non Linn network streamers

malpa · Post by **malpa** » 2011-12-20 08:14

hello everyone,
there are many non Linn network players on the market at the moment and it would be interesting to know how they compare to linn ds (in terms of sound quality).
the streamers im interested in are quite new on the market and there are not many reviews yet, so i was wondering if any of you have already
had a chance to listen to any of them?

- Ayon S3
- Naim unitiserve
- Leema elements streamer
- Pro-ject stream box

Efraim roots · Post by **Efraim roots** » 2011-12-23 02:45

Hi

Naim unitiserve isn't really a proper streamer, it is more like a rip nas with digital output, could be used as source connected to a dac. I don't think this solution is very good, not for the money involved.

The new streamers Naim NDX and the little brother ND5 XS is another story, they are really good! The NDX with XPS powersupply is better than the much more expensive (and praised) CDS3 with 555ps. ND5 XS is clearly better than CD5 XS. I haven't had the chance to compare A/B to Linn DS but I would imagine NDX is somewhere between Majik DS and Akurate DS, like the price suggests. If you upgrade NDX with XPS PSU it gets much better and should be in the same league as Akurate DS, but probably quite different in sound to each other.

Pro-ject streambox seems to be quite good for its price (about 800€). I have only heard it, not made any comparisons. When I heard it I thought it was a quite fun listen but nothing like the Naim streamers or CD players.

Another streamer which is really good is Meridian MC200 with a integrated 500gb harddrive. It has a nice sound which reminds me of rega turntables and musically it is about the same as ND5 XS.

Would be really interesting to make proper comparisons to Linn DS, maybe next year..

Azazello · Post by **Azazello** » 2011-12-28 22:07

Most of the posts deleted.

This thread is about digital streamers and the forum rules apply as usual: Tune-dem is the common reference and everybody (except me) needs to be polite and informative. Not all of the deleted posts were breaking the rules, but I couldn’t find any useful information in them either, so I thought a fresh start would be best.

Let’s try again :)

/Az

Paaf · Post by **Paaf** » 2012-03-01 15:07

The Naim streamers have three digital inputs. Personally, I would gladly connect my CD, TV and Bluray into the streamer and use its builtin DAC. As far as I know, the Linn DS do not have any inputs, except the DSMs of course.

Naim ND5XS costs 22490kr here, a little more than a Linn Majik DS.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2012-03-01 22:29

Paaf wrote:The Naim streamers have three digital inputs. Personally, I would gladly connect my CD, TV and Bluray into the streamer and use its builtin DAC. As far as I know, the Linn DS do not have any inputs, except the DSMs of course.

Naim ND5XS costs 22490kr here, a little more than a Linn Majik DS.

Depending on your version of a little more, the Majik DSM is a little more than a Majik DS and includes six digital inputs, three optical and three coax, and also a pretty darn good preamp and power amp. You might want to check this out as a possibility.

Paaf · Post by **Paaf** » 2012-03-02 00:18

The topic is non-Linn. :) But sure, that would probably be my choice too, although the MDSM price is 32000 here I think.

(Edit: and I was wrong, the Naim one is slightly less than the MDS here.)

marmite · Post by **marmite** » 2012-03-02 04:51

I noticed that Plinius have released a network streamer (called Tiki) which seems to be closer to Linn in design than most others. Not sure of pricing but it looks nice.http://www.pliniusaudio.nzld.com/produc ... .asp#specs[/url]

Cheers
Paul

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2012-03-02 06:32

marmite wrote:I noticed that Plinius have released a network streamer (called Tiki) which seems to be closer to Linn in design than most others. Not sure of pricing but it looks nice.http://www.pliniusaudio.nzld.com/produc ... .asp#specs[/url]

Cheers
Paul

Interesting. I like the look of this:

DLNA Digital Audio Renderer: DLNA 1.0/1.5 compatible
Supported Audio File Server: DLNA Digital Media Servers
Supported Playback Control: DLNA Digital Media Controllers, DLNA Mobile Digital Media Controllers, UPnP smartphone applications, iPad/iPod applications

But it doesn't look like it'll do 192/24 which is a shame:

DAC capability: 24 bit, 96ks/s
Audio Codec Support: FLAC (up to 24/96), LPCM (up to 24/96), AIFF, MP3

Do we know anything about pricing?

marmite · Post by **marmite** » 2012-03-02 09:53

Found this euro price list, not sure where they are though.

http://www.tehno-market.md/plinius-pric ... 201229.pdf

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2012-03-02 17:54

Getting back on topic. ;-) Simaudio MOON are getting into the streaming audio market as well and in an interesting way. They have announced the MOON 180 MIND (MOON Intelligent Network Device - who comes up with these acronyms?) at $1500. This is a wired or wireless network streamer that is UPnP compatible WITHOUT a DAC! It handles accepting streams in all the popular formats and sends it out digitally to your choice of DAC. It supports up to 24/192 files and is reported to handle all the same formats that Linn streamers do including Apple Lossless and Ogg Vorbis.

This is an interesting way of doing it as you can connect this to your choice of DAC or also to one of the CD players with DAC connections and choose your level of perfromance. It remains to be seen how well this will compete musically with an integrated solution like the Linn DS streamers but it certainly is an interesting take on the idea. Some information can be found here:

http://www.simaudio.com/newproducts.htm

Further down the page at this link there is also their new 380D DAC which I believe is in the $3500 to $3800 range. The interesting thing about this DAC as far as this discussion goes is that there will be an internal MIND module available shortly that will turn it into an integrated media renderer like the Linn units. Also there is a remote-controlled volume circuit with both balanced and unbalanced outputs available as an option. With these options installed and the 8 other digital inputs included it is positioned to be a direct competitor to Linn DSM units although it does not have HDMI inputs.

The units based on this MIND technology are supposed to support UPnP streaming, internet radio and "subscriber-based music services" from computers or a NAS so it will be interesting to see how they implement it and if they have their own control point software or what others they might recommend. We are having a musical event at the store next Thursday, March 8th from 5PM to 9PM which will feature Simaudio MOON as well as Vienna Acoustics and Nordost and MOON have said they are bring one of the 180 MIND units to demonstrate. We will see how well it works and how it is controlled then.

I really don't think it will be long before you will have to have streaming units in your line to be taken seriously if you are a Hi-Fi electronics manufacturer. Personally I believe the reason you see the proliferation of USB DACs is that the companies know that computer based audio is the way things are going but they don't have the software engineering talent to develop a proper streamer or it is taking more time for their software guys to come up with it. But it still strikes me as totally unacceptable for a supposed high-end American Hi-Fi company to announce a $20,000 DAC without streaming capabilities at this late date. Also expect things to get even more exciting next week as Apple is announcing the iPad 3 and is rumored to also be announcing high-res music availability on the iTunes store. Once we have 24 bit audio files availability from Apple it will blow this whole market wide open!

Paaf · Post by **Paaf** » 2012-03-02 18:34

Suppose we find a good DAC that takes care of jitter and other problems.

Would then the choice of transport be less important, as long as it does what we want (all formats, FLAC, 24 bits, high freq, UPnP etc) plus outputs a digital signal reasonable enough for the DAC's error correction?

Example: Squeezebox Duet plus a Benchmark DAC1. The latter claim excellent jitter correction.

I would love to hear how it would compare to say a Sneaky (similar price).

hcl · Post by **hcl** » 2012-03-02 19:43

Paaf wrote:Suppose we find a good DAC that takes care of jitter and other problems.

Would then the choice of transport be less important, as long as it does what we want (all formats, FLAC, 24 bits, high freq, UPnP etc) plus outputs a digital signal reasonable enough for the DAC's error correction?

Example: Squeezebox Duet plus a Benchmark DAC1. The latter claim excellent jitter correction.

I would love to hear how it would compare to say a Sneaky (similar price).

Any implementation relying on the spdif interface will always have to be more complex and thus more expensive than an integrated solution (requires jitter supression). More flexible yes, but also more complex. The spdif interface introduces jitter that the DAC have to take extraordinary measures to overcome. Integrating the transport and DAC is thus a better solution. Another point is that the transport will always be important anyhow - because the jitter reduction is only practically possible down to a certain lower frequency (the users do not like too much delay from when pressing play to the music starts playing).

malpa · Post by **malpa** » 2012-03-17 23:05

chord qbd76, have you had a chance to compare it to linn ds.
i compared it to Klimax ds. :-)