Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by matthias »

Music Lover wrote:And no doubt, the filter is VERY important!
Actually the filter takes a higher position in the hierarchy than the speaker itself, that may be the reason that Fredrik prefers the Klangedangs to the 3677s.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by Music Lover »

matthias wrote:
Music Lover wrote:And no doubt, the filter is VERY important!
Actually the filter takes a higher position in the hierarchy than the speaker itself, that may be the reason that Fredrik prefers the Klangedangs to the 3677s.
Yes.
Also remember that Fredrik hasn't removed the 3677-filter and replaced the original internal cables with K400.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by lejonklou »

True, there's a lot more that can be done to the 3677's. They might beat the T1's with another filter, but yesterday I became convinced that T1 with Synkron or Referens are more musical than 3677. With the old SWH filters, I feel that 3677 are better.

The comparison is not super easy as their characters differ quite a bit. But in one aspect they are very similar: The drive units in T1 and in 3677 play as ONE. Very integrated and homogenic. When I close my eyes, I can't tell the drive units apart. That I can on almost all other loudspeakers and I find it very annoying. It's as if tiny errors in time and character prevents them from creating the illusion of real music. And then my foot stops tapping.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by matthias »

Fredrik,
sorry for the direct question:

Would you have time and interest to design a series filter like Synkron for the 3677?

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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by lejonklou »

matthias wrote:Fredrik,
sorry for the direct question:

Would you have time and interest to design a series filter like Synkron for the 3677?

Matt
Interest: Sure!
Time: Probably not
Thoughts: I don't think a series filter will work on 3677. The original filter is sharp (third order) and I don't know how to make a serial filter higher than second order (it becomes parallel filters with only the first LC shared in series, no?). A first or second order serial filter will pass a lot of low frequency information to the 3677 high frequency driver. I don't think it's up for it. And I think that all drive units to be used with serial filters need to be chosen with great care.
But: I'm not a speaker designer and am always happy to be corrected!
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by matthias »

Fredrik,
thank you.
Besides a new crossover what can be done to lift the musicality of the 3677 up to the niveau of the Klangedang or higher?
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by ThomasOK »

I'm not a speaker designer either. But my understanding is that Fredrik is correct about the need for special selection of drivers to use with first order crossovers. With such a gradual rolloff the drivers need to work cleanly and evenly for at least a couple of octaves past the crossover point. This is why so few loudspeakers use such filters.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by matthias »

ThomasOK wrote:This is why so few loudspeakers use such filters.
AFAIK, Vandersteens are using first order parallel filters. Only very few manufacturers are using series filters which in my understanding is the best principle for two way systems.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by mrco99 »

Having just placed an order on Synkron filters as an upgrade from SHW.
Excited to hear them!

Fredrik, did the Reference filters need more time to break-in?
And which speaker will remain..... Klangedang or 3677?
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by lejonklou »

mrco99 wrote:Fredrik, did the Reference filters need more time to break-in?
It's possible, but I don't know as I returned them. I have kept the Synkron filters, though.
mrco99 wrote:And which speaker will remain..... Klangedang or 3677?
Jajo visited me the other day. He started this whole thing with the 3677's, which he should have much praise for. He was sceptical that T1 could come anywhere near, but he left me very impressed. He said he'd never heard T1 sounding so good, every piece of music we played was immensely enjoyable.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by matthias »

lejonklou wrote: Jajo visited me the other day. He started this whole thing with the 3677's, which he should have much praise for. He was sceptical that T1 could come anywhere near, but he left me very impressed. He said he'd never heard T1 sounding so good, every piece of music we played was immensely enjoyable.
I have read Jajos excellent descriptions of 3677s here and on component.se.
What is his verdict on the comparison 3677 vs. Klangedang?

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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by lejonklou »

matthias wrote:What is his verdict on the comparison 3677 vs. Klangedang?
I'm not sure. He's only heard them with months in between. He'd probably need to compare them directly.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by matthias »

lejonklou wrote:
matthias wrote:What is his verdict on the comparison 3677 vs. Klangedang?
I'm not sure. He's only heard them with months in between. He'd probably need to compare them directly.
So there was no direct comparison at your place?
You and Jajo listened to Klangedangs only?

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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by lejonklou »

matthias wrote:So there was no direct comparison at your place?
You and Jajo listened to Klangedangs only?
Yes, we listened to Klångedangs only.

My pair of 3677 are being tested by a customer who normally uses Akudoriks.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by jewa »

Yesterday Anders at Tonläget held a mini musical evening where Klångedang w reference filters were compared to Klångedang with integrated synkron-filters on Majik 109 stands.

Lejonklou Boazu was used together with klimax LP12 and klimax DSM.

Reference filters sounded great, expensive and impressive. But the integrated, was soo musical and just played everything perfect, tough had a simpler sound. In my mind a clear winner, also looked a lot very ”clean” on the majik stands.

Anders, had with this new synkron-filters used an approach where the signal reached the speakers first, then fed to the filters. I can’t really explain in detail, I just found it played music crazy good. And it pitched quite a bit better than the reference. A little damping internally of the speaker had also been done to match the magic 109 stands.

I fully understand someone liking the sound of the reference filters, but with the synkron-filters you forget about the sound (it didn’t sound bad after all) and just keep listening. Is this what happens when you have full sound, soundstage, I don’t know? But the integrated synkron-filters just impressed in timing and pitch.

These are my impressions, there were some at the musical evening that prefered the reference filters. It’s OK!

Music played in AAB-testing:
DSM – Some early reggae, Agnes
LP12 – Sia, Madonna, Roxette, Michael Jackson, Lill Lindfors
Last edited by jewa on 2016-12-22 08:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by beck »

jewa wrote:Yesterday Anders at Tonläget held a mini musical evening where Klångedang w reference filters were compared to Klångedang with integrated synkron-filters on Majik 109 stands.

Lejonklou Boazu was used together with klimax LP12 and klimax DSM.

Reference filters sounded great, expensive and impressive. But the integrated, was soo musical and just played everything perfect, tough had a simpler sound. In my mind a clear winner, also looked a lot very ”clean” on the majik stands.

Anders, had with this new synkron-filters used an approach where the signal reached the speakers first, then fed to the filters. I can’t really explain in detail, I just found it played music crazy good. And it pitched quite a bit better than the reference. A little damping internally of the speaker had also been done to match the magic 109 stands.

I fully understand someone liking the sound of the reference filters, but with the synkron-filters you forget about the sound (it didn’t sound bad after all) and just keep listening. Is this what happens when you have full sound, soundstage, I don’t know? But the integrated synkron-filters just impressed in timing and pitch.

These are my impressions, there were some at the musical evening that prefered the reference filters. It’s OK!

Music played in AAB-testing:
DSM – Some early reggae, Agnes
LP12 – Sia, Madonna, Roxette, Lill Lindfors
Great writing! I will have to hear this speaker at some point. Your points make perfect sense to me and I would go for the synkron filters as well if I understand you correctly.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by matthias »

@jewa,
thanks for reporting.
If I understand correctly the Synkron filter is now INSIDE the speaker box?

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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by jewa »

Yes, synkron is inside the speaker. But there are still some tests being made, I am not sure if the exact options has been decided upon regarding stands/synkron/reference. I guess there will be an update on the Tonläget website in some time.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by maffe »

It was an interesting evening and not that easy to (for me) to make heads or tail of it.
The persons using the Referens once prefered the Referens version, maybe because it "plays like it should" due to having them at home?
For me it was not totally any clear winner. The Referens played more mature and refined then the T1i.
Desomond Dekker for excample made more sense on T1i for me.
The tonality of the speakers differed a little also, maybe the stands och dampening?
I would say that the T1i have great potential, and as they stand now perform great think no one there would say anything else. Think they need some more tuning and testing, best stand to use and so on.

It would have been nice to compare with the external Synkron filters think that would have made more sense since it´s the same filter used in T1i, but Anders didn´t have any Synkron filters ready to use.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by lejonklou »

Thank you for some very exciting reports!

I agree with Maffe. If you read my review earlier in the thread, I think that Synkron has some qualities that Referens doesn't. Synkron internal versus external is what I'm looking forward to hear. And if external wins, maybe Referens can be improved further?

One thing is for sure: If T1's are this good with internal filters and don't need their special stands, it's fantastic! I consider my T1's with external Synkron filters better than JBL 3677 with Ofil stands. But that could change, depending on what happens.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by matthias »

lejonklou wrote:But that could change, depending on what happens.
Fredrik,
do you have some secret upgrades for the 3677s?

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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by lejonklou »

matthias wrote:
lejonklou wrote:But that could change, depending on what happens.
Fredrik,
do you have some secret upgrades for the 3677s?

Matt
Sorry, no. Nothing secret. Only Ofil stands and internal wiring with Linn K400. Probably placing the filters externally, in their own box. But since T1i is so good, maybe it's not necessary?

I also suspect the filters can be improved, but so far I have nothing to report.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by Music Lover »

So you now have K400 internally in the 3677 Fredrik?

Some thoughts on T1 based on recent listening tests.
T1 with ref filters on the floor vs Akudorik - T1 is better but the filter positioning is VERY important.
You should have the filter on a good stand/rack to make the most out of the T1 (same goes for the 3677)

Based on numerous visits to different dealers hearing Katalyst feeding an analogue system, never getting a "this is good" experience, I heard Kalatyst/Boazu/T1i and finally...finally it was really good.
It was the first time since the Exakt introduction I got this experience at a dealer.

Without comparing T1i with T1, I can just say T1i is really really good.
However T1 lack the bass, dynamics and ability to playing loud, so it's all 3677 for me. And the 4645C just gel perfectly.

I can also say that (as stated before) that Akudorik is likely the most musical Linn speaker.
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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by matthias »

Music Lover wrote:However T1 lack the bass, dynamics and ability to playing loud, so it's all 3677 for me.
+1

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Re: Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

Post by maffe »

Music Lover wrote:<snip>
Some thoughts on T1 based on recent listening tests.
T1 with ref filters on the floor vs Akudorik - T1 is better but the filter positioning is VERY important.
You should have the filter on a good stand/rack to make the most out of the T1 (same goes for the 3677)<snip>
The filter/filters where T1´s downfall for me and Akudorik did perform really good!
I think that one day there will be T1i´s playing in a future home in front of me :)
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