Power cords

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2008-07-02 21:42

lejonklou wrote:The cables Linn supply can vary in thickness, direction and length between different countries.

Ah, this explains the different test conclusions.
Big question…why is the direction etc different? Makes no sense at all. Or are they tuned to suit the specific power plugs?

vicdiaz · Post by **vicdiaz** » 2008-07-03 14:39

I don't think neither Linn nor their A/C cord supliers spend any time testing directionality in A/C power cords or which plug goes at what end of the cable. These cords are not done specifically for Linn. If you take a look at them they are exactly the same as the A/C cords supplied to other Audio vendors (Naim, Creek, etc.)

Post by **lejonklou** » 2008-07-03 16:30

Correct, Vic. Linn have always supplied a standard cable that they have found sounds good. These latest years they have used cables from Volex. Volex themselves specify the cables differently for different markets, depending on regulations etc.

The cable used is also specified as "one of the following:" in Volex catalogue. That list starts with Tongyuan and continues with Baohing and Ta Hsing. The direction of the cable is in my experience usually 90-95% in one direction and the remaining % in the opposite direction. This is probably just the result of what direction the cable has on the large bobin when it's being manufactured.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2008-07-03 17:35

Fredrik is quite correct that the plug will make quite a difference. I hit on the Hubbell plug strictly by accident. I wanted to compare the Lejonklou cable to a Linn cable so I needed to chop off the Shuko plug and put on a US style one. To make the comparison fair I also chopped the end off a Linn Baohing cable. I got the Hubbell form the company that makes the Revelation II power distribution box as I had heard good things about it and they like it. When I put it on the Linn Baohing cable I was honestly surprised to find that it was better, and by a decent margin, than the molded on Volex plug. I have since put the Hubbells on all the power cables in my Hi-Fi and AV systems. After trying the Hubbell I also tried a few other AC plugs, including some "audiophile" types like the Wattgates and none sound as good as the molded Volex!

I also sacrificed one Baohing and chopped off the IEC end so that I could try different IEC plugs. After trying a few different plugs including Schurter and Wattgate I gave up trying to find a better one than the molded Volex on the Linn cables. I would have tried a Hubbell but they didn't appear to make one. I had hoped to find a better one to make a further improvement and to allow me to check cable directionality. Since I could find no better IEC plug the cable directionality question will remain a mystery - I am not willing to sacrifice my precious Tongyuan cables for science. :) That's why you find that I am chopping up Baohing cables for my experiments. Also, unlike with the EU cables I have never seen a Linn Baohing, Tongyuan or Ta Hsing cable that wasn't in the same direction. It seems like they do them all the same on the US cables.

I did mention in my testing comments above that the UK Baohing wire was substantially behind the US Baohing in performance and uses different internal construction. Because of this I don't think that you can extrapolate my cable findings to non-US cables. On the other hand the fact that Charlie1's friend found his old Tongyuan cable to outperform a newer cable does indicate that the UK Tongyuans might be quite good too.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2008-07-03 20:38

This is a MESS

artikulate · Post by **artikulate** » 2009-03-08 21:17

Hi Thomas,

great job on all these comparisons!!! I have a question----all my power cables are the baohing variety except the one for my klimax sub which is the newest one. Should I put the newest cable (seemingly better than baohing ones) on my uni 1.1 and have all the amplification using the baohings or just leave as is----system is uni 1.1 (soon to be klimax ds), entry level clear audio TT (soon to be linn table), klimax kontrol (upgraded), artikulate 350a (in process of being upgraded to klimax) and klimax sub. Is it worth obtaining 4 of the newest linn power cables to replace baohings---is the difference that pronounced. Thanks!!!!

Ron

Azazello · Post by **Azazello** » 2009-03-08 23:21

artikulate wrote: Is it worth obtaining 4 of the newest linn power cables to replace baohings---is the difference that pronounced. Thanks!!!

If I had your system, I'd order every (Linn, Lejonklou and possibly some Nordost?) cable I could get my hands on and compare in my own system, sometimes it varies from system from system. And yes, the difference can be big.

artikulate · Post by **artikulate** » 2009-03-09 07:02

Thanks for the advice azazello. I might have to do just what you suggest to be sure!!!

Ron

artikulate · Post by **artikulate** » 2009-03-09 07:15

Hi Thomas,

one question about your mains cable comparisons---you say you run your system at 220v but the hubbel plug part you used seems to be rated at 125v and would nt fit in a 220v style receptacle---Im asking because I want to go 220v as well but I would need to replace the plugs on my current power cords and you mentioned you mentioned you really liked the hubbel plug---Im hoping it was actually the 250v version you used ---Im confused???

Ron

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2009-03-09 10:22

artikulate wrote: I would need to replace the plugs on my current power cords and you mentioned you mentioned you really liked the hubbel plug---

Please don’t cut the cable and replace the plug.
Get proper 220V power cords instead.

The best 220V cables are Lejonklou's "Power One", available in 1 and 2m lengths. Buy a few of both and try what’s best in your system.
Low cost and worth the hassle!

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-03-09 11:36

artikulate wrote:all my power cables are the baohing variety except the one for my klimax sub which is the newest one

Which do you consider to be newer than Baohing?

In Europe, Linn supply a Volex cord, which comes with either a Baohing or a Tongyuan cable. Sometimes even a third variety. This is how Volex specifies their product, and Linn seem to just send out what they get.

In my opinion, it can vary between units which power cord sounds the best. It can also vary between entire systems. So - unfortunately - there is a bit of trial and error needed to optimise this part. And it's definitely worth it!

In my opinion, the most surprising thing about power cords is how some of them can completely mess up the performance of a system. I just don't understand how it's possible. The power cords that are really good are just a few: Some Volex models and Power One. You only need to try those, as bad cords never sound any good, regardless of where they're used.

My phono preamps (Kinki and Slipsik) are supplied with Power One cords. On the Kikkin volume control, a Volex cord of my own specification (similar to one of the models that Linn supply) is fitted. The prototype Kikkins had a Power One, but after some changes to the power supply I found that I could get slightly better results with a different power cord.

artikulate · Post by **artikulate** » 2009-03-09 16:26

Hi Music Lover,

I didnt think Fredericks cords would work with North American style 220V plugs----thats what my dilemma is---I dont want to use cords other than Linn or Fredericks but I would need to change the plug end either way---or am I wrong???

Ron

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-03-09 19:31

I don't know anything about the rules that apply for electrical installations in the U.S. But I would imagine that it's a lot safer to install wall sockets (receptacles) of a non-US type. Either the European standard Shuko or the UK standard. Both of which are used with 230 VAC.

The choice of standard here determines what standard power cords you can use. But there are always other options, such as cutting off and replacing the plugs (as Thomas have done) and changing the plug on a Shuko (or UK) distribution block, which you will then connect your HiFi to.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2009-03-10 16:38

Well, Ron, you have brought up a whole series of questions on the AC powering of components. I will try to answer most of your questions here but will also PM you with additional information.

As you can see from my listing I feel that the Ta Hsing, which is the latest US power cable I have seen from Linn, is enough superior over the Baohing to be worthwhile switching out in a top line system. The Baohing, however, is still a very good cable and will be a noticeable improvement over most of the other cables - even when used with other brands like Rega and ATC. While the Ta Hsing is the latest cable I am still receiving some new product from Linn with Baohing so Fredrik is correct about Linn not being consistent about what they send out. And as he noted, all Linn power cables of recent years: Tongyuan, Baohing and Ta Hsing are Volex cables which use the same plugs for both the equipment and wall outlet ends - only the wire itself is different.

As Fredrik has found different cables to work better in different applications (something which I have honestly not tried to any great extent) I would recommend comparing using tune dem the Ta Hsing with the Baohing on each of the components. This way you will hear how much improvement, if any, the Ta Hsing makes over the Baohing and can decide for yourself if you want to upgrade. As US Linn power cables are only $35 it is a pretty reasonable cost to upgrade if you hear an improvement, although you will have to make sure your dealer will get you the right ones. If you want to just keep all the cables you have now then I would indeed suggest using the Ta Hsing on your most important source (again if you hear an improvement. In my testing I mostly used a Classik K with Linn or AVI speakers at the store and my Lingo, Linto, and Klimax Kontrol at home and use the cable I felt the best throughout. Someday when I have time I suppose I will have to try my two or three favorites on each component to make sure of my choices.

Rather than touching on the 230 Volt issue here I will talk about it in the thread dedicated to it.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-03-10 19:45

Thomas: So your current opinion is that Ta Hsing is better than Tongyuan?

Do you know which direction of the cable is the best on Ta Hsing? Text running from wall to machine or text running from machine to wall?

Thanks in advance!

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2009-03-10 23:14

lejonklou wrote:Thomas: So your current opinion is that Ta Hsing is better than Tongyuan?

Do you know which direction of the cable is the best on Ta Hsing? Text running from wall to machine or text running from machine to wall?

Thanks in advance!

Sorry if I caused any confusion. No, I still prefer the US Tongyuan to all others with the US Ta Hsing second. I just don't bother mentioning it anymore as Linn haven't shipped any US Tongyuan cables for a number of years which, combined with the fondness I and others have for them, has made them Unobtanium. :) So I figure it makes no sense to taunt people with them (except, of course, my co-workers

).

Unfortunately, I can't be of much help in the directionality question. The Ta Hsing cables Linn sends out have the writing going from the wall to the component. I know that you have found the directionality varies, which doesn't surprise me. But, since I have yet to find an IEC plug that performs as well as the molded Volex one I am not thrilled to make several Linn power cables into substandard cables in the interests of science - they aren't particularly expensive but they do cost money. And I certainly have no intention of sacrificing any of my irreplaceable Tongyuan cables to find out. If you ever find an attachable IEC connector that you feel is superior to the Volex I'm all ears. :)

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-03-11 00:29

Ok. I am probably repeating myself from earlier posts in this thread, but in Europe there's a been a lot of Baohings, occasionally Tongyuans and rarely Ta Hsings. The direction of the cable, however, has varied. I have found that with the Baohing and Tongyuan cables, the text should preferably run from wall to component.

Those directions may not apply to the US cords, though...

When I ordered my Volex cord for the Kikkin, I tried getting it in the right direction. Same struggle as with the Power One, but as this is complete nonsense to most people, I didn't manage to pursue it this time. The order arrived as 90% correct orientation and 10% wrong. Lucky strike it wasn't the other way around! :D

I only use the correctly oriented ones for the Kikkin. It's certainly not a major difference to the overall performance, but I've tested it blind several times and it's been clearly audible. The sound may at first appear to be almost identical, but while the music is easily flowing and progressing in the right direction, it's a tiny bit stiff and holding back in the other. I also asked a few others to tell me which they preferred (on their own and in their own systems) and they all chose the same direction.

Quite a puzzling phenomenon that I have no explanation to...

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2010-01-12 21:52

Another update is in order. I had a few uninterrupted hours yesterday to do some listening and comparing at home and was able to compare a couple more power cables.

The two new power cables I tried were both from Naim Audio - a standard US Naim power cable with the name "Well Shin" on the wire and a PowerLine. I remember reading a couple of years ago that Naim USA had evaluated a bunch of cables and had found one they particularly liked and many of the Naim users were really pleased with it. I think (but I am not sure) that this became the standard power cable for US bound Naim components. Of course, the Naim PowerLine is their $700+US power cable that a few on other forums have recommended for Linn gear.

As I didn't have a lot of time for the testing (the cables were on loan and had to go back) I only did the tests with one component: my Radikal. As I had seen at least one recommendation of using the PowerLine with a Radikal this seemed a good choice for the comparison, it is also relatively easy to do. I used two different pieces of music: a piece by Steely Dan that moves along pretty well and a solo acoustic piano piece by Egberto Gismonti.

What I expected to hear: the Naim pacey, direct sound was somewhat the opposite of what I heard. The Naim PowerLine seemed to slow down the tempo and make it a bit harder to follow. It also made things less tuneful which it seemed to do by dulling the harmonic structure of the notes. The piano sounded almost as though a thin layer of fabric had ben laid on the strings and was dulling the overtones. It sounded like a lesser quality piano and the quality of playing, of the touch on the keys, was lessened. There was the same dulling and muddling of guitar, cymbals, vocals and a triangle on the Steely Dan cut. What was also surprising was that, while it dulled down the harmonics it also emphasized the surface noise on both records making the groove noise a fair bit louder compared to the music than on my Linn Tongyuan/Hubbell cable. Overall I found it a fair bit harder to get into the music with the Naim cable and the surface noise changed from something I didn't really notice on the Linn cable to annoying on the Naim.

When I tested the stock Naim Well Shin cable I heard the same kinds of things but to a lesser degree. It still was harder to follow the notes and the rhythm was less well defined and sluggish but not to the degree it was with the PowerLine. It sounded to me as though the PowerLine had a bigger negative effect on the music than the Well Shin but both pushed things in the same direction.

I was not able to compare the Naim cables with any of the other cables so any additional comments are from memory and not to be completely trusted. However, I believe that any of the better power cables I have tested: the Linn Volex Tongyuan , Ta Hsing and Baohing and the Lejonklou Power One would musically outperform the Naim PowerLine with no problem and would perform at least a bit better than the Naim Well Shin too.

Addendum: I failed to mention this when I posted this but both Naim power cables were burned in on the Nordost Vidar machine as well as having been in use on Naim equipment before I borrowed them. I also have used the Vidar on all the other power cables so that burn in is not a factor in the comparisons.

paolo · Post by **paolo** » 2010-01-13 17:08

I completely concur with Thomas' findings about Powerline.
When it came out in the market I did try it on a Chakra 2200 and on Lingo and both clearly changed for the worse. Though I found the sound somehow pleasant, both timing and cohesion were seriously compromised, resulting in music being much harder to follow.

There was some reports also in this old thread http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopi ... =powerline

Paolo

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2010-01-18 15:54

Thomas, are those the only power cords you've experimented with on the Radikal?

Linntek · Post by **Linntek** » 2010-01-20 20:58

http://www.music-line.biz/shop/product_ ... ce16b74cd7

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2010-01-20 22:50

Tony Tune-age wrote:Thomas, are those the only power cords you've experimented with on the Radikal?

Yes Tony, so far those are the only ones I've tried on the Radikal. As you cab see earlier in this thread I tried a fair few different AC cables on other Linn components and the Linn Tongyuan are still the ones I like the best with the Linn Ta Hsing second.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2010-01-20 22:52

Linntek wrote:http://www.music-line.biz/shop/product_ ... ce16b74cd7

I noticed that when I went to this link it said that customers who bought this cable also bought ceramic mugs...I suppose to suspend their cables on. :)

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2010-01-22 00:27

Thanks for sharing your experience with power cords on the Linn Radikal. There have been a few after-market power cords which I've tried on the Linn Lingo and Radikal, but not the same cords as you. Much to my surprise they can make a positive sonic improvement 8) .

Efraim roots · Post by **Efraim roots** » 2010-01-26 00:00

There is something strange in how Linn cables suits Linn and Naim suits Naim. I tested a standard Naim cable today called 'I sheng' on the Lingo2 and it became very boring sounding, the 'ching cheng' outperormed it, more tuneful and fun. When I tried the 'I sheng' vs 'Ching Cheng' on Naim amplification, the I sheng was better. The Ching Cheng was more tuneful but also sucked the life out of the music in some way, sounded flat. The 'I sheng' was more clear, dynamic and rytmic and somehow this felt much more right and I came to the conclusion this was the winner of the two. A bit of tune dem dilemma because 'Ching cheng' was more tuneful but also lifeless.

Maybe this Naim Powerline is great with Naim? Would be interesting to hear more reports about that too.

When I tried Lejonklu kikkin with Naim poweramps NAP110 and NAP200 it just don't feel right aswell, they don't integrate with eachothers musical character.

Also I demoed the Naim Nait XS with Lejonklou Kinki2 and Naim stageline. I was sure the Kinki2 must be better but when I heard the difference I was very confused. The Kinki2 sounded thin and little confused, there was more happening in the music but it didn't feel tight. With stageline it became richer sound and more tight, less notes being played but it was musically tighter. I really doubt that a stageline would outperform a kinki2 on a Linn preamp. I don't know what happens when you climb the Naim ladder if the better preamps will handle Kinki2 better, I will do a demo soon I think as Im using Naim amplification 202/200 with Kinki2.

This maybe has something to do with that some Naim people do like pre-cirkus better aswell. There seems to be some kind of conflict going on between these characters of musicality..