Playground for practical listening exercises

[beck]

I prefer C

[Kalle05]

C is better, S is a bit to ”soft”

[springwood64]

This was a bit of a surprise for me. I also prefer C.

S: Spotify on Mac Mini M4 and Källa
C: £26 DVD/CD USB player connected to Mac Mini M4 and Källa, played through the Music app.

This seems to break source first thinking. I expected the CD to sound quite poor.

It's good news as far as I'm concerned, and I'm buying cheap used CDs (they cost around £3 each!) of albums that are unavailable or too expensive on LP.

[Charlie1]

Interesting. Is it breaking source first though? I don’t know. Perhaps this is a comparison of the source file used by Spotify vs the source file used to make the CD? Or is it a comparison of Spotify servers vs a CD mechanism? How do Spotify get their music? Is it transferred from the record label or from CD? If CD, do they identify which issue?

[matthias]

This seems to break source first thinking. I expected the CD to sound quite poor.

I don't think that it is breaking source first thinking, CD might be better than Spotify.
Would be interesting to make the same comparison with Qobuz.

[Charlie1]

Found this on Spotify forum...

"Spotify gets the master files from the artist, and then Spotify does its own conversion to lossy format.

The format that Spotify uses is OGG Vorbis (with a tiny modification to add a header that allows seeking with cache files). OGG Vorbis is one of the best lossy CODECs quality-wise and is also open source and patent free. Spotify streams at 160kbps for free users on the desktop application and web-player, and premium users can stream the 320kbps versions."

Seems that publishers send the highest quality file they have so I don't see how you could really tally up a CD to a Spotify stream, especially older CDs.

Are you finding CD is better all the time springwood? I guess that's all that matters and not what's going on behind the scenes.

[springwood64]

Found this on Spotify forum...

"Spotify gets the master files from the artist, and then Spotify does its own conversion to lossy format.

The format that Spotify uses is OGG Vorbis (with a tiny modification to add a header that allows seeking with cache files). OGG Vorbis is one of the best lossy CODECs quality-wise and is also open source and patent free. Spotify streams at 160kbps for free users on the desktop application and web-player, and premium users can stream the 320kbps versions."

Seems that publishers send the highest quality file they have so I don't see how you could really tally up a CD to a Spotify stream, especially older CDs.

Are you finding CD is better all the time springwood? I guess that's all that matters and not what's going on behind the scenes.

I have only compared a handful of albums, but I have preferred the CDs for those that I have compared. I only own 6 CDs!

I find Spotify engrossing and enjoyable with Källa, but I also like owning the CDs. It won't matter if they are not available via streaming, and I can avoid being annoyed with Spotify's use of 'deluxe' album mixes instead of the original CD releases.

The fact that CDs sound better on my system is an unexpected delight, but not my main motivation for getting CDs.

Plus: the CD drive only cost £26!! The cheapest and best CD player I have ever owned (if you ignore the cost of the Mac and Källa) - and the only one that brings the same amount of enjoyment as vinyl. I won't have any qualms about the cd drive dying.

[Charlie1]

Sounds like a win-win :)

Browsing through second hand music to build your collection (on CD or LP) can be an enjoyable hobby in itself, especially if you are the type of personality that likes to collect things.

[tokenbrit]

This was a bit of a surprise for me...

C: £26 DVD/CD USB player connected to Mac Mini M4 and Källa, played through the Music app.

AirPlay from Mini to Kalla? CD being played, or ripped & replayed? Could you share more details on the player, please? (thinking of getting a Mini M4 myself, so good to know what works with it)

[springwood64]

AirPlay from Mini to Kalla? CD being played, or ripped & replayed? Could you share more details on the player, please? (thinking of getting a Mini M4 myself, so good to know what works with it)

Yes AirPlay from Mini to Källa, the CD played direct via the Music app.

This is the CD drive: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B072JTF8RP? ... asin_title (NOLYTH CD Drive)

[lejonklou]

That is a very cool finding, Pete!

[Spannko]

Would you mind doing this comparison again Pete please. I usually try and listen to clips without reading the opinions of others, but I failed on this occasion so I can’t rule out expectation bias. Also, the GJ track is heavily dynamic range compressed (DR7) and no doubt manipulated in all manner of other ways to make it sound acceptable in loud environments and on suboptimal playback systems. Have you got a cd which isn’t so compressed and also hasn’t been remastered at a later date, which usually means that it has had a higher level of compression applied, and will be the version streamed by Spotify. I know it’s not an easy ask, but hopefully you’ll have a suitable cd in your collection.

[springwood64]

Have you got a cd which isn’t so compressed and also hasn’t been remastered at a later date, which usually means that it has had a higher level of compression applied, and will be the version streamed by Spotify.

My collection is currently rather tiny. How would I tell the compression level?

[Sopper]

dr.loudness-war.info

Shows dynamic range of albums

[Spannko]

Would you mind doing this comparison again Pete please. I usually try and listen to clips without reading the opinions of others, but I failed on this occasion so I can’t rule out expectation bias. Also, the GJ track is heavily dynamic range compressed (DR7) and no doubt manipulated in all manner of other ways to make it sound acceptable in loud environments and on suboptimal playback systems. Have you got a cd which isn’t so compressed and also hasn’t been remastered at a later date, which usually means that it has had a higher level of compression applied, and will be the version streamed by Spotify. I know it’s not an easy ask, but hopefully you’ll have a suitable cd in your collection.

As Sopper suggests, use dr.loudness-war.info

Try albums released prior to about 1992. Look for a DR of >12 and having not being remastered since release. This is absolutely not guaranteed to indicate highly musical recordings, but it’s a reasonable first level filter.

[fatjulio]

You should try a rip of a CD with EAC to compare against the play back of the optical drive.

[springwood64]

Thanks for the suggestions. It'll be a week or so before I can do more clips.

[springwood64]

Would you mind doing this comparison again Pete please. I usually try and listen to clips without reading the opinions of others, but I failed on this occasion so I can’t rule out expectation bias. Also, the GJ track is heavily dynamic range compressed (DR7) and no doubt manipulated in all manner of other ways to make it sound acceptable in loud environments and on suboptimal playback systems. Have you got a cd which isn’t so compressed and also hasn’t been remastered at a later date, which usually means that it has had a higher level of compression applied, and will be the version streamed by Spotify. I know it’s not an easy ask, but hopefully you’ll have a suitable cd in your collection.

Thanks for the suggestions. It'll be a week or so before I can do more clips.

Managed to find time to do the clips today:

A: https://photos.app.goo.gl/SYQxzoQcoK6szoM78
B: https://photos.app.goo.gl/AatZvYdkyaSXekoG7

[Kalle05]

I like A better than B

[matthias]

A for me

[Spannko]

I prefer B and I'm guessing that it’s Källa 🤞

[Tendaberry]

A for me as well.

[Whatsmynaim]

I prefer A, which I'm guessing is a CD playing through Källa.
But it'll interesting once "Music Pro" is added to Spotify. The lossless audio could result in a step up in both sound quality and musicality.

[David Neel]

I prefer B, it is more coherent musically

[tpetsch]

A is more in tune.