Playground for practical listening exercises

[Tendaberry]

Well, I wish I could afford a rack by Harmonihyllan, but I can’t. So I have to make the best of my Quadraspire rack. I guarantee you, it’s simply no competition at all between using just the Quadraspire and using it with the additional Baltic birch board on the Mini Spikes.

[tpetsch]

Well, I wish I could afford a rack by Harmonihyllan, but I can’t. So I have to make the best of my Quadraspire rack. I guarantee you, it’s simply no competition at all between using just the Quadraspire and using it with the additional Baltic birch board on the Mini Spikes.

I agree, that it may "sound" better, fuller but it's less in tune with those pads though, IMO. And yes, The Mini spikes may not be a bad thing in your case, an A/B would be interesting. But I have never in all my years ever heard any acoustic pad thingies make the tune better, but perhaps one day soon even I'll choose one in an A/B.

[markiteight]

Apparently I'm not going crazy...yet. That's a relief! I posted up those clips because I felt like I was hearing differences where there shouldn't be any, but it was possible what I heard was within the margin of bias, so I needed confirmation. Everyone who responded is in agreement with what I hear, B is better!

Just a thought, can the difference be caused by different warm-up time of the system?

It's possible but doubtful as only about 25 seconds elapse between the end of the first clip and the start of the second, and it only took that long because I start the recording about 20 seconds into the song.

What we're listening to is streamed from Spotify using the Spotify Connect plugin in Volumio. The difference is the device used as a control point. For clip A I started the track using the Spotify app on my computer. For clip B I just restarted the track using the Spotify app on my phone. That's the only difference.

It seems like the same phenomenon that makes the control point affect the performance on Källa is happening here as well, and these results are consistent with the list of Recommended Control Points as my computer (2019 16" MBP i9 over wifi) ranks lower than my phone (iPhone 13 Pro). Now I want to try an iPad Mini 6!

I definitely prefer B. A just sounds like it isn't quite coming together. B moves better and is more engaging. Nice job on the edit!

No editing done, just well timed starting/stopping of the recordings. For those not familiar with this song the verses are just spoken word with no music, the musicians only join in for the chorus.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. Interesting stuff!

[lejonklou]

Can you hear a difference between these two clips?

A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0lbglbr9vtz23 ... 9.MOV?dl=0

B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yk6tzes5vl3xl ... 0.MOV?dl=0

Late to the party, but I thought B was better already on the initial beatings on the drum. And the impression lasted.

[lejonklou]

Somehow I cannot get my recordings to sound as clear as they are in the room, but anyway, here we go with another comparison. Which one do you prefer?

1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tlk4b7tbptzui ... 1.mov?dl=0

2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ge9m77xvfihi ... 1.mov?dl=0

Late to the party, but I prefer 1.

EDIT: I now read about the pucks used in clip 2 and like tpetsch I am very skeptical of them. They seem to dampen and smear things.

If you'd like to continue these experiments, I would suggest using distances that are neither damped like the pucks nor as sharp as the cones. Those two are likely to be at extreme ends in how they affect the music. I would use something puck shaped, with flat surfaces top and bottom.

First vary the size of the surfaces, keeping the height fixed. Cutting 1 cm pieces of wooden rods of various diameters is an idea. When you have found the best diameters (top and bottom could be different), you can vary the height, which is likely to have just as big an impact.

Then you can vary the material from soft (eg rubber) to more firm (various woods and plastics) and hard (ceramics and metals). Likely each material will have its own optimal diameters and height. Then you can also try adding surfaces to the top and/or bottom, like thin felt or rubber. Finally you can machine them into various shapes, keeping the contact surfaces on the top and bottom the same. The experiments could keep you busy for a couple of years!

Brings back sweet memories of all the feet I tried on my products.

[Arjen]

Then you can vary the material from soft (eg rubber) to more firm (various woods and plastics) and hard (ceramics and metals). Likely each material will have its own optimal diameters and height. Then you can also try adding surfaces to the top and/or bottom, like thin felt or rubber. Finally you can machine them into various shapes, keeping the contact surfaces on the top and bottom the same. The experiments could keep you busy for a couple of years!

Brings back sweet memories of all the feet I tried on my products.

If you try making own footers, Don’t forget to try Blu Tack and listen to what change that might give in delivering music.

[Tendaberry]

Fredrik, big thanks for your very much valued opinion and advice. The matter isn’t by far closed…
Maybe it’s time to try a gift from a friend?

01CA98E2-A473-4C97-97AB-7718CECFD34A.jpeg

[lejonklou]

If you try making own footers, Don’t forget to try Blu Tack and listen to what change that might give in delivering music.

I have tried Blu tack and similar compounds many times. Never found it to be beneficial, though.

I place it in the same category as sorbothane, which is famous for its damping properties and has been popular among audiophiles. Never found any good use for sorbothane.

In general I would say that a good mechanical construction does not benefit from damping.

[lejonklou]

Fredrik, big thanks for your very much valued opinion and advice. The matter isn’t by far closed…
Maybe it’s time to try a gift from a friend?

01CA98E2-A473-4C97-97AB-7718CECFD34A.jpeg

Now those look really promising! :D

[springwood64]

Maybe it’s time to try a gift from a friend?

01CA98E2-A473-4C97-97AB-7718CECFD34A.jpeg

I love this on a number of levels: Avidly waiting for the clips ....

[tpetsch]

"The experiments could keep you busy for a couple of years!"

Brings back sweet memories of all the feet I tried on my products.

Quote of the month IMO. Fun stuff!

[Spannko]

In general I would say that a good mechanical construction does not benefit from damping.

This is my experience too. Every time I’ve tried to use damping, it’s had a detrimental effect on the music, even when a material is ringing like a bell. A resonating component can be improved, not by applying damping but by changing the components shape/material/interface with other materials.

Something I’ve never tried is using two super smooth/flat surfaces in contact with one another eg two 10mm lapped stainless steel discs - totally the opposite of a spike. It’s an extension of other interfaces I’ve found to work well and it may not work, but it’s something I’ll try one day. Generally, I’d say spikes or vibration “transducers” are not good for music, somewhere in between seems to work best.

[Arjen]

If you try making own footers, Don’t forget to try Blu Tack and listen to what change that might give in delivering music.

I have tried Blu tack and similar compounds many times. Never found it to be beneficial, though.

I place it in the same category as sorbothane, which is famous for its damping properties and has been popular among audiophiles. Never found any good use for sorbothane.

In general I would say that a good mechanical construction does not benefit from damping.

Good mechanical construction does not benefit from damping. But lots of devices are a compromise I think, which invite us to improve things, sound, musicality and involvement. That’s where fiddling with all kind of tweaks starts and the joy of trial and error and in the end expectation and also experience of prettier, sometimes very surprising results.

[Arjen]

Fredrik, big thanks for your very much valued opinion and advice. The matter isn’t by far closed…
Maybe it’s time to try a gift from a friend?

01CA98E2-A473-4C97-97AB-7718CECFD34A.jpeg

Tendaberry, these ones looking great. You can try Soundeck DF Damping Feet (from North Shield, Newcastle U)(4mm coasters like) sandwich between blocks and TT bottom for significant improvement, See Rick Becker’s LP12 setup (Enjoy the Music.com)

[markiteight]

Here's another round. GS108Tv2 vs. GS308T. Which do you prefer?

A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/us7dgnh19gkvc ... 2.MOV?dl=0

B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/exfyde2mhkhcr ... 1.MOV?dl=0

(Disregard the bell tone at ~38 seconds into the first clip. Text message notification.)

[lejonklou]

Not a huge difference between those two, but I got more into the first clip.

[tpetsch]

Something was instantly off about (B) for me tune wise.. So (A) for me too.

[tokenbrit]

1st/A/0222 for me

[Charlie1]

Enjoyed A more. More groovy for one thing

[Spannko]

A for me too.

[springwood64]

B seems to have lost some of the richness of A, so A for me.

[ThomasOK]

Both seemed pretty good. Overall I find A the better clip, B seemed to be pushing the drums somewhat and didn't hold together as well.

[markiteight]

It appears we have a clear winner. A is the 308T, B the 108Tv2, confirming previous findings.

I conducted this test similar to ThomasOK's, in that I used the same power supply and plug orientation for both units. However in this case I used the wallwart that was supplied with the 308T, simply because that's what was plugged in at the time. Since then I have compared with the 108's power supply, which I preferred, and checked plug orientation. I also checked orientation of the ethernet cables and found the one from switch to HAKAI was backwards.

Thanks again for all your feedback. The music just keeps getting better and better.

[Charlie1]

Great result Mi8 !

[markiteight]

The discussion of Netgear power supplies has been moved to the Recommended network components thread.

-Moderator