lejonklou wrote: ↑2022-01-05 18:20

Lego wrote: ↑2022-01-05 17:48 Ok I take it the reverse polarity thing is irrelevant with powered active speakers

As Kairn inverts the absolute phase of the music signal, you should invert hot and cold in the XLR end of the interconnect that connects to your JBL 308's.

If you have been listening with inverted absolute phase, I kind of doubt that this could alter the results of your mains power order experiment. It would be odd if it did.

Ok thanks Fredrik .

springwood64 wrote: ↑2022-01-05 08:07

Lego wrote: ↑2021-12-31 22:45 Ok here's .

1)LINGO1 KAIRN LINTO

2)LINGO1 LINTO KAIRN

3)KAIRN LINGO1 LINTO .....Maybe in that order.

PARSLEY

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U4WU3t ... p=drivesdk

SAGE

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U391uI ... p=drivesdk


ROSEMARY & THYME

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U2wB0S ... p=drivesdk

For me:
1 SAGE
2 PARSLEY
3 ROSEMARY & THYME

I'm very late to the party (not here during the holidays and busy my first day back to work). I agree with that ranking. I thought Sage was more musical than Parsley and didn't much care for Rosemary and Thyme.

I didn't read the other comments first but started scrolling back and saw this one so quoted it. Then I read more of the posts, went back and listened again and still I agree with this ranking.

Spannko wrote: ↑2021-12-31 19:38 I’ve decided to have a go at building a pair of speakers. I thought the first step would be to determine if drive units have an “innate musicality”, and if so, what is the magnitude of the differences.

So, here’s a couple of videos comparing a couple of woofers I just happen to have (ie they haven’t been chosen as candidates for the final build).

It’ll be interesting to see what differences you all hear in the clips.

Enjoy!

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B1253qWtHuohvLT

I like the second woofer (black cone), not nuts at all bout the first one.

beck wrote: ↑2022-01-04 16:38 So, as I try to get my cd replay as close as possible to my vinyl replay, it is always interesting to compare. How close can I get?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gqu5vlz8c40os ... 9.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/52a8zuh2luod3 ... 3.mov?dl=0

Beware the vinyl version is recorded a bit louder than the cd version….

You have gotten amazing sound out of that modest CD player. But the LP12 is...Simply Better.

Lego wrote: ↑2022-01-02 22:45
DAS

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VD6mPD ... p=drivesdk

MUSIKALISCHE

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ute09s ... p=drivesdk

OPFHER

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UeOBX- ... p=drivesdk

My ranking would be:

OPFHER - it connected me most with the music

DAS - a little laid back but still musical

MUSIKALISCHE - very clear but too much so, just didn't hold together or move me

ThomasOK wrote: ↑2022-01-05 21:26

Spannko wrote: ↑2021-12-31 19:38 I’ve decided to have a go at building a pair of speakers. I thought the first step would be to determine if drive units have an “innate musicality”, and if so, what is the magnitude of the differences.

So, here’s a couple of videos comparing a couple of woofers I just happen to have (ie they haven’t been chosen as candidates for the final build).

It’ll be interesting to see what differences you all hear in the clips.

Enjoy!

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B1253qWtHuohvLT

I like the second woofer (black cone), not nuts at all bout the first one.

Thanks for reminding me that I posted the comparisons! The little black one is a Katan bass unit. It’s a bit rough sounding, but fairly musical. The larger one is a Volt drive unit made for the Graham LS5/9.

ThomasOK wrote: ↑2022-01-05 21:38

Lego wrote: ↑2022-01-02 22:45
DAS

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VD6mPD ... p=drivesdk

MUSIKALISCHE

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ute09s ... p=drivesdk

OPFHER

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UeOBX- ... p=drivesdk

My ranking would be:

OPFHER - it connected me most with the music

DAS - a little laid back but still musical

MUSIKALISCHE - very clear but too much so, just didn't hold together or move me

HNY Thomas !

lejonklou wrote: ↑2022-01-05 20:43

John wrote: ↑2022-01-05 19:42 I had a dedicated 20 amp circuit run to a quad outlet for my Lingo, phono stage, line stage and power amp. It was suggested to me by the manufacturer’s rep that I should cut the plugs off the three amps and connect all three cords to one 20 amp plug.

Indeed that seems to make some sense in theory. I have tried it in several ways, but so far failed to make it perform any better than a good simple strip and regular power cords.

Another "solution" is to have a power strip that is wired with all outlets in parallel rather than in series. But I haven't ever heard that sounding any better.

I’m been wondering lately if there might be a better way of arranging the powering of our systems. Thinking about the neutral connections, I’ve a suspicion that they should not be star wired. Doing so would modulate the neutrals of the other components, which is not a good idea. There needs to be a gap between the connections, just wide enough to prevent cross modulation. I tried 10mm gaps a few years ago but it didn’t work. However, it’s recently occurred to me that the connections are spaced at about 25mm in a power strip, so given the currents involved, this may be more optimal? Maybe 20mm or even 50mm? With this arrangement, I’ve a suspicion that the highest varying current component should be nearest to the supply, followed by the second most varying current etc. I’m not sure about the “earth” returns. Maybe star wired, or closely connected (5mm?) in a similar fashion and order to the neutrals. As for the live connections, I’ve a suspicion that they should be connected in reverse order, so that the most sensitive components get their power first, similar to the way systems are usually powered now. As usual, there’s only one way to find out!

Lego wrote: ↑2022-01-03 15:14

Scooter62 wrote: ↑2022-01-03 09:35 MUSIKALISCHE ist für mich am musikalischsten. You can actually hear pitches of the bass line in addition to the rhythms being better delineated. The repeating percussion motif has a great sense of tension and the singer's diction (such that it is) gets more meaning across - I was surprised by the amount of difference here as the changes were the same as last time. Kairn first = MUSIKALISCHE per chance?

Hoping for all of you 2022 is a year full of peace, happiness, and good health. Prosperity would be great too, but would that be too much to hope for?

You too Soocter :0)

Hi Lego,
Now I'm wondering if you're running up against a very live space and perhaps could benefit from some Room Tuning? A few well placed diffusers and/or a well placed rug perhaps to take some of the room edge off? ...Just a thought.

beck wrote: ↑2022-01-05 19:23

beck wrote: ↑ So, as I try to get my cd replay as close as possible to my vinyl replay, it is always interesting to compare. How close can I get?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gqu5vlz8c40os ... 9.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/52a8zuh2luod3 ... 3.mov?dl=0

Beware the vinyl version is recorded a bit louder than the cd version….

Thank you for the comments! :-)

Think I just now got even closer to the vinyl version:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/srfhkhn3x9c76 ... 1.mov?dl=0

Thank you Thomas for your comment. You are absolutely right that the vinyl (Sondek) version is better.

What I find deadly interesting is that I seem to be able to go on improving the cd version getting very near the vinyl version and in that proces something interesting happens.

The cd’s I previously found to be musical but sounding bad becomes quite good sounding. Remastered versions also keep the musicality of the “original” and sounds good but different.

The nearer I get the “vinyl sound” the better I can appreciate any cd.


What I notice now is that when listening to cd the music just flows by like when listening to vinyl.

beck wrote: ↑2022-01-06 10:03

What I notice now is that when listening to cd the music just flows by like when listening to vinyl.

That is really pretty impressive, and very satisfying for you. I'll bet you relish both the journey of discovery and the cumulative benefits of the gains you've made. Much more satisfying than if you'd gone out and bought a better device.

springwood64 wrote: ↑2022-01-06 10:28

beck wrote: ↑

What I notice now is that when listening to cd the music just flows by like when listening to vinyl.

That is really pretty impressive, and very satisfying for you. I'll bet you relish both the journey of discovery and the cumulative benefits of the gains you've made. Much more satisfying than if you'd gone out and bought a better device.

It is very satisfying indeed. :-)

What also drives me (apart from the music) is a search for some “real truth” in this very confusing hifi world………………..

:-)

tpetsch wrote: ↑2022-01-06 03:19

Lego wrote: ↑2022-01-03 15:14

Scooter62 wrote: ↑2022-01-03 09:35 MUSIKALISCHE ist für mich am musikalischsten. You can actually hear pitches of the bass line in addition to the rhythms being better delineated. The repeating percussion motif has a great sense of tension and the singer's diction (such that it is) gets more meaning across - I was surprised by the amount of difference here as the changes were the same as last time. Kairn first = MUSIKALISCHE per chance?

Hoping for all of you 2022 is a year full of peace, happiness, and good health. Prosperity would be great too, but would that be too much to hope for?

You too Soocter :0)

Hi Lego,
Now I'm wondering if you're running up against a very live space and perhaps could benefit from some Room Tuning? A few well placed diffusers and/or a well placed rug perhaps to take some of the room edge off? ...Just a thought.

Hi Scooter,
There are some nice suggestions in there , thank you.

I'm not really sure how room treatments work .Is that to calm down side wall and ceiling reflections ?

Lego wrote: ↑2022-01-06 13:02

tpetsch wrote: ↑2022-01-06 03:19

Lego wrote: ↑2022-01-03 15:14
You too Soocter :0)

Hi Lego,
Now I'm wondering if you're running up against a very live space and perhaps could benefit from some Room Tuning? A few well placed diffusers and/or a well placed rug perhaps to take some of the room edge off? ...Just a thought.

Hi Scooter,
There are some nice suggestions in there , thank you.

I'm not really sure how room treatments work .Is that to calm down side wall and ceiling reflections ?

Hi, It's tpetsch, not Soocter, was just quoting his post because he was another member that also found aspects of MUSIKALISCHE compelling and another member mentioned it was "very clear but too much so". So it got me thinking you may have a very lively room -but hard to know listening at clips thru my laptop speakers- and that with some dampening/diffusers, maybe a fluffy rug the MUSIKALISCHE & Parsley setups may wind up be preferred overall? Yes, calming down side wall, ceiling and hard floor reflections can be a big part of a listening room problem. ...But saying that, room treatment is a somewhat complicated matter that involves time, costs and a lot of trial and error, some are lucky and have a room that just works and some others have rooms that are a big issue. I recommend looking at a few Youtube videos in the topic, there is a guy there -"Acoustics Insider", he has several videos that can give you some basics about room treatment, I have no connection to him BTW.

tpetsch wrote: ↑2022-01-06 20:43

Lego wrote: ↑2022-01-06 13:02

tpetsch wrote: ↑2022-01-06 03:19

Hi Lego,
Now I'm wondering if you're running up against a very live space and perhaps could benefit from some Room Tuning? A few well placed diffusers and/or a well placed rug perhaps to take some of the room edge off? ...Just a thought.

Hi Scooter,
There are some nice suggestions in there , thank you.

I'm not really sure how room treatments work .Is that to calm down side wall and ceiling reflections ?

Hi, It's tpetsch, not Soocter, was just quoting his post because he was another member that also found aspects of MUSIKALISCHE compelling and another member mentioned it was "very clear but too much so". So it got me thinking you may have a very lively room -but hard to know listening at clips thru my laptop speakers- and that with some dampening/diffusers, maybe a fluffy rug the MUSIKALISCHE & Parsley setups may wind up be preferred overall? Yes, calming down side wall, ceiling and hard floor reflections can be a big part of a listening room problem. ...But saying that, room treatment is a somewhat complicated matter that involves time, costs and a lot of trial and error, some are lucky and have a room that just works and some others have rooms that are a big issue. I recommend looking at a few Youtube videos in the topic, there is a guy there -"Acoustics Insider", he has several videos that can give you some basics about room treatment, I have no connection to him BTW.

Hi tpetsch,

Sorry for the mistaken identity.

Unfortunately my speakers are facing across the room as opposed to facing down the length of the room.

The floor is carpeted and has a rug on top but one of the side walls has windows in it so not ideal. The blinds however were down during the clips and I must admit I don't hear any difference with blinds up .
Side walls windows and sofa on one side and Piano on the other are ~8ft away from speakers and another sofa facing speaker.

Ceiling is ~12ft high so maybe my speakers are too low,but it is what it is.
Do you think those dimensions could be issue?

I initially I usually just plonk speakers down to somewhere that looks pleasing to the eye and when I get bored with the sound I start tweaking things and for me they need to be close to the wall.I must admit I'm liking the sound where they are just now ,which is probably why they're still there :0)

Thanks for the link I'll definitely give it a watch.

Lego wrote:

Hi tpetsch,

Sorry for the mistaken identity.

Unfortunately my speakers are facing across the room as opposed to facing down the length of the room.

The floor is carpeted and has a rug on top but one of the side walls has windows in it so not ideal. The blinds however were down during the clips and I must admit I don't hear any difference with blinds up .
Side walls windows and sofa on one side and Piano on the other are ~8ft away from speakers and another sofa facing speaker.

Ceiling is ~12ft high so maybe my speakers are too low,but it is what it is.
Do you think those dimensions could be issue?

I initially I usually just plonk speakers down to somewhere that looks pleasing to the eye and when I get bored with the sound I start tweaking things and for me they need to be close to the wall.I must admit I'm liking the sound where they are just now ,which is probably why they're still there :0)

Thanks for the link I'll definitely give it a watch.

It's tough to say, room tuning is a journey to say the least but the standout to me in what you listed are the 12' ceilings, high ceilings can be be both a blessing and a curse in my system setup experience, I've been in many different homes and room sizes and you really can't guess before hand how things will sound based on dimensions alone, that initial room walkthru though when you hear how different your voice sounds when walking from room to room can give you an "idea", also slap echo -or lack of- can also give you an "idea". ...In fact, I just made a purchase of some diffusers myself, not that I'm not liking the way my room sounds per-say but I'm thinking a few in places I've located in my minds eye can maybe lead to an overall Tune improvement, the diffusers that I chose are meant to help to multi-reflect sound waves with extremely little to no sound absorption qualities, my room is not on the Live side so I'm not looking to calm it down, it's a 50/50 bet/experiment really. Good luck.

Any plans to move the Ninkas out? Can't imagine they help the sound if they're just sitting there... Also, any dampening on the piano strings when not in use / while the hifi is playing? The piano resonances might confuse the recordings, but quite likely make the in-room sound good.

tpetsch wrote: ↑2022-01-07 01:06

Lego wrote:

Hi tpetsch,

Sorry for the mistaken identity.

Unfortunately my speakers are facing across the room as opposed to facing down the length of the room.

The floor is carpeted and has a rug on top but one of the side walls has windows in it so not ideal. The blinds however were down during the clips and I must admit I don't hear any difference with blinds up .
Side walls windows and sofa on one side and Piano on the other are ~8ft away from speakers and another sofa facing speaker.

Ceiling is ~12ft high so maybe my speakers are too low,but it is what it is.

It's tough to say, room tuning is a journey to say the least but the standout to me in what you listed are the 12' ceilings, high ceilings can be be both a blessing and a curse in my system setup experience, I've been in many different homes and room sizes and you really can't guess before hand how things will sound based on dimensions alone, that initial room walkthru though when you hear how different your voice sounds when walking from room to room can give you an "idea", also slap echo -or lack of- can also give you an "idea". ...In fact, I just made a purchase of some diffusers myself, not that I'm not liking the way my room sounds per-say but I'm thinking a few in places I've located in my minds eye can maybe lead to an overall Tune improvement, the diffusers that I chose are meant to help to multi-reflect sound waves with extremely little to no sound absorption qualities, my room is not on the Live side so I'm not looking to calm it down, it's a 50/50 bet/experiment really. Good luck.

That's very interesting tpetsch ,thanks again for the information.

tokenbrit wrote: ↑2022-01-07 01:26 Any plans to move the Ninkas out? Can't imagine they help the sound if they're just sitting there... Also, any dampening on the piano strings when not in use / while the hifi is playing? The piano resonances might confuse the recordings, but quite likely make the in-room sound good.

Yes I'll definitely be moving them out tokenbrit. .As I'll be selling them they're technically not my speakers so I've been nervous about putting them somewhere less safe.When the novelty of the JBLs wear off ,I'll put them somewhere safe and put JBLs closer to the wall.I'm never in a rush to improve things as it's always good to have an improvement to look forward to :0)

The Piano is used to often to bother about damping it down.

Lego I have to say your setup sounded wonderfull to me without issues I would address.
But yes for moving the Ninkas out (which you said will happen anyway) and yes for maybe damping the stings of the piano.
But again there was nothing I heard to come to that conclusion in your clips.

Defender wrote: ↑2022-01-07 14:07 Lego I have to say your setup sounded wonderfull to me without issues I would address.
But yes for moving the Ninkas out (which you said will happen anyway) and yes for maybe damping the stings of the piano.
But again there was nothing I heard to come to that conclusion in your clips.

Thanks Defender, hopefully putting them closer to the wall improves things or at best not detrimental . Visually I like speakers close to the walls.

Lego wrote: ↑2022-01-07 16:25 Visually I like speakers close to the walls.

Me too!

Closer to the walls is so much more preferable practically and on the eye but in any room/speakers I have had they have always been more musical 30cm to 50cm out. Sods law.

Discodave wrote: ↑2022-01-07 17:32 Closer to the walls is so much more preferable practically and on the eye but in any room/speakers I have had they have always been more musical 30cm to 50cm out. Sods law.

This is very true, speaker placement depends on the speaker and the room, can't just put a set up against a back wall in my experience and assume they will sound best there. Some speakers simply work up close to the back wall and others don't, Kans and Isobariks instantly come to mind though when I think about speakers that 'tend' to work well up against the wall.

I know!! I am now used to marking the preferable spot and then pushing back to wall after use.