We currently run aktiv AV5140's driven by 3 x 2250. Av 5120 centre is aktiv using a Klout. The AV5110 rears are driven passively using an LK 140.
We are considering taking advantage of the Linn summer promotion. One possibility is to trade in both Klout and LK140 and replace them with a Majik 6100 - bearing in mind that the aktiv cards will be free under the promotion. It would also be good to lose a box in the process.
Thoughts anyone?
Going fully aktiv
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going active
Hi Ledcam,
I had 3 active klouts in the past. They were driving Ninkas.The chakras were the first amps I heard that made me want to change. Ive not had extended time with 140's, but Im guessing most would accept that klouts would be better amps!?
The fact you are going "active" with the 6100 whereas the klout had been/is passive makes it an ideal move IMO.
Good luck.
Steve.
I had 3 active klouts in the past. They were driving Ninkas.The chakras were the first amps I heard that made me want to change. Ive not had extended time with 140's, but Im guessing most would accept that klouts would be better amps!?
The fact you are going "active" with the 6100 whereas the klout had been/is passive makes it an ideal move IMO.
Good luck.
Steve.
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Hi guys and thanks for your views.
Yes the centre channel is currently run by an aktiv Klout.
Since posting we have decided to go with a C2200 which we can pick up for a reasonable cost from our dealer. I had worries that the C6100 might be a bit thin after the Klout and since it is the centre speaker we're dealing with primarily we think it makes more sense to put the best we can there. We'll see if our dealer will throw in the aktiv cards!
The Klout will move to rear speaker duties - passive I'm afraid meantime.
The source is Kisto/Unidisk 1.1
Yes the centre channel is currently run by an aktiv Klout.
Since posting we have decided to go with a C2200 which we can pick up for a reasonable cost from our dealer. I had worries that the C6100 might be a bit thin after the Klout and since it is the centre speaker we're dealing with primarily we think it makes more sense to put the best we can there. We'll see if our dealer will throw in the aktiv cards!
The Klout will move to rear speaker duties - passive I'm afraid meantime.
The source is Kisto/Unidisk 1.1
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Good that you drop the idea of 100w!ledcam wrote:Since posting we have decided to go with a C2200 which we can pick up for a reasonable cost from our dealer.
But why C2200 and not C4200?
Not that much extra and two channels more...
I suggest trading all front system amps for 2 * C4200.
Better and just two boxes.
You an start trading Lk140 (or Klout) and one of the 2250, trading the two other 2250 to C4200 later on.
For the back speakers keep one amp. Try both the Klout/LK140 before deciding. Klout is better but can you detect the difference on the back speakers?
It's all about musical understanding!
A novice's question
Hello Everyone(!),
May I please ask a neophyte's question? It's a definition-of-terms query:
Q: What does it mean when an amp sounds "thin"?
In particular, how does this apply when comparing the Cx100 to the Klout (and to the Cx200)? I've read descriptions on the Topica lists of how the Klout sounds "thick" relative to the 2250, but those posts implied "thick" was a bad thing -- so I guess "thin" is too far the other way? And how does Thick/Thin relate to TuneDem (which I'm still trying to learn, and which still has me a little confused when I try to put it into practice) - is it (as Pediatrik's post implies) a completely independent concept? Or is "thick/thin" an audiophile shorthand for talking about the quantity or quality of bass? And if the latter, how does it relate to bass "tightness"?)
Thank you very much, everyone (and Ledcam, congratulations on your system! It must be wonderful-sounding)! All the best,
- C
May I please ask a neophyte's question? It's a definition-of-terms query:
Q: What does it mean when an amp sounds "thin"?
In particular, how does this apply when comparing the Cx100 to the Klout (and to the Cx200)? I've read descriptions on the Topica lists of how the Klout sounds "thick" relative to the 2250, but those posts implied "thick" was a bad thing -- so I guess "thin" is too far the other way? And how does Thick/Thin relate to TuneDem (which I'm still trying to learn, and which still has me a little confused when I try to put it into practice) - is it (as Pediatrik's post implies) a completely independent concept? Or is "thick/thin" an audiophile shorthand for talking about the quantity or quality of bass? And if the latter, how does it relate to bass "tightness"?)
Thank you very much, everyone (and Ledcam, congratulations on your system! It must be wonderful-sounding)! All the best,
- C
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First, tune dem has nothing to do with the sound.
Ok then..Into the world of "HIFI talk" = sound :mrgreen:
Discussing "sound" is difficult as this is a matter of taste, so be prepared reading posts with other thoughts... :lol:
For me:
- "thick/thin" is about the perceived quantity of bass.
If you prefer bass, thick can be positive
The opposite can also be true...
- "thick/thin" has no relation with bass tightness or other quality related aspects
To my ears, Klout/2250/chakra 200w feels powerful compared to 100W chakra.
And on most speakers, these amps produce more bass (quantity) than 100w chakra.
I think most people then going to say 100w is "thin", but it CAN be that these amps are considered bass boomy (again, remember the taste is different)
The result is also dependent of the signal from the preamp and speakers used.
So be careful to read too much into "sound related words"
Best is to compare and decide what you like!
The advantage using tune dem is that it’s objective.
Using that method, you obtain the important QUALITY of the amp.
The sound (bass, definition, dynamics etc) is also a quality but as that is SO personal and depending of the system - it's difficult to rate/discuss...
Ok guys - over to you :mrgreen:
Ok then..Into the world of "HIFI talk" = sound :mrgreen:
Discussing "sound" is difficult as this is a matter of taste, so be prepared reading posts with other thoughts... :lol:
For me:
- "thick/thin" is about the perceived quantity of bass.
If you prefer bass, thick can be positive
The opposite can also be true...
- "thick/thin" has no relation with bass tightness or other quality related aspects
To my ears, Klout/2250/chakra 200w feels powerful compared to 100W chakra.
And on most speakers, these amps produce more bass (quantity) than 100w chakra.
I think most people then going to say 100w is "thin", but it CAN be that these amps are considered bass boomy (again, remember the taste is different)
The result is also dependent of the signal from the preamp and speakers used.
So be careful to read too much into "sound related words"
Best is to compare and decide what you like!
The advantage using tune dem is that it’s objective.
Using that method, you obtain the important QUALITY of the amp.
The sound (bass, definition, dynamics etc) is also a quality but as that is SO personal and depending of the system - it's difficult to rate/discuss...
Ok guys - over to you :mrgreen:
It's all about musical understanding!
Thanks Ceilidh for your kind words!
Well things have taken a slight change from earlier. We missed out on the C2200 we were interested in. Back to the drawing board!
Our dealer has a very late 2250 - one of the last found at Linn. It hasn't been used other than he thinks as part of a static display - he has looked inside and in his words it all looks very clean. It would cost us £997 plus £80 for aktiv boards.
He also has a C2200 for £1850 - and whatever the aktiv boards cost. Now his comment is an odd one and frankly I'm puzzled - bear in mind this is a man I trust - he says that a C2200 starts out sounding better than a 2250 and then over time ends up sounding pretty much the same. We are talking of a cost difference here of around £850 - I need a big difference for that kind of money.
It's back to the perceived sound argument but OK Linnies go for it!
Well things have taken a slight change from earlier. We missed out on the C2200 we were interested in. Back to the drawing board!
Our dealer has a very late 2250 - one of the last found at Linn. It hasn't been used other than he thinks as part of a static display - he has looked inside and in his words it all looks very clean. It would cost us £997 plus £80 for aktiv boards.
He also has a C2200 for £1850 - and whatever the aktiv boards cost. Now his comment is an odd one and frankly I'm puzzled - bear in mind this is a man I trust - he says that a C2200 starts out sounding better than a 2250 and then over time ends up sounding pretty much the same. We are talking of a cost difference here of around £850 - I need a big difference for that kind of money.
It's back to the perceived sound argument but OK Linnies go for it!
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Hmmm - all amps look clean inside.
And worse over time?
What else has he told you...
Compare 2250/Klout/Lk140 with C2200, trust you ears!
While at it - test C2100, Twin/Solo as well.
Only you determine if the difference is big enough.
Get a feeling that you are in a rush.
You have a great source/pre, take your time testing all amps.
Have fun!
And worse over time?
What else has he told you...
Compare 2250/Klout/Lk140 with C2200, trust you ears!
While at it - test C2100, Twin/Solo as well.
Only you determine if the difference is big enough.
Get a feeling that you are in a rush.
You have a great source/pre, take your time testing all amps.
Have fun!
It's all about musical understanding!
No, not in a rush, but we do have a specific budget available and it seems to make sense to us to upgrade when we are in a position to do so.
With that budget in mind there would be little to be gained in listening to a Twin/Solo. I'm sure that would only lead to discontent :?
I realise and indeed your posts touch on the fact that sound is subjective. For example there are those who strongly prefer Klouts to 2250 and Chakras. Who is to say they are wrong? It seems to boil down pretty much to a matter of taste.
We have an aktiv Klout and would like to replace it with something better. Better for us would be clearer dialogue and a hefty bass response - we like bass which an earlier poster was led to believe was a "thick" sound as opposed to the "thin" sound of the 100 amp series.
So I suppose the bottom line for us is to try to achieve something better for the system overall within the financial constraints on us just now.
The puzzle for us is trying to get our heads round the statement made by our dealer that over time a C2200 drifts to sound pretty much like a 2250. If someone has first hand experience of that or indeed can refute that then I'm keen to hear their views.
With that budget in mind there would be little to be gained in listening to a Twin/Solo. I'm sure that would only lead to discontent :?
I realise and indeed your posts touch on the fact that sound is subjective. For example there are those who strongly prefer Klouts to 2250 and Chakras. Who is to say they are wrong? It seems to boil down pretty much to a matter of taste.
We have an aktiv Klout and would like to replace it with something better. Better for us would be clearer dialogue and a hefty bass response - we like bass which an earlier poster was led to believe was a "thick" sound as opposed to the "thin" sound of the 100 amp series.
So I suppose the bottom line for us is to try to achieve something better for the system overall within the financial constraints on us just now.
The puzzle for us is trying to get our heads round the statement made by our dealer that over time a C2200 drifts to sound pretty much like a 2250. If someone has first hand experience of that or indeed can refute that then I'm keen to hear their views.
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The reason to hear ALL amps is to get an understanding of the quality of each.ledcam wrote:No, not in a rush, but we do have a specific budget available and it seems to make sense to us to upgrade when we are in a position to do so.
With that budget in mind there would be little to be gained in listening to a Twin/Solo. I'm sure that would only lead to discontent :?
I compare quite often - also with other brands.
Some products are great but too expensive given performance...
Some are bargains!!
How can you decidee if 200w chakra is "the" amp, without comparing with all other?
Then...when you KNOW what you like (and consider the price reasonable) you just wait until you can buy that.
Never heard any that prefer Klout over chakra 200w.
fyi
I had Klout in an active setup and now have C4200...
2250 was no option for me, not better in all aspects, but chakra IS.
And C4200 is a bargain compared with Twin/Solo.
Klimax amps ARE a lot better, but so is the price!
It's all about musical understanding!
Hello Ledcam,
if you want an amp that is better in all respects than the Klout the answer is Chakra X200 series. Having lived long with Klouts, 2250 and now 200W Chakras and I can honestly assure you that C2200 sounds MUCH better than 2250, more powerful, dynamic, solid, exact, detailed. The 2250 is a fine amp, it sounds overall more in tune than the Klout, but the latter in my experience still maintains the edge on some musically signifying things.
The run-in matter is another story: it's true that in the first period of its life a product usually doesn't perform at its best and the sound quality can vary - also considerably - until it's fully "runned-in". Maybe your dealer has reached his convinction using a 2200 still not at its best, this is the only possible reason that comes to my mind.
Paolo
if you want an amp that is better in all respects than the Klout the answer is Chakra X200 series. Having lived long with Klouts, 2250 and now 200W Chakras and I can honestly assure you that C2200 sounds MUCH better than 2250, more powerful, dynamic, solid, exact, detailed. The 2250 is a fine amp, it sounds overall more in tune than the Klout, but the latter in my experience still maintains the edge on some musically signifying things.
The run-in matter is another story: it's true that in the first period of its life a product usually doesn't perform at its best and the sound quality can vary - also considerably - until it's fully "runned-in". Maybe your dealer has reached his convinction using a 2200 still not at its best, this is the only possible reason that comes to my mind.
Paolo
I have two comments here. First, is that I agree with the latest post by Paolo word for word. I haven't heard anyone so far who didn't prefer the Cx200 amps over the Klouts or the 2250. I believe this would be true whether both were new out of the box or if both had been well run in.
Secondly, Linn currently has an Aktiv Summer Promotion going on. This means that if you buy a Cx200 (or Cx100) amplifier the Aktiv card you need are FREE. This applies to Majik and Akurate amps but also covers Chakra amps already in stock. The only way you would not be entitiled to this is if it is a used unit. I believe that it would even cover a dealer demo although I am not positive on this. Obviously the crossover card costs should enter into the equation so I wanted to make sure you were aware of the promotion.
Secondly, Linn currently has an Aktiv Summer Promotion going on. This means that if you buy a Cx200 (or Cx100) amplifier the Aktiv card you need are FREE. This applies to Majik and Akurate amps but also covers Chakra amps already in stock. The only way you would not be entitiled to this is if it is a used unit. I believe that it would even cover a dealer demo although I am not positive on this. Obviously the crossover card costs should enter into the equation so I wanted to make sure you were aware of the promotion.
Situation resolved! We bought a C4200 which will drive the 5120 in aktiv mode and the other 2 channels will be used to drive the rear 5110's.
Thanks to all who offered their opinions - they were very much appreciated and helped enormously to clarify our needs.
Now all we have to do is await our dealer turning up to set it all up and we now have to try and sell our Klout !
Cheers!
Thanks to all who offered their opinions - they were very much appreciated and helped enormously to clarify our needs.
Now all we have to do is await our dealer turning up to set it all up and we now have to try and sell our Klout !
Cheers!
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Thank you both for your kind words. The C4200 should arrive tomorrow. It's coming by post from a Linn dealer in England.
The problem may well be getting our own dealer to turn up! He is a sole trader and if away on another job which I believe he is this week can't be expected to turn up anytime soon. Hopefully we'll see him within the next week or two.
The problem may well be getting our own dealer to turn up! He is a sole trader and if away on another job which I believe he is this week can't be expected to turn up anytime soon. Hopefully we'll see him within the next week or two.
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Hi ML. No the aktiv cards will be available when our dealer turns up to install the new amp. We did not buy from him as bluntly he had nothing approaching the deal we got on the C4200 - £1299 which seems to us to be good price bearing in mind it is only 8 months old and has only been used in a static display - used only if a customer wanted to dem it.
That said we felt that loyalty demanded we at least buy the aktiv cards from our usual guy.
I'm surprising myself as I get older that I can actually wait - deferred gratification I think its called!
As of this evening no word from our dealer on when he can get here but that's par for the course. The dealer we bought from in England is just over the border so could actually become our dealer as it is not that far away from us. We shall see.
That said we felt that loyalty demanded we at least buy the aktiv cards from our usual guy.
I'm surprising myself as I get older that I can actually wait - deferred gratification I think its called!
As of this evening no word from our dealer on when he can get here but that's par for the course. The dealer we bought from in England is just over the border so could actually become our dealer as it is not that far away from us. We shall see.