Playground for practical listening exercises

[lejonklou]

Gosh! I had no idea these clips were of Giella Pi and Sagatun Mono.

[matthias]

Gosh! I had no idea these clips were of Giella Pi and Sagatun Mono.

My spontaneous impression was Giella Pi sounds like Spotify (Ogg Vorbis) and SM like Qobuz.

Matt

[Charlie1]

Giella reminds me of the Nait with an optimistic / happy go lucky view of the musical world. I did wonder if the mono clip was digging a bit deeper into the mood of that song but I was too won over by the upbeat Giella to really question it. No hifi is perfect and it's always interesting to hear which elements are better preserved than others.

[tokenbrit]

Not unexpected for Pi to run circles... Curious whether you think any upbeat character of the Giella does better via these clips than the manner of the Monos, Tom?

[beck]

No doubt about it, if I ever buy a preamp the Giella Pi would be at the top of the list..........

I hear an open and relaxed sound from the Pi with no squeezing of the tone intervals (distance from high to low note or the other way round) and a natural musical timing.
The Monos ever so gently “squeeze” the intervals thereby bringing forth a different sound making some layers of detail more obvious to the listener. At the same time the timing changes ever so slightly.

This is purely my flawed personal interpretation of the clips.

[Spannko]

Geilla Pi for me too. It’s a little cracker!

[matthias]

No doubt about it, if I ever buy a preamp the Giella Pi would be at the top of the list..........

+1
Giella Pi is just more fun :-)

Matt

[Defender]

the question for me is more:
what might be the reason why Giella might have the edge?
Is it because of only one input or a different kind of volume control or no control software need to run in the background?
I guess my question is - can the learning from Giella might improve the Sagatun.

And I have to say I would still need 2inputs at least and couldnt live without remote controlled volume control.

[matthias]

I guess my question is - can the learning from Giella might improve the Sagatun.

IIRC, Fredrik mentioned that Giella Pi is based on his "Level Two Circuit", which seems to be completely different from Sagatun.
But a complete new version of Sagatun will surely benefit from the experiences with Giella Pi.

Matt

[Tony Tune-age]

And I have to say I would still need 2inputs at least and couldn't live without remote controlled volume control.

Same for me, although the Giella certainly sounds nice!

Cheers

[V.A.MKD]

I will also mention that my friend who had me swap his Giella ∏ in place of his Sagatun stereo, based on a short listen to a couple of rock and jazz pieces, has asked me to swap back to the Sagatun this weekend. He found that in listening to classical, his first love, the Giella ∏ seemed to slightly blend together the sound of string sections and woodwind sections that were more separate and real sounding on the Sagatun. So as much as he likes the Giella ∏, and he loves it with his pair of Grado SR125e with G cushions, he overall prefers the Sagatun on his main system.

Hmmm ...
If Giella Pi is designed for headphones and we make evaluation of the clips on headphones (as I do it) than result is understandable, SM is designed for main system and give better result in main system ...
Maybe this is reason for ...
Just loud thinking ...
Or with other words, components designed for intentions of use ... for headphones and for main system as was designed and fine tuned by Fredrik.
... with out question both components are great ...

[ThomasOK]

Hi All, A little more info on this. This clip was not originally intended for the forum and was just sent to Fredrik a couple of weeks ago. I thought it was interesting how the Giella ∏ caught your attention (although the 2dB level advantage it had didn't hurt that either) although we both felt the SMs were overall still more informative and musical. However, when Fredrik asked if I had compared the Giella ∏ to the SMs in another thread I went ahead and posted them.

It wasn't until afterwards that I realized that the comparison conditions favored the Giella ∏ in a few ways. First off the Giella is on a Mimer shelf and the SMs are on Tors. Second, I made the SM clip first and unplugged the connectors and plugged them into the Giella. This means that the RCAs from the SINGularity and to the TMs were cleaned by being unplugged and plugged back in to the Giella giving it an advantage. Note that I was careful to unplug and replug in the AC cables when I did the outlet strip comparisons to avoid this problem. But, again, these clips weren't originally intended for the forum. Third, I did not unplug the Kremlin from the SMs when I made the clip. I know from experience that the system sounds better with only the SINGularities plugged into the SMs but this is not how these clips were done. Obviously, however, only the SINGularities were plugged into the Giella ∏.

So basically I need to make another set of clips with everything more equal between the two and probably with a bit more complex piece of music. That will happen but one weekend day is taken up with visiting my shut-in friend SImon, and the other normal things I do on that day. Yesterday had me spending 4 hours clearing substantial weeds from a 12' x 4' garden bed that hadn't been planted in a few years, double digging the whole thing and then planting the vegetables (zucchini, beets, scallions, celery and leeks). And seeing as I work in an odd retail store we don't get any extra days off when the holiday falls on a Monday (as they so often do). So that ate up my weekend. Maybe this coming weekend?

[matthias]

If Giella Pi is designed for headphones and we make evaluation of the clips on headphones (as I do it) than result is understandable, SM is designed for main system and give better result in main system ...

Both devices were used as preamps. Whether you evaluate the clips with HP, with the speakers of your laptop or in your main system does not matter from a Source First POV. Even via the speakers of my MBP I preferred Giella Pi.

BTW, the musicality ranking as preamps according to Fredrik is Giella Pi > Giella > Sagatun Stereo, so it makes sense to compare Giella Pi to Sagatun Mono.

Matt

[matthias]

It wasn't until afterwards that I realized that the comparison conditions favored the Giella ∏ in a few ways. First off the Giella is on a Mimer shelf and the SMs are on Tors. Second, I made the SM clip first and unplugged the connectors and plugged them into the Giella. This means that the RCAs from the SINGularity and to the TMs were cleaned by being unplugged and plugged back in to the Giella giving it an advantage. Note that I was careful to unplug and replug in the AC cables when I did the outlet strip comparisons to avoid this problem. But, again, these clips weren't originally intended for the forum. Third, I did not unplug the Kremlin from the SMs when I made the clip. I know from experience that the system sounds better with only the SINGularities plugged into the SMs but this is not how these clips were done. Obviously, however, only the SINGularities were plugged into the Giella ∏.

Certainly these details like the better shelf, cleaning the RCAs by unplugging and the single input gave the Giella Pi an advantage. However, you have to take into account that the SM are more than double the price which gives them an advantage. In this context I found remarkable that the final result was 9:0 for Giella Pi.

Matt

[ThomasOK]

It wasn't until afterwards that I realized that the comparison conditions favored the Giella ∏ in a few ways. First off the Giella is on a Mimer shelf and the SMs are on Tors. Second, I made the SM clip first and unplugged the connectors and plugged them into the Giella. This means that the RCAs from the SINGularity and to the TMs were cleaned by being unplugged and plugged back in to the Giella giving it an advantage. Note that I was careful to unplug and replug in the AC cables when I did the outlet strip comparisons to avoid this problem. But, again, these clips weren't originally intended for the forum. Third, I did not unplug the Kremlin from the SMs when I made the clip. I know from experience that the system sounds better with only the SINGularities plugged into the SMs but this is not how these clips were done. Obviously, however, only the SINGularities were plugged into the Giella ∏.

Certainly these details like the better shelf, cleaning the RCAs by unplugging and the single input gave the Giella Pi an advantage. However, you have to take into account that the SM are more than double the price which gives them an advantage. In this context I found remarkable that the final result was 9:0 for Giella Pi.

Matt

I do agree with your thinking with the proviso that the only reason the more than double the price of the SM gives them an advantage is because they are also made by Lejonklou HiFi.

[matthias]

I do agree with your thinking with the proviso that the only reason the more than double the price of the SM gives them an advantage is because they are also made by Lejonklou HiFi.

Yes, it makes sense only in this context.

Matt

[Defender]

well, to be honest what I heard in the SM clip (slight harschness) and what also beck commented on is certainly not what I hear in my system - so I would have bet a lot of money that its not the SM‘s I am hearing.

I somehow think Vlado has a point ... but Matthias too. Maybe one clip doesnt say it all.

For Thomas: I see you have a lot of Linn Skeets in your system - please x-check if maybe normal spike disks give you better results (thats independent from the Giella comparison). At least the normal spike disks go along with Linns way of having higher pressure per area and so better energy transfer than the Skeets do.

[ThomasOK]

well, to be honest what I heard in the SM clip (slight harschness) and what also beck commented on is certainly not what I hear in my system - so I would have bet a lot of money that its not the SM‘s I am hearing.

I somehow think Vlado has a point ... but Matthias too. Maybe one clip doesnt say it all.

For Thomas: I see you have a lot of Linn Skeets in your system - please x-check if maybe normal spike disks give you better results (thats independent from the Giella comparison). At least the normal spike disks go along with Linns way of having higher pressure per area and so better energy transfer than the Skeets do.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the normal spike disks". Considering the one clip in another thread it would certainly be worth trying another option. I have actually been considering trying at least the speaker spikes directly into the wood floor for some time but haven't done it yet.

[Defender]

usually the spikes come with a small disk/plate where you put the spikes onto (like a washer but without a hole) ... not sure what the right english word is

5F86EC8F-7BFA-420C-9AE7-F820E35FF01A.jpeg

[Lego]

usually the spikes come with a small disk/plate where you put the spikes onto (like a washer but without a hole) ... not sure what the right english word is
5F86EC8F-7BFA-420C-9AE7-F820E35FF01A.jpeg

Is this better than Skeets ,spikes into stone and wooden floorboards.I tried Skeets when they first came out and never went back .

[Defender]

Lego are you asking a question? In my case with my floor (concrete + 1mm layer of blue stuff for step noise reduction + 5mm wood parket floating) the Linn Skeets dont seem to work well tried with loudspeakers and now with the coffee table LP12 support Spike+Disk was better than Spike+Linn Skeets

[ThomasOK]

Thanks, Defender. Now I know what you are talking about. None of my spiked equipment came with any disks like that but I have seen all variation of that type of thing come with some of the speakers we sell and have sold. I remember when Vienna Acoustics speakers just came with some small Viennese coins to use under the spikes. Yours look a little more advanced than that. Do you know if those disks are made out of steel or aluminum? There are any number of such devices around here so you could have just opened Pandora's jar.

It should be pointed out that what works best depends a lot on the surface it is used on. Your situation with parquet flooring over a damping layer over concrete is likely to be quite different to a concrete floor or a hardwood board floor such as I have. And carpeting also throws something else into the mix. Although it is counterintuitive to me (as I've always thought spikes for speakers were about rigid mounting thus reducing cabinet movement) I have found situations at both customer houses and Hi-Fi shows where Skeets under the spikes but on top of carpet was a more musical choice. Fredrik and I used Skeets on carpets under the stands of the JBLs and Quads at shows and it sounded quite wonderful. So it is mostly a try it and see thing. I still wonder about spiked directly into the floor, especially for the speakers, and my floor isn't that special that I couldn't get by with it. But with three Harmoni racks, the NOKTable stand and the speakers all on spikes that would be a lot of holes in the wood floor if I didn't use protectors on any of them. You have given me something to think about in terms of spike supports, but there are many who have used Skeets and found them to be quite worthwhile. I'll just have to see at some point.

[Defender]

mine seem to be Messing/Brass which is a mixture of Copper and Zinc.
its not Aluminium

material will certainly make a difference but I think in this case it is more like you have it on the KEEL or on the Linn Kandid to Headshell area minimizing the area of materials which is touching each other to have a higher material force/pressing. Small area = high pressing and direct connection vs big area (Linn Skeet) = low pressing less direct connection.

I would start with the NOK Table (closest to where I tried it) than the Harmoni

I have also ones which seem to be stainless steel. Its a test that not involves much hassle in case it doesnt work.
maybe 1 pence/cent coin does the same job - Lincoln facing up (I hope its not a political incorrect joke)
you can even use a grain tool to have a center for the spike.

Linn Skeet seem to work well on carpet

[Defender]

here is another test to improve my support/rack for the Sagatun before I go on with the next level. Any difference at all? for the better or for worst?

Clip 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/idqsipgjetw7f ... 6.mov?dl=0

Clip 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1nd6xxw8brna ... 3.mov?dl=0

[Eli7]

2nd clip for me. It is more expressive. Listened through the track 2 times.
1st clip I don't want to listen to the end.