Mogami W2972 speaker cable

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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donuk
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Post by donuk » 2012-03-08 19:49

Hi Guys
Forum been a bit quiet recently, so I thought I would post this. I don't know if it should have its own thread or is OK on here.

The nub is, has anyone tried Mogami W2972 speaker cable? I got some from the Sound Organisation, York for about £20 per metre. It outperforms (to my ears) Tellurium Q Black, and Linn K20.
My system is Akurate 2200 and Ninkas.

It is beautifully made stuff - professional studio cable I believe. I won't attempt tune-dem superlatives, but it really swings.

Anyone tried it?

Don, sunny downtown York (now gone dark!)
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Post by FangfossFlyer » 2012-04-07 16:53

Yes I heard Mogami speaker cable at The Sound Org York compared to my normal NACA5 and I was quite impressed.

Richard

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Post by CJ1045 » 2012-04-08 15:57

I am selling it for £15 a meter (Krescendo HiFi). I am running two lengths per Akurate 212 and it is great. It has the bonus that the cabe will fit through the hole in the top of the 212 stands so much neater too.

CJ

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lejonklou
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Post by lejonklou » 2012-04-08 16:13

I've got a couple of questions:

Why compare it with K20? A K400 split in the middle (K200) is so much better that I fail to understand why people are still using K20. Or why Linn keep selling it.

Did you compare the biwired Mogami against single wire with K20? It's important to isolate the parameters and compare wire against wire, using the same type of connection. Otherwise you don't know what did what (was it the cable that was better, or was it biwire that was better than single wire?).

How was the K20 terminated? The connectors and how they're fitted to the cable has a much greater influence on the final result than the cable itself, in my opinion. I have demonstrated how a cheap supermarket 1.00 mm2 cable optimally terminated with Knekt bananas outperforms a K400 with screw on gold plated bananas.

Is there a single wire version of the Mogami that performs anywhere near the model you mention? I've made a bunch of comparisons with a Tundra power amp and single wire has won every time. In the Tundra manual I therefore strongly recommend single wiring. So far I haven't heard anything approaching K200 optimally soldered to Knekt bananas.

donuk
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Post by donuk » 2012-04-08 17:13

Hi Mr L
Perhaps my comparisons were not as rigorous as you would have liked.

But I will try to answer a couple of questions.
I have tried the Mogami cable bi-wired into my speakers, and prefer them in single wired configuration. That is, with two of the four runs of wire running in parallel. This is how, I understand, the Sound Organisation of York is using them. Perhaps not how the cable was designed to be used, but IMHO how it sounds better.

On both my K20 and the Mogami I am using the Deltron banana plugs that came with my Ninkas. I soldered them up myself with silver solder; I am an ex-electrical engineer and a competent solderer. I have found the Deltrons to be as good as anything. No, I have not tried the gold plated Deltrons.

I cannot comment on how K200 optimally soldered to Knekt bananas sounds. Thank you for bringing these to my attention as a possible front runner.

I have, however owned K400 and tried it both bi-wired and and single (as K200) wired using the Deltron plugs. I preferred the K200 to the K20. But - although I have to rely on memory for comparison - I prefer my current arrangement with the Mogami to the K200 in either configuration.

I hope you have the chance to hear some Mogami cable sometime. I would value your views on it. Of course all opinions are subjective, but the fact is the Mogami is by far the best cable I have heard in my system, and I have no plans to make any changes in the near future.

Thank you for corresponding

Don, rainy downtown York
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Post by rowlandhills » 2012-04-08 19:16

Miderators - can I suggest that this discussion of the Mogami speaker cable deserves its own thread?

Interesting stuff all. Perhaps this is a sensible cable to use for aktiv installations where multiple runs of K400/600 are just too bulky, even if the most musical option. Personally, I have K400 for my main speakers and have run Van Damme black series for my rears and centre, as it's embedded in the wall, and K400 would have been too bulky and awkward over that length.
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Post by lejonklou » 2012-04-10 23:17

donuk wrote:Perhaps my comparisons were not as rigorous as you would have liked.
Sorry Don, I guess that non-rigorous tests has become my pet hate. I don't know how yours were, which is why I asked the questions.
I have tried the Mogami cable bi-wired into my speakers, and prefer them in single wired configuration. That is, with two of the four runs of wire running in parallel.
Are you saying you are using two conductors for + and two for -?
I have found the Deltrons to be as good as anything. No, I have not tried the gold plated Deltrons.
I have to agree with you that the Deltron 550 plug sounds really nice (second best after Linn Knekts in my experience). The 550 exists with different platings and I rank them from best to worst as follows: Tin, nickel, gold. Often only the nickel version seems to be available. I haven't come across any silver solder that has particularly good, though.
I cannot comment on how K200 optimally soldered to Knekt bananas sounds. Thank you for bringing these to my attention as a possible front runner.
Maybe I should send you a pair to evaluate.
But - although I have to rely on memory for comparison - I prefer my current arrangement with the Mogami to the K200 in either configuration.
Interesting!
I hope you have the chance to hear some Mogami cable sometime. I would value your views on it. Of course all opinions are subjective
Yes, I might have to try them. Opinions based on the Tune Method, however, are not subjective. If it's actually better in musical terms, it will be better in all systems and for all of us. If not based on the Tune Method, I agree that it becomes very subjective. And as speaker cable comes late in the chain, it's easy to get into a sound compensation that hides errors earlier in the chain. That's why I stress the importance of focusing on musical qualities in all evaluations.

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Post by donuk » 2012-04-12 15:52

Hello Mr L
Thank you for your reply.
With the Mogami cable I put two wires in parallel. This is the way that the Sound Organisation use them. If one seeks out the specification for the cable - here is a link to a pdf data sheet
http://www.hhb.co.uk/files/product/file ... 38_991.pdf

You will see the capacitances between the various conductors. Which means that if connect adjacent pairs, you will get a different cable to connecting opposite pairs.
I have connected the red to the yellow.
I have not experimented with the other combination, as I am happy with what I have.

To my shame, I do not really understand the Tunedem method, although I have read and re-read the literature available to me.
I am an active musician - my experience is that a lot of musicians have really poor ears when it comes to hifi. Perhaps I am one of those.

What I do is to listen to a record, and close my eyes and try to imagine being at a gig or a concert. My own observations is that unlike demo-room hifi, live music does not have a holographic sound stage. Most music is performed on floors, set between walls, which cause complex reflections. Also many hifis have - I stress to my ears - too much treble, and often too much bass in an attempt to be "realistic" - rather like adjusting up the contrast on digital images. This is one reason why I chose Linn amplification in preference to Naim. It sounded more like the EL34s of my homemade valve rig that had served me for many years, which was regularly praised for sounding "realistic".

So, I just sit back and try to imagine the band. My listening enjoyment of music often does not have much to do with the tune! When I got my Uphorik not so long ago, I noticed that the words on pop records seemed more detached from the backing and easier to understand.

Anyway, that is my predicament, and I struggle on. I stress again all my views are my own, and I have no business connection with the Sound Organisation nor Mogami.

Keep up the good work.

don, overcast downtown York
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Post by usjaz » 2012-12-09 03:54

Any update on Mogami vs. K200s? Lejonklou or CJ or others?
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