Defender wrote: ↑2020-11-27 19:46 being more impressed than before does that also lift the Karousel over the Cirkus benchmark in your opinion?

I don't know. But it was the first time with a Karousel that I felt really connected.

This wasn't my LP12 but a customer's.

Efraim roots wrote: ↑2020-11-28 02:13 Exciting report Thomas! I will definitely try the 2.6+5 setting again! It was my first test just after i loosened my very tight original installation which had been running in for months. So maybe that's just not a fair comparison. Excited to hear that Lejonklou installed a karousel too :)

Just a reminder to try from around 2.6 +3 to 2.6 +7 in one notch increments in case your driver is a little different from mine and Fredrik's. That will probably be enough to cover it as these drivers generally seem to be pretty close together, but if 2.6 +7 sounds best try 2.6 +8. I always go until it starts to get worse and then back off.

Here are some clips of two torques with a provisionally covered tv. What do you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqjr4kz9pkugd ... 2.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ymuq7ic8outwi ... 7.mov?dl=0

I prefer the second clip.

I also find the 2nd clip much more pleasant to listen to.

I vastly prefer the 2nd clip

M.

Much of a muchness ...Both sounded confusing to me ,but I think that could be the video playback.

2nd

Well, so you all agree with me. The first is Karousel with 3,5 Nm, the second is Thomas' recommended 2,6 + 5 clicks. In the room 2,6 +5 is vastly better.

A bit late, but I prefer the second clip too. Clip 1 left me feeling cold, but clip 2 was quite funkay!

Tendaberry wrote: ↑2020-11-29 21:37 Well, so you all agree with me. The first is Karousel with 3,5 Nm, the second is Thomas' recommended 2,6 + 5 clicks. In the room 2,6 +5 is vastly better.

I'm a bit late to the party too but wow...that ain't subtle! Thanks for posting those.

So, has Linn unwillingly hit the jackpot by making a bearing that can be tuned to the satisfaction of “audiophiles” (higher torques) and old school tune demmers (2.6 + 5)?! :-)

Late to the party too! The first clip had me distracted very quickly, wondering why the music had been selected. The second clip took about five seconds to convince.

Tendaberry wrote: ↑2020-11-29 15:07 Here are some clips of two torques with a provisionally covered tv. What do you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqjr4kz9pkugd ... 2.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ymuq7ic8outwi ... 7.mov?dl=0

I'm for second clip.

Another late one for the second.

Is it me or is this kind of overwhelming majority increasingly rare, maybe as many seek out increasingly marginal improvements?

I don't know about "overwhelming majority", Oscar... It looks like the cat preferred the first clip ;)

Is this a 'new' Karousel, 'berry, or has it had some run-time?

Now I've tried the 2.6+5 setting again, coming from 3.4+4. I also tried the 4.0-3 setting which was my first stop.

I must have messed up the setting for 2.6+5 the first time around, I see from my notes that they have different reference for 2.6 (I write down the setting relative to a reference mark on the driver). I was probably a little eager since this was my first try ever to torque the karousel and focused mostly on getting the process right.

This third time around I'm getting close and I was very careful to get 2.6 just right! I tried 2.6+4 and 2.6+5 and I must say that that last 2.6+5 is truly great. I said before something like the low setting sounded like it 'trying to be a refined cirkus', the high setting sounded more like it 'was being itself'. But now when I got the 2.6+5 right I say this sounds like the essence of LP12!

Maybe I try a few more notches just in case our drivers a little off. Actually when I tried ThomasOK values for LP12 I have been a little surprised that settings exactly match.

Efraim - I see you thought the same like I did making the adjustments from a reference setting - I thought if I use the 1.6 +1notch for the arm I can use that as reference to go from there in complete 0.2Nm turns and know where 2.6Nm should be ... however Fredrik told me thats not the way to go - so it always leaves us to get the initial start setting right

tokenbrit wrote: ↑2020-11-30 14:31 I don't know about "overwhelming majority", Oscar... It looks like the cat preferred the first clip ;)

Is this a 'new' Karousel, 'berry, or has it had some run-time?

Mine is definitely run in, I've had it since the end of April.

Defender wrote: ↑2020-11-30 19:21 Efraim - I see you thought the same like I did making the adjustments from a reference setting - I thought if I use the 1.6 +1notch for the arm I can use that as reference to go from there in complete 0.2Nm turns and know where 2.6Nm should be ... however Fredrik told me thats not the way to go - so it always leaves us to get the initial start setting right

I used a magnifying glass to set the 2,6 Nm precisely and then added the 5 clicks. And no, I haven't tried +4 or +6 clicks, because +5 clicks felt so overwhelmingly right.

Tendaberry wrote: ↑2020-12-01 11:17

Defender wrote: ↑ Efraim - I see you thought the same like I did making the adjustments from a reference setting - I thought if I use the 1.6 +1notch for the arm I can use that as reference to go from there in complete 0.2Nm turns and know where 2.6Nm should be ... however Fredrik told me thats not the way to go - so it always leaves us to get the initial start setting right

I used a magnifying glass to set the 2,6 Nm precisely and then added the 5 clicks. And no, I haven't tried +4 or +6 clicks, because +5 clicks felt so overwhelmingly right.

I agree. You can hear it even just listening to the clip. :-)

beck wrote: ↑2020-12-01 14:32

Tendaberry wrote: ↑2020-12-01 11:17

Defender wrote: ↑ Efraim - I see you thought the same like I did making the adjustments from a reference setting - I thought if I use the 1.6 +1notch for the arm I can use that as reference to go from there in complete 0.2Nm turns and know where 2.6Nm should be ... however Fredrik told me thats not the way to go - so it always leaves us to get the initial start setting right

I used a magnifying glass to set the 2,6 Nm precisely and then added the 5 clicks. And no, I haven't tried +4 or +6 clicks, because +5 clicks felt so overwhelmingly right.

I agree. You can hear it even just listening to the clip. :-)

I agree (surprise, surprise) that clip 2 is easily more musical. I found Clip 1 boring and Clip 2 engaging to the point I listened to the entire clip and would have listened to more.

I replied to this post because of the emphasis beck put on Tendaberry's comment that 2.6+5 felt overwhelmingly right. I was trying to indicate the same thing when I said that I didn't bother rechecking around that torque on my last set of tests because it just sounded so right. Every time I have applied that torque to a Karousel/Keel I have felt the music was just as it was supposed to be - "overwhelmingly right" hits the nail on the head. I get that same feeling when I use 3.4Nm even on a Kore or Majik sub chassis. I don't know why it is better lower on the Keel but I'm more interested in what works than I am in why. At least when it comes to things like this.

By the way, my experience is that these torque drivers do tend to be pretty close. Mine is one notch different from Fredrik's at .4Nm but by .6Nm they are the same and appear to stay that way above there. That is pretty close when we are only talking about .02Nm pre notch.

Tendaberry wrote: ↑2020-11-29 15:07 Here are some clips of two torques with a provisionally covered tv. What do you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqjr4kz9pkugd ... 2.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ymuq7ic8outwi ... 7.mov?dl=0

With my big surprise, 2.6 +5 is way better than 3.5!
I'll try 2.6 +5 soon and report back.
Thanks Tendaberry and Thomas

I transferred the new value to the Karousel and it is much better than 4Nm. Much better actually means more musicality. It reminds me of the step from EKOS II to EKOS/SE. Maybe a touch too much, but guess the direction is right.

Thanks to Thomas for his tireless work to improve the LP12 and to share his experiences.

Hermann wrote: ↑2020-12-03 09:49 Maybe a touch too much, but guess the direction is right.

I think I know what you are hinting at Hermann.

To me you either accept that sounds have to come together and blend to get a proper musical performance or you accept to loose some of it in exchange of separation.

Linn went for separation with their recommended 4.0 nm torque.