Klångedang T1 - sensational loudspeakers!

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Erik
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Post by Erik »

lejonklou wrote: Why? What makes loudspeakers of quite different construction all sound like boxes with many drive units in them?
A very interesting question and even if I have been thinking a lot about it, I have no clear answer.
If I have to describe the T1 in one word, it would be homogeneous. There seems to be a seamless integration of the drivers and maybe that's one the secrets behind the natural and "unboxy" sound.

/Erik
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Post by lejonklou »

Erik wrote:homogeneous
Yes! That's a good word. I have used it in the past when describing how single wiring and single amping passive loudspeakers sound compared to multi wiring and multi amping. It might be even more appropriate here.

Just when I thought my T1's couldn't get any better, Anders (the constructor) announces that another revision is on the way. Retrofittable, of course. Small changes to damping inside cabinet and amount of sand in the column, plus a new type of inductor in the filter. Exciting, but not yet ready for release.
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Post by Azazello »

lejonklou wrote:
Erik wrote:homogeneous
Yes! That's a good word. I have used it in the past when describing how single wiring and single amping passive loudspeakers sound compared to multi wiring and multi amping. It might be even more appropriate here.

Just when I thought my T1's couldn't get any better, Anders (the constructor) announces that another revision is on the way. Retrofittable, of course. Small changes to damping inside cabinet and amount of sand in the column, plus a new type of inductor in the filter. Exciting, but not yet ready for release.
Not only that, but also a new mix of kitty litter from what I have heard? A very exiting trickle-down from the latest achievements in nanotechnology.

:’D
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Post by lejonklou »

Yes, it's correct that Anders, after having tried many types of sand and other damping materials, found a certain type of cat litter to be the best.

Cat litter is actually crushed dry mud and brands differ in grain size and density. In the latest version of the Klångedang T1 stands, two different types are used and a precise amount of each.
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Post by Charlie1 »

Purr-fect
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Post by ThomasOK »

Just make sure you don't let the kitties at it before it goes in the stand. Otherwise you may be engaging more than the auditory and visual senses when experiencing your speakers!
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Post by Azazello »

ThomasOK wrote:Just make sure you don't let the kitties at it before it goes in the stand. Otherwise you may be engaging more than the auditory and visual senses when experiencing your speakers!
Not to mention that it would completely destroy the meowdy!
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Post by Erik »

To hear is to believe!
It might seem crazy that different litter tunes the damping in a major way but it certainly does. I swapped litter in my stands yesterday without modifying the filters or the internal damping. The speakers transformed from fantastic to mediocre. I could never imagine such a big difference from that kind of mod.

Today I swapped back and now they sing again.

/Erik
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Post by Charlie1 »

ThomasOK wrote:Just make sure you don't let the kitties at it before it goes in the stand. Otherwise you may be engaging more than the auditory and visual senses when experiencing your speakers!
And make sure there's nothing else in there too:
Image

Actually Thomas, I think you've been working on your own upgrade: -
Image
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Whats the secret in Klångedang performance?

Post by magnuska »

Good question Fredrik!

If I may speculate a bit I think much of the sound comes from the musicality of the constructor himself. Many other loudspeaker companies are perhaps using measure instruments instead of a good ear?

After many years in the shop Anders has learnt the ability to quick hear differences between boxes and sources he is demonstrating. I´m constantly impressed by this when I visit the shop.
He has took his experiences from this and use it really well to be able to go forward in his development of the speaker and all other details . If we would know how much hours he has put in to this with trial and error and listening to and comparing all details to one another we would be even more grateful.

I´m not sure if Anders is playing an instrument himself but he has a very good ear. One could almost say that he has produced the finest instrument all by himself in Klångedang. ( And its getting better and better too)

Regards Magnus
Sonore Mr streamer/Teddy Powersupply/Didit DAC 212/ Teddy PR/MB100 Rega P 3/Slipsik Klångedang T1
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Post by lejonklou »

Erik wrote:To hear is to believe!
Indeed. I saw a movie tonight with my T1's driven by Mono's. I completely lost myself in the dialogue and soundtrack. If anyone would ask me afterwards what character the loudspeakers have, I wouldn't know what to say. I didn't hear any!
magnuska wrote:After many years in the shop Anders has learnt the ability to quick hear differences between boxes and sources he is demonstrating.
Yes, I've seen him in action as well and this is true. I firmly believe this is the number one skill to master before developing a HiFi product:
To quickly and accurately be able to tell better from worse, even when the differences are tiny.

There are hundreds of such tiny decisions to make in one single product. Most can be evaluated by ear - if you take the time to rig it. The moment you start relying on your calculations and skipping the practical tests, your product stops developing.
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Post by DoomHammer »

Heard the T1s last Saturday. The least I could say is that the sound was much bigger than you would think from their size. At the same time I was able to compare both versions of Tundra with an Akurate amp.

I have a lot of thinking to do now :)
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Post by jaybee »

Today I ordered a pair of Klångedang T1 in oak from Tonläget! I Listened to them with Linn Akurate DS and 2200. Also with a pair of Tundra Mono. Very nice. However, I will connect them to my Naim Unitiqute. Right now I have a pair of Audiovector Ki3 Super. I do have a small placement problem, I have to position them one meter from the rear wall. But we tried to move them quite far away from the rear wall at Tonläget. It still sounded great!
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Post by lejonklou »

jaybee wrote:Today I ordered a pair of Klångedang T1 in oak from Tonläget! I Listened to them with Linn Akurate DS and 2200. Also with a pair of Tundra Mono. Very nice.
Hi jaybee!

Please tell us more when you have received your T1:s!

I have just received the parts to upgrade the filters to the latest version; one inductor and three resistors are replaced in each filter box. This will be exciting. Last Wednesday we listened to the latest T1:s all evening and they are truly great with all types of music. Somehow I got the impression that they have matured and sound "bigger" than before. But I'll know for sure once I've performed the upgrade.
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Post by Efraim roots »

lejonklou wrote:I have a question for those of you who have listened to the Klångedang T1's: What is it that makes you, after listnening to T1's for a while, think that other speakers sound like "loudspeakers".

What I mean is: I have compared T1's at Tonläget with various expensive floorstanders. All of them sounded like a big box with many drive units. The T1's seem to lack that, you are instead instantly drawn into the song being played.

At home it's the same thing. Used to have 109's (marvellous speakers for the money) and still have 212's (detailed, analytical and musical). They both sound very "there are loudspeakers playing in that room" when heard from a distance. The T1's don't sound like that at all.

Why? What makes loudspeakers of quite different construction all sound like boxes with many drive units in them?
Isn't it quite simply the crossover that could explain that?

I've been listening to them quite a few times at Tonläget and I think I know what you mean. I was surprised when I tried the Naim Ovator S-400 at home and found them to have the same quality, and they also have a very different crossover arrangement because of the BMR element that uses a crossover point at 700Hz, the sound become very homogeneous or seamless, which also seems to affect the musicality of the speaker a lot, the effect in these designs is that the musical flow become very coherent and just better than most other speakers. I also listened to the more traditional and cheaper crossover Anders has made for Klångedang and you certainly lose that special seamless sound. Another speaker that I regard very good and also have qualities that could be described this way is the Amphion Helium510 which also has a lower crossover point at 1600Hz, when you compare these to a lot of other speakers you will hear that the other lose the homogeneous sound and musical flow, they'll sound more like "a box with many drive units". That's why I'm saying it is not impossible the Amphions are better than Majik 109s (a bit unlikely though).
the players of instruments shall be there..
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Post by matthias »

One of the secrets of the Klangedangs is their series crossover. Nearly all other speakers (inclusive Ovator 400) and all that allow biwiring or triwiring have a parallel crossover. The cheaper Klangedang crossover you are referring to is a parallel type.

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Post by lejonklou »

You may be right about the series filter having that effect, Matthias. I haven't heard the cheap parallel crossover for Klångedang T1 yet, but people tell me they make them sound more "separated" and less musical.

I just upgraded my T1's to the latest version. Some components are replaced in the filter and the cabinet's damping is changed a tiny bit. I will return with a report later, but so far I like what I hear!
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Post by Efraim roots »

matthias wrote:One of the secrets of the Klangedangs is their series crossover. Nearly all other speakers (inclusive Ovator 400) and all that allow biwiring or triwiring have a parallel crossover. The cheaper Klangedang crossover you are referring to is a parallel type.

Matt
Yes I'm aware of the difference in crossovers, but my point with the other examples is that when you remove the crossover point from the most sensitive frequencies you may also get that kind of effect. Klångedangs solve it by having a serial crossover, Naim in their own way and Amphions by theirs.

Maybe you could explain the difference between serial and paralell crossover? I don't really have the technical skills, I'm just listening.. and maybe read the official papers of the designs..
the players of instruments shall be there..
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Post by matthias »

I am a great "fanboy" of series crossovers and prefer this concept to active speakers. Let me try a simple explanation: In a series crossover the HF and LF drivers are connected in a row. The signal is send first to the HF, the HF picks its part of the signal and the rest of the signal is send to the LF driver. Anders talks on klangedang.se, that with a series crossover "nothing is falling between two stools". You find a lot of informations on klangedang.se or google on "constant voltage crossover".

Matt
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Post by magnuska »

lejonklou wrote:
jaybee wrote:Today I ordered a pair of Klångedang T1 in oak from Tonläget! I Listened to them with Linn Akurate DS and 2200. Also with a pair of Tundra Mono. Very nice.
Hi jaybee!

Please tell us more when you have received your T1:s!

I have just received the parts to upgrade the filters to the latest version; one inductor and three resistors are replaced in each filter box. This will be exciting. Last Wednesday we listened to the latest T1:s all evening and they are truly great with all types of music. Somehow I got the impression that they have matured and sound "bigger" than before. But I'll know for sure once I've performed the upgrade.
Hi Fredrik, I can confirm that the latest upgrade is worthwile.
I had to experiment with the setup and have now found that the speakers in my room sounds best around 30 cm from the wall. I can`t say if this was the best distance from the beginning but I suspect that I
had not evaluated this distance enough! Anyway its essential to try this for every Klångedang installation.

Magnus
Sonore Mr streamer/Teddy Powersupply/Didit DAC 212/ Teddy PR/MB100 Rega P 3/Slipsik Klångedang T1
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Post by lejonklou »

matthias wrote:... or google on "constant voltage crossover".
??
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Post by matthias »

lejonklou wrote:
matthias wrote:... or google on "constant voltage crossover".
??
....the same as "series crossover"

Matt
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Post by clasch66 »

lejonklou wrote:Yes, it's correct that Anders, after having tried many types of sand and other damping materials, found a certain type of cat litter to be the best.
Just (a little late) discovered this post of Fredrik and I have to say that's what my speaker stands are filled with since years with by far the best results!

Cheers Claus
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Post by lejonklou »

magnuska wrote:Anyway its essential to try this for every Klångedang installation.
This is essential for ALL loudspeaker installations!

My pair is best at 180 mm from rear wall, no toe in and 1558 mm apart. The upgrade has definitely made them sound bigger. I like it! I will recheck my positions soon.
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Post by magnuska »

lejonklou wrote:
magnuska wrote:Anyway its essential to try this for every Klångedang installation.
This is essential for ALL loudspeaker installations!

My pair is best at 180 mm from rear wall, no toe in and 1558 mm apart. The upgrade has definitely made them sound bigger. I like it! I will recheck my positions soon.
Yes its essential for all speakers.
Correction, my speakers are 270 mm from the backwall and 1800 mm apart.

Would be interesting to hear how your listeningroom looks like in terms of size and if you have done some acoustic treatment to it apart from "normal" furnitures. If you have covered this before in another thread I apologise.

Magnus
Sonore Mr streamer/Teddy Powersupply/Didit DAC 212/ Teddy PR/MB100 Rega P 3/Slipsik Klångedang T1
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