Karousel

[Defender]

Clip 1 to an interesting margin - what seems unstructured in this song is having structure in Clip 1
in Clip 2 it stays unstructured

Can I ask what kind of music that is - really like it.

[tokenbrit]

My phone says it is: Sky Is The Limit (Dub) - Rebelution*. With you (& Charlie1) on the structure (& sense) being there more with 1...

Kinda feel it could've been 'Ska Is The Limit...' :)

[Defender]

My phone says it is: Sky Is The Limit (Dub) - Rebelution*. With you (& Charlie1) on the structure (& sense) being there more with 1...

Kinda feel it could've been 'Ska Is The Limit...' :)

Thank you!

[Tony Tune-age]

I enjoy clip 1 more especially about 40 sec onwards once the track has settled into its enjoyable rhythm. Just makes more sense to me and comes together better.

Both sound really good though. If I wasn't hung up on vintage Linn Kans and Briks then I'd defo explore these old Quad speakers.

To my ears, clip 1 does sound better than clip 2...but not by very much (although if I listen again, I might change my mind). In fact, I hear more of a difference between the two clips Thomas posted on 10-13-2020, than these two clips. However to my ears, all four clips do demonstrate just how nice a full-spec LP12 can sound on a variety of systems!

In addition, I do understand about being hung up on the Linn Kans and original Linn Isobarik speakers. The Kans have always sounded way above their weight class for sure! And for me, the original Isobarik speakers are hard to beat from a musical and financial perspective! Just can't afford to part with them.

Cheers

[Spannko]

Clip 2 every day of the week, including sundays! 😁

[Ron The Mon]

Clip 2 for me (but not by much).

Is this Simon's system?

[lejonklou]

Clip 1 for me, it has a groove and a vibe.

Clip 2 feels rushed and lacks tension.

[Matteo]

I prefer the bass in the clip 2

M.

[ThomasOK]

Clip 2 for me (but not by much).

Is this Simon's system?

Yes, this is Simon's system.

[Nicolav]

Clip 1 for me

[springwood64]

I seem to be hearing less in Clip 2, especially the reverb on the bass around 11s in.

This makes it easier for me to follow clip 2. Clip 1 sounds a bit like the notes are stumbling over each other at times

However, I prefer the sound of Clip 1.

How's that for a bit of fence straddling

Great track. Played it on the Hakai and it got instant approval from the audience (I'm ignoring the comment from my youngest about 'Dad music')

[ThomasOK]

Yes, this is from the Rebelution album Peace of Mind. But you have to careful when getting the album. I heard them on the TV system in the store where we are always looking for new music and concerts to play. I ordered the album I saw on Amazon and it turned out to be the DUB version. I didn't know at the time there were different versions but I really like it. The whole album is quite good and has some quite low bass. (An interesting aside is that the spectrum analyzer on my iPhone shows a few strong notes in the mid 30Hz range - Quads aren't supposed to go below around 45Hz. Shows what they know!) Simon liked the album and ordered it only to find his copy was quite different, it even had a different color cover. I looked it up and found out that they have a new way to make money - just bring out three different versions of the same album! One is the standard one, which is what Simon got, one is the DUB version that I bought and the third is an acoustic version. We both liked mine the best and Simon bought a DUB version too. The DUB version has more and deeper bass and almost no vocals. The vocals on the regular version don't do that much for me so I'm fine without them. So I'd check them out on the web before you pick one up.

[V.A.MKD]

Clip 1 for me ... It's like everything is on it place.
Clip 2 is like something is missing between ...

[Matteo]

https://www.discogs.com/Rebelution-Peac ... se/5341842

[Spannko]

The voting seems fairly even on this one, so I’ve had another listen. I still prefer clip 2 for it’s dub vibe, whereas clip 1 seems to be slightly out of tune and appears to struggle with the dub rhythms.

[anthony]

Clip 1 seems more natural.

[Spannko]

Hmm. Very interesting 🤔 We’ve got some very experienced listeners hearing something quite different. I’m intrigued to know what we’ve been listening to.

[Charlie1]

In addition, I do understand about being hung up on the Linn Kans and original Linn Isobarik speakers. The Kans have always sounded way above their weight class for sure! And for me, the original Isobarik speakers are hard to beat from a musical and financial perspective! Just can't afford to part with them.

Sorry, forgot to come back and respond. Yes, God knows what you'd have to spend to clearly beat them.

[beck]

Hmm. Very interesting 🤔 We’ve got some very experienced listeners hearing something quite different. I’m intrigued to know what we’ve been listening to.

https://youtu.be/nX7CeTXoxyU

[Spannko]

Hmm. Very interesting 🤔 We’ve got some very experienced listeners hearing something quite different. I’m intrigued to know what we’ve been listening to.

https://youtu.be/nX7CeTXoxyU

¿Qué?

[John]

Well, I think I have the Karousel tomorrow. My dealer sent it out yesterday. I'll have it installed in the next few days, probably Monday. The only question is the torque, which according to Peter @Cymbiosis should be 4Nm for the Keel. Also the question how far the Sturtevant tool can be used.

Yes, I believe the Sturtevant tool should be adequate. It goes up to 4Nm, which is the recommended setting for Majik, Kore and Keel sub-chassis. It also has the ability to go a little above that and below it to find the precise correct torque (which is likely to be different for the Keel than for the Kore and Majik). That assumes it is not much higher than the recommendation. You will need a 20mm socket for the Karousel top.

However, the recommended torque for the steel sub-chassis is 5Nm, which will require a different tool. I have on order a small precision torque wrench, mostly sold to bicyclists, that goes from 1Nm to 8Nm and allows continuous adjustment. So it can cover all the range needed. I will have to play with it a bit to see how to properly quantify small torque adjustments but I'll probably have it before I get the Karousel. With it I will be able to check a little bit higher than the Sturtevant goes to see if there is a better value up there. I will report my findings whenever I am able to get a Karousel.

Can anyone point me to a supplier of a 20mm socket with a quarter inch drive is such a thing exists?

[Freddy]

Clip 1:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u7awkk250ezig ... M.mov?dl=0

Clip 2:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hix4flxkyug79 ... M.mov?dl=0

Think I like 2 better.

[Spannko]

My guess is 1 is Karousel and 2 is Cirkus 🙊

[Tony Tune-age]

We even makeshift mounted the Karousel bearing into the pre-Cirkus subchassis

It seems the Karousel bearing is designed more for aluminium sub chasis. For me, Karousel bearing with Kore is an improvement on the previous Cirkus bearing. But I have kept my Cirkus bearing in case Karousel deteriorates over time...

My experiences were very similar. On my deck, the Karousel bearing system sounds much better with the Keel, than the Cirkus bearing ever did. However, I gave my Cirkus bearing system away for free to someone that didn't already have one.

[ThomasOK]

It has been pointed out to me via a PM that I am responsible for a dereliction of duty in not explaining the last two clips made at Simon's place. I beg forgiveness but will state that there have been extenuating circumstances such as the endlessly drawn out election over here, several turntables to work on this week and a near brush with COVID-19. Before anybody gets worried we are all OK at Overture Audio. But one of the guys here had contact with a couple who came down with COVID-19 six days later. They believed they had gotten it from a relative two days before his visit so we were all concerned as we had all been working together the week before he found out. So we tried to take the best measures with him self-quarantining and getting a test and the other three of us also getting tested. We also informed customers and went back to appointment only with contactless pickup offered. Fortunately yesterday he and I both received negative results, the other two should receive results today but there is no reason now to think they won't be negative as well. So next week we should be back to more normal business although we may keep on an appointment basis since the infection rates are rising in Michigan again as they are through most of the US.

So with that preamble the clips are of Simon's system which is a Klimax LP12 with Karousel and a Koetsu Rosewood Signature cartridge and an Audio Research Reference 2 phono stage. The rest of the system is a Rega Apollo CD player (quite musical for the money), a Fanfare FT-1A FM tuner, Sagatun 1.4 and Tundra 2.5 stereo units and the 62 year old Quads I used at the Axpona Hi-Fi show in 2019 but with black grills and special hardwood side panels/legs that I stained and finished for him. A CablePro Revelation outlet strip (now sadly unavailable), Lejonklou latest power cables, Linn Silvers and 2.48m black K200 plus a Mimer rack complete the setup.

The comparison is between my original torque on the Karousel of 4.0Nm -2 notches in Clip 1 vs. my latest (and I hope final) torque of 2.6Nm +5 notches in Clip 2. No other changes were made to the system.

Those with eagle eyes will notice that this is a different torque than the 2.6 +3 I had used in the comparison on my system. After a little reconsideration, based in part on only having compared torques on a Klimax LP12 with Urika and Nordost cables, I decided to do some more testing. I started with the store demo Klimax table with Urika and Linn Silvers and, while I still preferred 2.6 +3 to 4.0 -2, there was something about the lower one that still didn't seem quite optimal. So I tried a handful of other torques in the area and the 2.6 +5 is where the music really all came together. I then did the 2.6Nm +3 vs. +5 on my own LP12 with Simon listening and we both felt the +5 really brought it all together. The above clips were then done when I switched Simon's table over to the 2.6 +5 setting which we both felt really improved his system noticeably. I find it interesting and surprising that 4.0Nm -2 sounds quite good (but not the best) on Keel, Kore and Majik sub chassis, but 3.4 is not good on Keel and around 2.6 is not good on Kore and Majik. So my recommended torque for the Karousel to a Keel is now 2.6Nm + 5 notches. However, for the Kore and Majik the torques in the 2.6Nm range just don't work. For them a torque of 3.4Nm even is the best I have found.

There is another thing that has complicated my life and has made the clips I have done over the last month or so on my system suspect. It turns out my Ekos SE/1 is defective. It has excessive vertical friction which sometimes causes it to track to light. Once I noticed it behaving oddly I put it on my gauge and it showed 1.35 grams, which then increased to 1.85 over the period of about 20 seconds. It is at Linn for repair. So I fitted my Ekos 2 and Adikt and plugged it into a Slipsik 7.1. It still sounds wonderful. So no more clips from my system until I get my system back together with the repaired Ekos SE/1 and my Sagatun Monos.

By the way, while I was writing this the AP called Pennsylvania, and hence the election, for Biden. I have tried to avoid politics on here but I can't pretend I'm not very happy.