DAC'S Anyone got experience of.........?

uksteve22 · Post by **uksteve22** » 2012-02-02 15:37

Hello all

I'm considering a new DAC and was wondering if anyone has experience of:-

1. TeddyDAC http://www.teddypardo.com/Products/DACs/DACs.html
2. Altmann Attraction http://www.mother-of-tone.com/attraction.htm

I appreciate that most here would point me in direction of Linn DS but...
been there and done that!...too many problems that I won't bore you with.
But would say that WHEN it ALL (AKDS,Router/Switch/NAS/PC/Asset/iPad/CP software x 4 different flavours)....you get my point?..... worked...it was superb....but more often than not it didn't.

Another but....if I had a spare 4k I'd of snapped up a Renew DS so take my mutterings with a pinch of......

So I was willing to sacrifice some quality for the certainty that when I wanted to listen to music it was a given rather than a maybe....I digress

I've not heard either of these ....has anyone?

the Altmann looks particularly interesting.

doze84 · Post by **doze84** » 2012-02-07 06:08

uksteve22 wrote:Hello all

I'm considering a new DAC and was wondering if anyone has experience of:-

1. TeddyDAC http://www.teddypardo.com/Products/DACs/DACs.html
2. Altmann Attraction http://www.mother-of-tone.com/attraction.htm

I appreciate that most here would point me in direction of Linn DS but...
been there and done that!...too many problems that I won't bore you with.
But would say that WHEN it ALL (AKDS,Router/Switch/NAS/PC/Asset/iPad/CP software x 4 different flavours)....you get my point?..... worked...it was superb....but more often than not it didn't.

Another but....if I had a spare 4k I'd of snapped up a Renew DS so take my mutterings with a pinch of......

So I was willing to sacrifice some quality for the certainty that when I wanted to listen to music it was a given rather than a maybe....I digress

I've not heard either of these ....has anyone?

the Altmann looks particularly interesting.

The TeddyDac sounds intresting, but be prepared to loose a lot of musicality when downgrading from a LINN ds to a dac. I'm still hoping for the Asynchonous dac's but still nothing has come close to a DS machine.

the best freestanding dacs I've found so far, is the Spitfire MKII from Firestone audio. Still seems pretty close to a dacmagic.
Unless you have asynchonrn usb, the quality of the transport determines the outcome.

anthony · Post by **anthony** » 2012-02-07 08:53

uksteve22 wrote:Hello all

I'm considering a new DAC and was wondering if anyone has experience of:-

1. TeddyDAC http://www.teddypardo.com/Products/DACs/DACs.html
2. Altmann Attraction http://www.mother-of-tone.com/attraction.htm

I appreciate that most here would point me in direction of Linn DS but...
been there and done that!...too many problems that I won't bore you with.
But would say that WHEN it ALL (AKDS,Router/Switch/NAS/PC/Asset/iPad/CP software x 4 different flavours)....you get my point?..... worked...it was superb....but more often than not it didn't.

Another but....if I had a spare 4k I'd of snapped up a Renew DS so take my mutterings with a pinch of......

So I was willing to sacrifice some quality for the certainty that when I wanted to listen to music it was a given rather than a maybe....I digress

I've not heard either of these ....has anyone?

the Altmann looks particularly interesting.

Did you get to use "songcast" with spotify, the whole experience became much simpler.
Don't see why you needed an ipad and pc?

uksteve22 · Post by **uksteve22** » 2012-02-07 17:54

Anthony...PC hosted Asset. iPad ran control point s/w. No I didn't get to use songcast...I don't even know what that is?

Doze84...As I said I'm already using a DAC fed from my PC and yes of course it isn't as good as a ADS.....but it plays absolutely every time and still sounds very good to me.
It was a very easy trade-off to do. But that's why i'm interested in finding a better DAC to narrow the gap.
Someone else on this or Linn forum, I think said he wanted to put his DS through the nearest window and use his iPad as a frisbee.... I felt exactly the same.

I tried to simplify by running Twonky on NAS but the setup was still very flaky. I'm sure the problems were down to hardware losing it's ip address and eventually it would work again after i accidentally hit upon the re-boot sequence it decided it was going to accept that particular day.
The other issue that was particularly annoying was the "buffering" problem. I put my music collection on a Thecus N5200PRO, an Identical other NAS hosts my DVD & BD rips. The latter can stream BD50's with no problem but the DS has to stop playing while it buffers a 60meg flac, it even needed to buffer Linn Radio.
If I thought that these problems were one-off's I may have persevered longer, but that wasn't the case, you only have to read Linn's DS forum to see that similar problems are common place. The cynic in me thinks that Linn like lots of other companies release products to market before they should because they know that they can update via firmware which makes us all beta testers.
I've no doubt eventually it will all work as it should but I just don't have that sort of patience.

marmite · Post by **marmite** » 2012-02-07 19:41

Not sure about prices but four DAC's that seem to populate the signatures of individuals on various forums are Benchmark, Weiss 202, Chord QBD76 and Zodiac Gold+Voltikus.

Cheers
Paul

hcl · Post by **hcl** » 2012-02-07 19:47

Sad to hear it did not work out the way you wanted. Also strange because it does not have to be any difficult at all. If you start with a working network and a NAS with a pre-installed Twonky you are up and running in less than five minutes and without having to exprience any drop-outs or noticeable buffering.

It is very likely the network that faults and not the DS. The DS plays a rather simple part, but if the network arrangement is flawed (for example constantly switching IP addresses or if there are any other performance bottle-necks, I have heard of some crappy equipment supplied as standard by some operators), it will seriously affect a streeming application. It would ofcourse also affect regular internet traffic, but that is not that obvious (until you compare it with a fully functioning set-up).

I would suggest sorting the network problems before forking out loads of cash for expensive, less capable and less versatile solutions.

dmitre · Post by **dmitre** » 2012-11-09 06:00

I'm happy to recommend April Eximus DP1 with Mac Mini.
You can rule it with iPad/iPhone as well.

Metrum Octave is also great and cheap DAC, very analogue sound.

magnuska · Post by **magnuska** » 2012-11-13 19:43

You asked about the Teddydac.

I´ve got one. I can recommend this dac for you. It´s a real bargain when you factor in soundquality against its pricetag. I run it together with a Pioneer DVD 757 acting as a transport. Its very musical and absolute natural and true sounding with a lot of detail and bite. Some people compare it to very good vinyl spinners ( I only have Rega P3 but seldom uses it anymore) because this DAC sounds so very good. I have listened to DS machines also and from my memory this dac competes with them.

Have not listened to your other suggestion though.
Good luck!
//Magnus

kropka235 · Post by **kropka235** » 2012-12-29 23:13

if you are still looking for a new dac, thats my recommendation:

http://www.stereomojo.com/Lampizator%20 ... el4DAC.htm

Rufus McDufus · Post by **Rufus McDufus** » 2012-12-29 23:28

Worthy of a new thread I guess but any recommendations for a digital source that's better than a Klimax DS? I guess not too many people have heard all of them in able to form a judgment, and subjectivity does become a factor... I do love my KDS but can see there could be room for improvement.

hcl · Post by **hcl** » 2012-12-30 10:16

Rufus McDufus wrote:Worthy of a new thread I guess but any recommendations for a digital source that's better than a Klimax DS? I guess not too many people have heard all of them in able to form a judgment, and subjectivity does become a factor... I do love my KDS but can see there could be room for improvement.

I presume you allready got the /1 version of your KDS, otherwise that is the obvious upgrade (quite a big leap if you ask me).

As have been listed there are numerous DAC:s out there but most of them are synchronous, a design concept limited to a certain performance level as it relies on the clock feed allong with the music data. A non compromise DAC has to use asynchronous data transfer in order to de-cuple the clocking from the data. The DS concept is probably, at least in theory, the best isolated concept with respect to isolation between the incoming data stream to the sampling clock and to the music data words feed to the DAC-IC. Another asynchronous concept is to feed data over USB, but it also requires additional efforts (one has to get the right PC/MAC-software and see to that the standard audio processing is bypassed in order to get full performance) not to be compromised. The fact that the DAC is directly connected to the computer is a sensitive interface even though one uses asynchronous data transfer. Due to the bad electrical environment in the computer. Neiher the LAN interface nor the USB interface offer total isolation between the source and the DAC, so it is mostly up to the designers skill to make the best design.

Obviously Linn have gone to great lengths with respect to their DS concept. I can not say how the best of the competition is performing as I have not heard more than a fraction of all competitors. The ones I have heard though is, at best, somewhere between a Sneaky (used as a source) and the old ADS/0. I have not heard the Weiss DAC, the new dCS or the Bryston. It seems though that Linn still have a firm advantage leaning on the tune-method for evaluation of their designs, probably the single most important ingredient, keeping them at the fore front of the game.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2012-12-30 10:55

I agree with hcl in the above. And would like to add that the way to get "beyond KDS" performance is to improve the network feeding your DS! Big changes to sound quality can be had by optimising router, switch, NAS and all of the cabling.

On the Swedish forum Melodik.nu, Linnofil has generously shared his recipy for a home built NAS. If one does exactly as he describes, one can get performance improvements not far from adding a Radikal to an LP12. In other words: BIG improvements.

Highly recommended!

k_numigl · Post by **k_numigl** » 2013-01-18 13:10

hcl wrote: most of them are synchronous, a design concept limited to a certain performance level as it relies on the clock feed allong with the music data. A non compromise DAC has to use asynchronous data transfer in order to de-cuple the clocking from the data.

A few may be found here:
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_DAC_Async.htm

An alternative is to use a Firewire / ASIO AD or DA or ADDA converter which makes use of the
(hopefully: high quality) clock in the converter. Make sure to check the direction of the FW cable before you judge quality.

BR, Klaus

DAC'S Anyone got experience of.........?

DAC'S Anyone got experience of.........?

Re: DAC'S Anyone got experience of.........?

Re: DAC'S Anyone got experience of.........?

Teddy dac