Klimax DS

Post by **lejonklou** » 2007-08-21 18:22

This is a thread to discuss Linn's coming digital source. We don't know all the details yet, but there is a lot of buzz on the net.

Until we know all the facts - what are your main wishes?

After it has been launched - was it what you hoped for?

And who gets to be the first to hear it? :)

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2007-08-21 22:05

lejonklou wrote: what are your main wishes?

EASY!
- Better redbook CD reproduction than vinyl on a top spec LP12 to same price as Unidisk 1.1.
- Abillity to upgrade the unit to support present/comming multichannel formats (and to enhance performance)
- "LK similar" design. Black, mean and unique! (also save cost)
- delivery next month
- NO bugs (well, I can accept bugs if performance is as defined :mrgreen: )

and...an unexpected bonus on September salary 8)

I care less how Linn actually made it work, I can even paint the CD's green, keep them in the fridge and perform rain dances - it it just make the player performing better, hehe :D

BUT HWO HAVE FACTS ON THIS PLAYER?
Please use PM if needed

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2007-08-21 22:46

Well, now that we've gotten the first set of unrealistic wishes :) (LK box design, better than a top spec LP12?) lets see what I can come up with.

First off I've been told to expect a major announcement from Linn at the CEDIA show in mid-September. It is believed they will bring out a Klimax piece that is essentially an extremely high performance DAC with network connection and the ability to control the playback of music stored on PCs and NAS devices. Rumor has it that the sound quality will exceed ANY digital device Linn has made (and by extrapolation, that anyone else has made).

What I expect to see:

A unit that looks like a Klimax Kontrol
A price similar to a Klimax Kontrol
The same crummy remote as the Klimax Kontrol (and most other Linn products)
An exceptional DAC that can decode at least 24 bit/96 kHz signals and possibly 192kHz.
Additional proprietary processing of the digital signal before it gets to the DAC to get the maximum possible amount of information from the data stream
A 100BaseT or Gigibit Ethernet connection

What I would like to see:

AES/EBU, S/PDIF, Coax and USB connections.
Wiriless communication supporting 802.11n.
An analog input with an onboard ADC that allows conversion of analog sources - read VINYL - to high-quality digital formats that could be sent to the computer for storage and retreival.
The ability to control and decode internet radio.
A better remote control.

What I would like to see but is very unlikely:

A price closer to the Akurate CD.
A really outstanding remote control. (Do you detect a trend here?)
High quality built-in volume control so it can be used directly into power amps of active speakers.
A $3000 version that is almost as good in an LK series case. :)

So let's see what Linn delivers!

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2007-08-21 22:54

Almost forgot - a kool name!

This rules out any of the following:

Klimax Numerik (although it wouldn't be TOO bad)
Klimax Kivor
Klimax Tuneboks :(
Klimax Knekt
Klimax DAK

I could handle Klimax Konverter but would like something much more powerful like Klout or Klimax itself.

How about Klimax Kream, or would that bring up too many bad images?

OK, I'll leave you with this: Klimax Konduktor (although it is probably reserved for the $12,000 interconnects and matching speaker cables).

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2007-08-22 08:43

Klimax case, prize similar to KK, Stereo only, CD & SACD.

But as always, Linn will release something completely different. :mrgreen:

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2007-08-22 10:01

ThomasOK wrote:Almost forgot - a kool name!

What about Klimax Kalculate?

Anyone that know if the unit has a CD transport and HD, or if it's just a DAC, sorry DAK?

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2007-08-22 17:58

Music Lover wrote:
ThomasOK wrote:Almost forgot - a kool name!
What about Klimax Kalculate?

Anyone that know if the unit has a CD transport and HD, or if it's just a DAC, sorry DAK?

That's not a bad name, or maybe Klimax Krunch (for number crunching).

According to what I've heard there will be no moving parts in this unit. I don't know whether Linn still plans a CD12 replacement or if this is their future direction for digital music sources.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2007-08-27 18:27

http://www.audiophile.no/Visnyhet.asp?Id=181

Starts in Norweigan, but with Linn's press release in English below.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2007-08-31 13:37

Prices and technical data on the Akurate Music Server:

http://www.audiophile.no/Visnyhet.asp?Id=182

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2007-09-01 06:09

Information from CEDIA Expo, to start next week.
Seems based on Linn press release.
http://www.cepro.com/article/worldwide_ ... us_2007/K3

Anyone that read October HIFI World magazine on sale since a few days ?
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/currentish.html

bbyte · Post by **bbyte** » 2007-09-07 11:36

Beautiful thing that DS. But old' Sondek CD12 is all what I still dream about...

Maybe after DS they start thinking about real Sondek HD12?
Or Akurate CD was the last word in SACD team?

Moomintroll · Post by **Moomintroll** » 2007-09-07 13:30

I've seen the Hifi World review - best digital source they've heard. Retail price just under 10K GBP if I remember. As much as I would love one, I think I'll be investigating a Squeezebox first, until I've built up a music collection of 24bit recordings.

'Troll

bbyte · Post by **bbyte** » 2007-09-07 18:42

I hope that more and more internet music stores will offer flac loseless files without bloody drm... not only Linn Records.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2007-09-07 20:29

bbyte wrote:Beautiful thing that DS. But old' Sondek CD12 is all what I still dream about...

Maybe after DS they start thinking about real Sondek HD12?
Or Akurate CD was the last word in SACD team?

Beautiful, yes - but is it useable? I have to wonder how you can possibly view song information on that display. I have to squint to read the 2 digit volume display from across the room on the Klimax Kontrol and 6 digits are all that are allowed for source names. How can that small a display be effectively used for playlist searching? Linn needs to take a close look at the Squeezebox.

As to a Sondek CD12 replacement, the Klimax DS announcement makes me wonder if Linn is feels that the market is moving away from physical media altogether? Seeing as Apple's itunes is now the third largest seller of music in the US this could be the way things are going. Have we seen the last of the reference level transport mechanisms?

bbyte · Post by **bbyte** » 2007-09-07 21:22

Maybe DS has video out, but the better option is to control it with Kinik if possible...

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2007-09-07 22:06

ThomasOK wrote: Have we seen the last of the reference level transport mechanisms?

Yes, and I'm glad that Linn understood that the future is downloading!

seanhinde · Post by **seanhinde** » 2007-09-08 15:29

The article in HiFi World reveals a few more details about the DS system.

Linn are relying on the 3rd party Twonky media server software. From a look at the Twonky homepage it seems that it will be possible to use many of the standard jukebox packages to control what is being played and create playlists etc.

It says that the supplied remote can be used to control previously created playlists, which suggests that there will be little need to read the small KlimaxKontrol style screen on the front of the KlimaxKontrol looking box.

Linn also supply their own PC software to act as a "GUI".

Price is listed at GBP 9600

bbyte · Post by **bbyte** » 2007-09-08 16:02

If it as good as CD12 it's a really new digital age.

Another excellent idea. Competors shall fear. :mrgreen:
Like Classik Movie, than Naim all-in-one. Linn digital player (without harddisk) where you can use NAS drive, and Naim & Arcam servers with limited possibilities of storage. :)

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2007-09-08 17:08

bbyte wrote:Maybe DS has video out, but the better option is to control it with Kinik if possible...

Nobody has mentioned a video out but maybe Linn has a remote control with a display panel to view playlists - that would be a great move. Kinik control would also make sense but if that is the only real way to control it Linn should include a pre-configured PDA.

We'll all know the real story soon so I'm going to stop speculating.

seanhinde · Post by **seanhinde** » 2007-09-08 20:24

The HiFi World article mentions that the Linn control software can run on an Ultra Mobile PC, and suggests that one of these with a touchscreen could be used as a remote.

bbyte · Post by **bbyte** » 2007-09-10 15:28

http://blog.stereophile.com/cedia2007/090809klimax

Post by **lejonklou** » 2007-09-13 19:20

I listened to it today. Pretty impressive...

There was no CD12 around but that wasn't really necessary - I felt completely sure that the DS is much better.

I can't really see the point of the tiny display, though. Today it indicated the time of the track being played, nothing else.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2007-09-13 20:25

I received an update from my co-workers who saw and heard it at the CEDIA show. Sonically it is said to be excellent - Linn took a CD, ripped it to a stock PC and compared the tracks decoded by the Klimax DS to the same CD played on a CD12. All who heard it felt that there was a substantial and musically important improvement when going through the DS. They also heard a downloaded "Studio Master" track from the Linn Records website and that was better yet.

As to the functionality, it does not appear to score as well there. It can currently only decode FLAC and WAV files. It is not compatible with iTunes ot MP3 files and does not handle internet radio. While some or all of these capabilities may be added later through software upgrades, their absence at introduction makes little sense in the current marketplace. In addition there are no other inputs besides the Ethernet port. Here we have what is probably the best DAC in existence and no way to connect a UniDisk, Ikemi, iPod, etc. to improve their performance. These seem to me rather large oversights especially in a product that is rumored to sell for almost $19,000US.

I am also informed that the display on the DS is not intended for the display of playlists and searching for tracks. It is expected that some type of pocket PC will be used as a control device and that it will display the playlists, etc. However, such a device is NOT included in the substantial price! There is some slight degree of control available with the remote that comes with it but it is very minimal. You can only skip back and forth in the last used playlist - you cannot choose other playlists. And if you power the unit down you can't even do that.

Overall, it sounds like musical performance is exceptional but functionality and usability could both use some work.

monkeydevil · Post by **monkeydevil** » 2007-09-14 09:09

Fredrik, did you compare CD-quality files through the DS with LP12?

Post by **lejonklou** » 2007-09-14 10:05

Unfortunately no comparisons were made, either with CD-players or LP12. They said they hadn't ripped any CD's yet, so the choice of music was limited. Seemed a bit strange, as it was all connected and running so ripping a CD must have been just a matter of putting it into the computer.

My only conclusion is that they wanted to play around with it themselves first, before demonstrating it to others...

Klimax DS

Klimax DS

Re: Klimax DS