Playground for practical listening exercises

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2022-10-01 00:23

Thanks for the get well soon wishes everyone. I’ve tested +’ve for covid now too, but I’m sure I’ll be right as rain after a couple of paracetamol!

Thanks for your feedback too Fredrik. I think that because the recording is so quiet, it’s possible to hear the auto gain pumping in and out, so as you say, not a good comparison.

The recordings are of a Scanspeak tweeter vs a Hiquphon taken out of a pair of Linn speakers.

Offerdal · Post by **Offerdal** » 2022-10-02 08:23

O= Naim Fraim without equipment, 3levels
P= Harmonihyllan with Tor top shelf, 4 levels with equipment on level 2/3, nothing on level 1, beqause k-referens bottom shelf.

Offerdal · Post by **Offerdal** » 2022-10-02 08:31

New one

Q 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vyooj2u42y5lu4n/Q1.mov?dl=0

Q 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b45xtgsol0aye8u/Q2.mov?dl=0

Q 3
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kgodj80myehkrpb/Q3.mov?dl=0

R 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iqsg45g7e0lai3r/R1.mov?dl=0

R 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/38kyr9gi7x4wbid/R2.mov?dl=0

R 3
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6r5y51ghre45t0a/R3.mov?dl=0

beck · Post by **beck** » 2022-10-02 08:58

Interesting…. I prefer Q

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2022-10-02 13:57

I’ve had a quick listen, but tbh, I’m struggling to focus, so I’ll try again tomorrow. Today, I just need cake!

matthias · Post by **matthias** » 2022-10-02 14:20

Offerdal wrote: ↑2022-10-02 08:23 O= Naim Fraim without equipment, 3levels

I remember a discussion on the Naim Forum. The consensus was that the Fraim sounded best with at least one empty shelf below the top shelf but the glass sub shelf should be fitted in the empty shelf.

matthias · Post by **matthias** » 2022-10-02 17:43

tpetsch · Post by **tpetsch** » 2022-10-02 18:56

Offerdal wrote: ↑2022-10-02 08:23 O= Naim Fraim without equipment, 3levels
P= Harmonihyllan with Tor top shelf, 4 levels with equipment on level 2/3, nothing on level 1, beqause k-referens bottom shelf.

You're making me feel a little like a trained monkey without the treat at the end, how about you give us your in-the-room impressions after we all gave you our opinions between "O" & "P", also what exactly does "Naim Fraim without equipment, 3levels" mean?

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2022-10-02 20:39

Offerdal wrote: ↑2022-10-02 08:31 New one
...

Timing of Q vs expression of R - tough choice... probably have to go with Q as the timing distracts from the expression more in R than the other way around in Q.

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2022-10-02 22:05

Q for me too. Strangely, it was relatively easy to hear the differences this evening, whereas earlier today I really struggled. It’s interesting how the way we are feeling can effect our perception like that.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2022-10-02 23:27

Offerdal · Post by **Offerdal** » 2022-10-02 23:40

tpetsch wrote: ↑2022-10-02 18:56
Offerdal wrote: ↑2022-10-02 08:23 O= Naim Fraim without equipment, 3levels
P= Harmonihyllan with Tor top shelf, 4 levels with equipment on level 2/3, nothing on level 1, beqause k-referens bottom shelf.
You're making me feel a little like a trained monkey without the treat at the end, how about you give us your in-the-room impressions after we all gave you our opinions between "O" & "P", also what exactly does "Naim Fraim without equipment, 3levels" mean?

I felt that Fraim was better but the stressed feeling when every song goes on in 100% or boild over pan as earlier expression was made make me a bit tierd. Nice with uptempo songs but when A Ternheim is singing and want to give you another feeling it become a bit false. I gues this is a bit of the Naim PRAT and some people want to go that ways as far as possible.

Fraim 3 levels is three shelf with only the LP12 on it and the lowest and the middle shelf empty. For a totally equal comparison I Would have made the Harmonihyllan in the same way but then I had problems with all the boxes in my system and the second is that I would not like to use Harmonihyllan in that way. Anders have made one of those, the ”bord”that probably is better for the LP12.
I have No Trud at home so I cant make that test.

PaulC · Post by **PaulC** » 2022-10-04 10:16

Tendaberry · Post by **Tendaberry** » 2022-10-04 10:56

Late to the party, but Q for me too.

Offerdal · Post by **Offerdal** » 2022-10-04 18:17

Q= mana referens table (2 levels)
R= Audiotech table
LP12 with trampolin feet under urika.

I think we have come to the end with this LP12 shelftest. I Will continue with the manatable with trampolinfeet. Earlier thought that mana needs solidfeet but like What the trampolinfeet does. Will do a test of the feet sometime. The shelf changes the LP12 quite a bit. It could be a different result with another LP12, I dont Know.
A big Thanks for all your feedback!

beck · Post by **beck** » 2022-10-04 19:23

Thank you Offerdal for some very interesting clips!

I think your latest setup Q sounds very good indeed. :-)

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2022-10-04 19:25

Late to the party. I was on vacation last week so just catching back up on the forums. I only listened to track 1 but I preferred Q as well. It moves better than R which just doesn't quite do it.

Tendaberry · Post by **Tendaberry** » 2022-10-05 10:39

Offerdal wrote: ↑2022-10-04 18:17 Q= mana referens table (2 levels)
R= Audiotech table
LP12 with trampolin feet under urika.

I think we have come to the end with this LP12 shelftest. I Will continue with the manatable with trampolinfeet. Earlier thought that mana needs solidfeet but like What the trampolinfeet does. Will do a test of the feet sometime. The shelf changes the LP12 quite a bit. It could be a different result with another LP12, I dont Know.
A big Thanks for all your feedback!

Needless to ask really, but I guess you levelled the LP12 with a quality spirit level on each table?

Offerdal · Post by **Offerdal** » 2022-10-05 20:48

Yes, pretty exakt level on all shelves. With solid feet I could level the shelf and the plint was spot on. With urikafeet there was a small different but level the plint
Thanks Beck!

Post by **lejonklou** » 2022-10-05 21:07

Thank you for these very interesting clips, Offerdal!

You might already know this, but I will mention it anyway: The Trampolin (or Urika) feet need to be screwed all the way in. Although in theory they're adjustable, they're in practice not. I have several times compared LP12 leveled by the Trampolin feet with the feet screwed all the way in and the LP12 no longer being level. The later option sounds better.

Even better is of course to level the LP12-with-Trampolin-feet by adjusting the shelf it stands upon, until the plinth of the LP12 is level.

Tendaberry · Post by **Tendaberry** » 2022-10-06 11:10

Slightly off-topic, but I went a bit crazy and bought a very exact spirit level, with a maximum deviation of only 0,1 mm/m. The manufacturer is Stiefelmayer, but not exactly cheap at around € 30,- In the pic the LP12 isn't adjusted yet...

Level.JPG

Post by **lejonklou** » 2022-10-06 14:22

Beautiful tool.

I need one!

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2022-10-06 15:11

My dealer told me my Afro plinth is skewed so I know I can't rely on it. Instead, I just use a 12 inch level on the felt mat when levelling this deck. Obviously the level has to sit slightly off to one side to avoid the spindle. Is it really necessary to use the plinth? Surely a lightweight level won't tip the suspension.

tpetsch · Post by **tpetsch** » 2022-10-06 19:45

Charlie1 wrote: ↑2022-10-06 15:11 My dealer told me my Afro plinth is skewed so I know I can't rely on it. Instead, I just use a 12 inch level on the felt mat when levelling this deck. Obviously the level has to sit slightly off to one side to avoid the spindle. Is it really necessary to use the plinth? Surely a lightweight level won't tip the suspension.

Personally I think that's the better way to level a deck, your leveling the actual surface & both (x+y axis) upon which the record sits compared to the plinth which is somewhat detached from the platter on a suspended deck. In the pic above that's only accurately measuring the X axis FWIW, Y could be off many degrees while X still shows Zero bubble. I use one of these types of level personally -see pic- but even though your slightly off center with the type of level you're using you can just take several X&Y measurements, and if their all zero you're good to go. ..You could even drill a hole in the bottom -an inch away from the class bubble vile of course- of your level if you want to get crazy.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2022-10-06 23:05

tpetsch wrote: ↑2022-10-06 19:45 Personally I think that's the better way to level a deck, your leveling the actual surface & both (x+y axis) upon which the record sits compared to the plinth which is somewhat detached from the platter on a suspended deck. In the pic above that's only accurately measuring the X axis FWIW, Y could be off many degrees while X still shows Zero bubble. I use one of these types of level personally -see pic- but even though your slightly off center with the type of level you're using you can just take several X&Y measurements, and if their all zero you're good to go. ..You could even drill a hole in the bottom -an inch away from the class bubble vile of course- of your level if you want to get crazy.

Good to know - thanks tpetsch!

Playground for practical listening exercises

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