Hi All,
Just interested in everyone's opinion on the following. It was fairly clear from Topica.
On the end of Akurate cd - Kinos - KK tunebox - "200" chakra active amps. Would you prefer Keltiks or Espeks?
I have heard Espeks a number of times and like them, not heard Keltiks.
Opinions and thoughts gratefully received!
Thanks.
steve.
Which speakers.
Moderator: Staff
Keltiks, no question! The Espeks are fine speakers - especially Aktiv - but they don't come close to the Keltiks.
In addition, the comparison you speak of is unlikely as it will be nearly impossible to find Klimax crossovers for the Espeks. While Linn had the Klimax Tunebox for the Espeks available the cost of those crossovers was high enough (about $9500US a pair) that very few would consider putting that kind of money into them for Espeks. The Keltiks, on the other hand, were Linn's top speaker for many years until the Komri came out and they were still manufactured for a while after that. There are a fair number of owners of Keltiks who upgraded to Klimax Tuneboxes in order to maximize their performance so you do see them from time to time. And the prices on both the Keltiks and the Klimax crossovers for them are ridiculously low for how good a speaker they are. I have never seen a pair of Espek Klimax Tuneboxes - either in person or used on the web so you are very unlikely to find any. And the crossovers are not interchangeable. Each Klimax Tunebox is designed for a specific speaker and they are not readily convertible to other models.
There is one upgrade I would recommend for the Keltiks and that is the replacement of the original tweeter with the Espek tweeter. It is much smoother and yet is more extended and detailed. It fits the same hole and works with the same bolts so it is a simple replacement. You just have to adjust the crossover for the tweeter up one notch. It does push the grill out a little bit but that is a small price to pay for the improved performance. And all the new 3K Array speakers push out the grill cloth so it's in keeping with the new style. :)
In addition, the comparison you speak of is unlikely as it will be nearly impossible to find Klimax crossovers for the Espeks. While Linn had the Klimax Tunebox for the Espeks available the cost of those crossovers was high enough (about $9500US a pair) that very few would consider putting that kind of money into them for Espeks. The Keltiks, on the other hand, were Linn's top speaker for many years until the Komri came out and they were still manufactured for a while after that. There are a fair number of owners of Keltiks who upgraded to Klimax Tuneboxes in order to maximize their performance so you do see them from time to time. And the prices on both the Keltiks and the Klimax crossovers for them are ridiculously low for how good a speaker they are. I have never seen a pair of Espek Klimax Tuneboxes - either in person or used on the web so you are very unlikely to find any. And the crossovers are not interchangeable. Each Klimax Tunebox is designed for a specific speaker and they are not readily convertible to other models.
There is one upgrade I would recommend for the Keltiks and that is the replacement of the original tweeter with the Espek tweeter. It is much smoother and yet is more extended and detailed. It fits the same hole and works with the same bolts so it is a simple replacement. You just have to adjust the crossover for the tweeter up one notch. It does push the grill out a little bit but that is a small price to pay for the improved performance. And all the new 3K Array speakers push out the grill cloth so it's in keeping with the new style. :)
Thomas,
Thanks for that. I have a friend who would sell me his Espek Klimax TB's if I wanted them. BUT, in either case, from what you say the Keltiks are superior - much the same view was expressed by one or two on Topica.
Im going down to have a look at a pair of Keltiks next week end. My thoughts were to run them with KK TB's & 2 x 4200. Any worries about the "old" speakers and new Linn amps?
The idea of the keltiks fits with my idea for the surround system. Believe it or not I have one Brik! which I want to run on the centre channel - snaxo + 6100 running fully active. With 2 sekrits(eventually 4) running active for 7.1 with the Kinos.
The reason Im asking the question is Im also in the same financial territory here for ex dem 320A's, 242's etc.
Great fun though!
steve.
Thanks for that. I have a friend who would sell me his Espek Klimax TB's if I wanted them. BUT, in either case, from what you say the Keltiks are superior - much the same view was expressed by one or two on Topica.
Im going down to have a look at a pair of Keltiks next week end. My thoughts were to run them with KK TB's & 2 x 4200. Any worries about the "old" speakers and new Linn amps?
The idea of the keltiks fits with my idea for the surround system. Believe it or not I have one Brik! which I want to run on the centre channel - snaxo + 6100 running fully active. With 2 sekrits(eventually 4) running active for 7.1 with the Kinos.
The reason Im asking the question is Im also in the same financial territory here for ex dem 320A's, 242's etc.
Great fun though!
steve.
I have no problem at all with the idea of running the Keltiks with the Chakra 200s - they work well with Klimaxes so why not Chakras? I used to have a setup with Isobariks Aktiv with three 2250s and it was quite a bit superior to four LK280/Sparks. And I consider LK280/Sparks to be pretty close to Klouts.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Last edited by ThomasOK on 2007-08-30 20:23, edited 1 time in total.
Thomas,
And I must say having had active klouts with Ninkas, the 200 active chakras were another big step forward!
Its all sounding quite promising! Im thinking that if they are still available in a weeks time, Ill give them a try with the set up described.
Akurate - Kinos - Klimax TB,s - 4200's - Keltiks.
The completion of the surround can wait for a later date.
Last question Thomas, as Linn are now producing chakra active cards for keltiks. Any view, once again, which would produce the best result. Klimax because the Klimax range are always Linns best products or the new chakra cards, simply because they are newer!!
cheers
Steve.
And I must say having had active klouts with Ninkas, the 200 active chakras were another big step forward!
Its all sounding quite promising! Im thinking that if they are still available in a weeks time, Ill give them a try with the set up described.
Akurate - Kinos - Klimax TB,s - 4200's - Keltiks.
The completion of the surround can wait for a later date.
Last question Thomas, as Linn are now producing chakra active cards for keltiks. Any view, once again, which would produce the best result. Klimax because the Klimax range are always Linns best products or the new chakra cards, simply because they are newer!!
cheers
Steve.
I have not actually heard the comparison but my bet would be that the Klimax Tuneboxes for the Keltiks would outperform the Chakra cards. Newer does not always mean better - all the Chakra designs are fairly new but none of them are as musical as the Klimax Solo which is a strictly bi-polar design and significantly older. The Klimax components are designed as Linn's ultimate performance components and are unlikely to be outperformed until Linn comes out with a replacement or update.
Also the Klimax Tunebox has a higher degree of adjustability than the Chakra Aktiv cards do which I feel is more useful.
Let us know what you think once you get a chance to hear the Keltiks.
Also the Klimax Tunebox has a higher degree of adjustability than the Chakra Aktiv cards do which I feel is more useful.
Let us know what you think once you get a chance to hear the Keltiks.
This sounds like a great system, poppop!
My vote goes to the Keltiks before the Espeks. Both demand a careful installation in my experience, but when you get the Keltiks right they will most likely stun you with such good eIectronics feeding them.
I am also quite certain the Klimax crossovers will perform better than the Chakra cards.
My vote goes to the Keltiks before the Espeks. Both demand a careful installation in my experience, but when you get the Keltiks right they will most likely stun you with such good eIectronics feeding them.
I am also quite certain the Klimax crossovers will perform better than the Chakra cards.
I agree with above! I own a pair of Keltiks myself and made the comparison with Espeks several times and there were no question which speakers I preferred!
I run the Keltiks with 4 Klouts and if/when it's time to upgrade the amps I will definitely go for the Akurate X200!
The Keltiks are a bit demanding when it comes to positioning, but if you give it some time and love or consult a good dealer, they will sound amazing! As Fredrik says, they need good electronics feeding them, but that's definitely not a problem with your setup!
I would also recommend the tweeter replacement! It's rather cheap, the "dent" in the grill is minor and the improvement is quite big!
Good luck!
I run the Keltiks with 4 Klouts and if/when it's time to upgrade the amps I will definitely go for the Akurate X200!
The Keltiks are a bit demanding when it comes to positioning, but if you give it some time and love or consult a good dealer, they will sound amazing! As Fredrik says, they need good electronics feeding them, but that's definitely not a problem with your setup!
I would also recommend the tweeter replacement! It's rather cheap, the "dent" in the grill is minor and the improvement is quite big!
Good luck!
Thanks Pediatrik.
The klimax XO's are on their way! Im negotiating the purchase of the Keltiks - one pair is with a dealer, the other is a private sale.
Yes, as suggested I will change the tweeters. Both pairs have the originals.
Im happy to play with the positioning of the speakers - its one of the enjoyable parts! Just as a guide, and I know it will be room dependent. Where have you ended up postioning your keltiks? Both in terms of width and distance from the back wall?
As I mentioned above I have a "Brik" that I want to use as a centre channel. - Ill need to save up for the amp etc, so it will be a little while. But I wonderd if there were any views on the best way to drive it? I know snaxos pop up now and again on Ebay etc. and I really thought it would be a great idea to use it for one speaker instead of 2!? - 3 channels on the inner bass and top mid/tweet., 3 channels on the outer bass mid/tweet.
All fired through a 6100? Rounded off with a 4100 active on the rear sekrits?
Other ideas wellcome!
Thanks again
Steve.
The klimax XO's are on their way! Im negotiating the purchase of the Keltiks - one pair is with a dealer, the other is a private sale.
Yes, as suggested I will change the tweeters. Both pairs have the originals.
Im happy to play with the positioning of the speakers - its one of the enjoyable parts! Just as a guide, and I know it will be room dependent. Where have you ended up postioning your keltiks? Both in terms of width and distance from the back wall?
As I mentioned above I have a "Brik" that I want to use as a centre channel. - Ill need to save up for the amp etc, so it will be a little while. But I wonderd if there were any views on the best way to drive it? I know snaxos pop up now and again on Ebay etc. and I really thought it would be a great idea to use it for one speaker instead of 2!? - 3 channels on the inner bass and top mid/tweet., 3 channels on the outer bass mid/tweet.
All fired through a 6100? Rounded off with a 4100 active on the rear sekrits?
Other ideas wellcome!
Thanks again
Steve.
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M.L.
Id never considered that! Given the amount of "positives" that this system(once I pull all the parts together) is producing! Once I try the 4200's and the system "rocks" the way most are suggesting - I guess there is no reason not to try and "tradeup" - I remember hearing Komris with 8 solos!!!!???? - they were all fixed to the wall in a column, and looked like a radiator.
Steve.
Id never considered that! Given the amount of "positives" that this system(once I pull all the parts together) is producing! Once I try the 4200's and the system "rocks" the way most are suggesting - I guess there is no reason not to try and "tradeup" - I remember hearing Komris with 8 solos!!!!???? - they were all fixed to the wall in a column, and looked like a radiator.
Steve.
Interesting thoughts there Steve. I always wondered what the Isobariks would sound like with six amplifiers each. I ran mine with four and was quite impressed with the improvement of the fourth amplifier on the inner woofer. I never did the work to try them with six but I'm sure you could drive yourself crazy playing around with different level settings for the front and top tweeters.
Depending on your system and how much movie vs. music listening you do I might have to go along with Music Lover and say forget the Isobarik center. I now have my Isos passive in the front of my home theater and I run phantom center channel. I prefer it over using any center channel I've tried (I also prefer it in other setups even over a "matched" center). We only normally have three of us watching movies, rarely four, and nobody has noticed any problem from not having a center channel.
If you do go Isobarik center I would recommend listening to the Majik x100 amp before buying one - I'm not sure it is up to driving them. The 5125 was not recommended for Keltiks or Isobariks as they are both difficult speakers to drive. I believe the Majik (Chakra) x100 amps may have the same problem.
Congrats on the Klimax crossovers and Keltiks. The last pair I set up ended up about 250mm from the back wall and about 350mm from the side walls both measured from the nearest corner of the cabinet. They had minimal toe in of about 20mm or less and the top should be level.
Depending on your system and how much movie vs. music listening you do I might have to go along with Music Lover and say forget the Isobarik center. I now have my Isos passive in the front of my home theater and I run phantom center channel. I prefer it over using any center channel I've tried (I also prefer it in other setups even over a "matched" center). We only normally have three of us watching movies, rarely four, and nobody has noticed any problem from not having a center channel.
If you do go Isobarik center I would recommend listening to the Majik x100 amp before buying one - I'm not sure it is up to driving them. The 5125 was not recommended for Keltiks or Isobariks as they are both difficult speakers to drive. I believe the Majik (Chakra) x100 amps may have the same problem.
Congrats on the Klimax crossovers and Keltiks. The last pair I set up ended up about 250mm from the back wall and about 350mm from the side walls both measured from the nearest corner of the cabinet. They had minimal toe in of about 20mm or less and the top should be level.
Thanks again.
So it may be better to try 2200(?) passive - though I reckon I should replace the XO, it/they certainly seem original. Or as you suggest forget it altogether! Its one for the future to play with, as I say its L & R first.
Thomas, so you feel that even 100 into each individual speaker with an active Xo may still not perform particularly well with a brik.
However, "he who hesitates" etc - I phoned the dealer today to buy the Keltiks from him - I was going to go next week end for a listen/collection. However, Ive decided I want to go for them, and yes, they had GONE! LOL!
Still negotiating a private sale, so fingers crossed. Unless anyone wants to negotiate the sale of a cherry or rosewood pair!!? The good news is, the Klimax Xo's are in the post!
steve.
So it may be better to try 2200(?) passive - though I reckon I should replace the XO, it/they certainly seem original. Or as you suggest forget it altogether! Its one for the future to play with, as I say its L & R first.
Thomas, so you feel that even 100 into each individual speaker with an active Xo may still not perform particularly well with a brik.
However, "he who hesitates" etc - I phoned the dealer today to buy the Keltiks from him - I was going to go next week end for a listen/collection. However, Ive decided I want to go for them, and yes, they had GONE! LOL!
Still negotiating a private sale, so fingers crossed. Unless anyone wants to negotiate the sale of a cherry or rosewood pair!!? The good news is, the Klimax Xo's are in the post!
steve.
Well I am now the proud owner of 1999 Keltik Klimax XO's!
There are of course "gains" beside the bass/mid/treble. I cant find any manuals on Linn site regarding default settings. I do recall with chakras(?) that default was 3 clicks after "off", if that makes sense.
Also the setting on the balanced/unbalanced "inputs" look to be in different postions.
As they all look to possibly be in different settings Id much appreciate any advice about how to set everything to default, so I can work from there. 1999 Keltiks hopefully arrive next week!
thanks
Steve.
There are of course "gains" beside the bass/mid/treble. I cant find any manuals on Linn site regarding default settings. I do recall with chakras(?) that default was 3 clicks after "off", if that makes sense.
Also the setting on the balanced/unbalanced "inputs" look to be in different postions.
As they all look to possibly be in different settings Id much appreciate any advice about how to set everything to default, so I can work from there. 1999 Keltiks hopefully arrive next week!
thanks
Steve.
Positioning is definetely room-dependent Steve! My Keltiks are 220 mm from back wall and 1150 mm from nearest side wall, with 10 mm toe-in. The room is approx 32 sqm. Initially the speakers ended up approx 400 mm from back wall, but after re-tuning I found the closer position more tuneful. I'm quite convinced though that a professional tuning (i.e. by Mr Lejonklou) would make those final pieces fall into place. Unfortunately (?) he's obviously been busy with his newest RIAA...poppop wrote:Where have you ended up postioning your keltiks?
Congratulations on the Klimax XO:s, buy the way! They are supposed to be GREAT!
Thanks for that Pediatrik. Im hoping that the Keltiks will arrive next week! Just sorting out a safe method of transport! Also just about to place an order for the "ninka" tweets. Started making the 8 short IC's for the XO to the Power amps! It would be so much easier if I just went to Currys and bought a Technics system!! LOL.
I also got a very helpful assist from Linn customer services. I now know there are 2 "mute" clicks on the gain settings on switch postions 8&9.
S0, for example on the bass: 8 - mute, 9 - mute, 0 - -3Db, 1 - -2Db, 2 - -1 Db, 3 - 0 Db. - DEFAULT!! LOL. So I can now start all the listening with everything "flat".
Unfortunately as the budget is growing I think it may be a while before I can do all the surround speakers. So I will have to live with 2 channel for a little while yet!
I have had a Klimax Kontrol which I borrowed from a friend for a couple of days. I noted then, and repeat now, that even if this gear(klimax) didnt sound any good the way it feels and is engineered is VERY impressive and so understated!
Steve.
I also got a very helpful assist from Linn customer services. I now know there are 2 "mute" clicks on the gain settings on switch postions 8&9.
S0, for example on the bass: 8 - mute, 9 - mute, 0 - -3Db, 1 - -2Db, 2 - -1 Db, 3 - 0 Db. - DEFAULT!! LOL. So I can now start all the listening with everything "flat".
Unfortunately as the budget is growing I think it may be a while before I can do all the surround speakers. So I will have to live with 2 channel for a little while yet!
I have had a Klimax Kontrol which I borrowed from a friend for a couple of days. I noted then, and repeat now, that even if this gear(klimax) didnt sound any good the way it feels and is engineered is VERY impressive and so understated!
Steve.
Hi All,
Given all the helpful advice, just wanted to give you an update! Very nearly there! The Keltiks will arrive on Wednesday evening.
Kinos and 2 new 4200.'s are in place. Ive had made 4 of the Linn silver ICs for XO to power amps.- 4 to go! I am soldering the silver bananas to the k400. - 8 still to do!
Ive placed the order with Linn for the upgrade tweets & mids.
While Ive been waiting for everything to arrive I also now have a 6mm T&E spur for all things Hi Fi! 10mm was just too difficult to double up in the sockets!
Listening impressions I hope to give next week end.
Thanks.
Steve.
Given all the helpful advice, just wanted to give you an update! Very nearly there! The Keltiks will arrive on Wednesday evening.
Kinos and 2 new 4200.'s are in place. Ive had made 4 of the Linn silver ICs for XO to power amps.- 4 to go! I am soldering the silver bananas to the k400. - 8 still to do!
Ive placed the order with Linn for the upgrade tweets & mids.
While Ive been waiting for everything to arrive I also now have a 6mm T&E spur for all things Hi Fi! 10mm was just too difficult to double up in the sockets!
Listening impressions I hope to give next week end.
Thanks.
Steve.
Hi Fredrik,
I have had the 6mm twin and earth spur installed to take the place of the 2.5mm "ring". From what I have read I would expect this to sound better!!?? Anyway, I have an electrician friend who was happy to assist and advise.
It is connected via an 8amp RCD(do I mean that?) to the "fuse box". 8 amps is just about enough provided I dont switch on everything all at once! - power amps first, then cd, dvd, kinos and XO's.
The other thing I would like to persue with you Frederik would be the soldering we have discussed before? IF this is a system I keep for a while, Im still very interested in sending ALL my made up leads to be soldered in a controlled environment? Id like to try this system for about 3 months first.
Cheers
Steve.
I have had the 6mm twin and earth spur installed to take the place of the 2.5mm "ring". From what I have read I would expect this to sound better!!?? Anyway, I have an electrician friend who was happy to assist and advise.
It is connected via an 8amp RCD(do I mean that?) to the "fuse box". 8 amps is just about enough provided I dont switch on everything all at once! - power amps first, then cd, dvd, kinos and XO's.
The other thing I would like to persue with you Frederik would be the soldering we have discussed before? IF this is a system I keep for a while, Im still very interested in sending ALL my made up leads to be soldered in a controlled environment? Id like to try this system for about 3 months first.
Cheers
Steve.
I don't understand T&E or RCD, probably because they concern the electrical installation and both brands and the design of the system differs from here... and I don't really know anything about UK or US electrical systems.
In any case, please try to compare any change you do to the electrical system! I have encountered quite a few fancy installations specifically for the hifi system that sounded clearly worse than the standard jack in the wall. One rule seems to be that any parts that are said to be of "hifi grade" should be avoided because they often perform much worse than standard, high capacity parts...
Regarding the cables, I agree you should let the system play for a couple of months. It will take almost 4 months before the soldering joints you just made have settled sound-wise. Once they are fully broken in, I'd be happy to assist with experiments.
In any case, please try to compare any change you do to the electrical system! I have encountered quite a few fancy installations specifically for the hifi system that sounded clearly worse than the standard jack in the wall. One rule seems to be that any parts that are said to be of "hifi grade" should be avoided because they often perform much worse than standard, high capacity parts...
Regarding the cables, I agree you should let the system play for a couple of months. It will take almost 4 months before the soldering joints you just made have settled sound-wise. Once they are fully broken in, I'd be happy to assist with experiments.
Fredrik,
The 6mm electrical cable just replaces the "normal" sized cable(2.5mm) used for general wall plug circuits. Also instead of the installation being a "ring" ie returning to the fusebox, its just a length which doesnt return!
6mm cable is often used for showers and occasionally cookers, though much more commonly 10mm is now used. Nothing fancy about the cable, just normal house installation stuff.
The RCD is just the "trip" at the fusebox - the protection if there is a blip in the circuit.
Steve.
The 6mm electrical cable just replaces the "normal" sized cable(2.5mm) used for general wall plug circuits. Also instead of the installation being a "ring" ie returning to the fusebox, its just a length which doesnt return!
6mm cable is often used for showers and occasionally cookers, though much more commonly 10mm is now used. Nothing fancy about the cable, just normal house installation stuff.
The RCD is just the "trip" at the fusebox - the protection if there is a blip in the circuit.
Steve.
Could you explain this in a little more detail, you mean you only have one cable running from the fusebox? I thought you always needed (at least) two ("fas" and "nolla" in Swedish, don't know the correct English words).lejonklou wrote:That is good, better than a ring.poppop wrote:instead of the installation being a "ring" ie returning to the fusebox, its just a length which doesnt return
I'm about to run new cabling in my own apartment, som I'm eager to get any good information.
I guess RCD is a "jordfelsbrytare" in Swedish? Definitely good for safety, but I wonder if they don't have a sound worsening potential?