Playground for practical listening exercises

[beck]

Unwillingly I have to agree. The change betters one problem (note relations) and creates others.

Here is a second attempt that I think works better. My goal is to "clean" up in the note relation department.

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The funny thing is that with my latest changes I can now listen to any record in my collection and get interesting non annoying "in tune" music in my room. It is actually amazing and puzzling at the same time. A while ago I would not believe that it was possible.

[beck]

Well, the "cleaning" in my latest attempt 1374 went well but it still has other negative effects so back to the drawing board!

[lejonklou]

Sorry, can't hear any cleaning. I only hear that After is significantly worse.

I must also confess that I don't understand what "cleaning up in the note relation department" means. I only strive for better music. If I try to fix any particular aspect in the music, it usually results in a step back in performance.

But that could just be me not getting it!

[Music Lover]

Good Sound follow if you keep on enhancing the musical understanding, always!

[beck]

Good Sound follow if you keep on enhancing the musical understanding, always!

Great statement and true! That is why I am still here getting feedback that can make me stay on track. :-)

Sorry, can't hear any cleaning. I only hear that After is significantly worse.

I must also confess that I don't understand what "cleaning up in the note relation department" means. I only strive for better music. If I try to fix any particular aspect in the music, it usually results in a step back in performance.

But that could just be me not getting it!

Yes, the "cleaning" expression is bad. I hope that I can show it some day.

[beck]

Here is an attempt to show what I am talking about when saying "weird" things such as "better pitch relation" and so on.
The clips have been made all through the last couple of months from before I started making changes to my setup untill now. The system and cables are the same all the way through.

Hopefully it can show a step by step change towards a "better" relation between the notes being played.



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[beck]

Finally I get the same flow (no, but getting nearer :-)) but better sound with Toto. Power cables touching my stand got in the way. Be sure to compare when the keyboard starts. Have a listen and feel free to disagree. I have been know to make mistakes. Not once but severel times.:-)

Before: Link removed

Now: Link removed

[Charlie1]

I still prefer 1358.

On a related note, I wonder if it's important to make a new recording of the 1358 setup for each comparison. What if the noise on your mains was really low when you recorded 1358, or the humidity level was much better. Could things like that make enough difference to sway any subsequent comparison? I don't know the answer to this - just posing the question.

[beck]

I still prefer 1358.

On a related note, I wonder if it's important to make a new recording of the 1358 setup for each comparison. What if the noise on your mains was really low when you recorded 1358, or the humidity level was much better. Could things like that make enough difference to sway any subsequent comparison? I don't know the answer to this - just posing the question.

No doubt we are talking about very small but important differences. Anything can influence the result as I have discovered. My DIY setup does not make it easier. Nothing new but a simple power cord barely touching my stand makes a clear difference.
As the sound from my system to me is better now my hunt for that last percent that makes the flow of the music fully natural is still on. :-)

Getting closer. The new sound makes a less dominant shaker sound:

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[lejonklou]

I still prefer 1358.

On a related note, I wonder if it's important to make a new recording of the 1358 setup for each comparison. What if the noise on your mains was really low when you recorded 1358, or the humidity level was much better. Could things like that make enough difference to sway any subsequent comparison? I don't know the answer to this - just posing the question.

Beck, sorry but I'm in a noisy environment with flakey internet. Difficult to listen to the clips.

Charlie, my experience so far is that it's not necessary to make new recordings. The variations are smaller than most changes done to the system. I've done many recorded A-B's over the years and tend to cling to the best-so-far recording and try to beat that. And so far, I have eventually succeeded.

[Charlie1]

Charlie, my experience so far is that it's not necessary to make new recordings. The variations are smaller than most changes done to the system. I've done many recorded A-B's over the years and tend to cling to the best-so-far recording and try to beat that. And so far, I have eventually succeeded.

Thanks Fredrik, that's good to know. Didn't want some other factors impacting Beck's tests.

[beck]

No problem Fredrik. It is not your job to respond to every silly "game" I come up with.:-)

What I am searching for besides the flow in clip 1358 in a better (easier) understanding of the chords being played (from a musicians point of view I find it just a little muddled in clip 1358). The changes I make are further cable dressing, small movements of the shelf and small changes to the support of the shelf. This could easily be a wild goose chase but fun at least for me none the less.:-)

Ok, here is my final offer and the setup that I am going to use for a while. I caught what I was hunting for with minimal loss of flow. I can always go back if I fall out of love with it.

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[Charlie1]

1358 still seems like more fun to me.

[beck]

I think I agree with you Charlie1. If nothing else this little exercise shows us how powerful a tool Fredrik is using when making new products!

Still, I am going to use the setup from clip 1407 for a while. It has the bonus that I can pick out any record and enjoy listening to it without thinking that there is something "wrong" in the pitch relation area (not saying that is the truth but it is how my ears work).

Great to get comments from you Charlie1. We all need someone to respond to our thoughts to get better at this.

Even though it does not work as a benchmark it is fun to relate my clips to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTQbiNvZqaY

Listening on the second day of my changes convince me that I am on to something. The pitch of the music seems just right. Chords come out not squeezed, not streached but just right to my ears.


I have ended with the sound below. Natural flow is there and natural relation between notes is being recreated in my room. Playing all the vinyl I did not like before listening with a surpriced smile on my face.

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[beck]

I simply have to share this beat with you all. The track is called Abafuka and is taken from the record seen on the video featuring different dj's. It is a danish limited double vinyl edition. I do not expect my system to improve any more so this is just me saying thank you all for your help. :-)

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[ThomasOK]

Cool! Nice to have something new to listen to while I'm stuck at the airport. Have to wait for them to drag away my broken plane and find a new one. Looks like I'll be in LA about three hours later than I originally expected.
The restaurant here is playing the typically lame "classic rock" playlist you hear often at these places.

[beck]

Sorry to hear about the plane. Sometimes the internet can be a blessing. :-)

[ThomasOK]

True! Just think, without it I might have to resort to something like reading a book!

[springwood64]

What a great thread. I did not expect to hear differences recorded and played back using phones. It's interesting that my 'instinctive' preferences on the recordings seem very consistent (close my eyes: which one do I want to keep playing?). However if I try to analyse the difference I'm hearing, or focus on specific elements, the differences seem to fade away.

I'm going to be tuning my arm set up and speaker positions sometime soon, is it OK if I share the process on here?

[beck]

Absolutely. That is what we are here for!

[springwood64]

Quick question regarding setting arm height: is it worth tuning to sub millimetre resolution? If so I'll need to buy some feeler guages as I've only got plastic shims to 1mm

[lejonklou]

It's interesting that my 'instinctive' preferences on the recordings seem very consistent (close my eyes: which one do I want to keep playing?). However if I try to analyse the difference I'm hearing, or focus on specific elements, the differences seem to fade away.

Yes!

This is the reason why so many audiophiles are deaf. They go into a state of listening where they focus on specific elements - and stop hearing the music.

This is similar to holding on to your bicycle handle as hard as you can, in an attempt to keep it under control. Which makes it very difficult to ride the bike.

Quick question regarding setting arm height: is it worth tuning to sub millimetre resolution? If so I'll need to buy some feeler guages as I've only got plastic shims to 1mm

The limiting factor is that your vinyl records vary in thickness. So use a record of medium thickness, tune the arm height with that and avoid mad precision as it won't survive a change of record.

[Charlie1]

I'm going to be tuning my arm set up and speaker positions sometime soon, is it OK if I share the process on here?

Go for it springwood! :)

Quick request. Keep the clips the same length. We can then skip between them and know the progress bar will be roughly in the same place for each clip. Also, some folks prefer to just play them directly via web browser cos it's quick and easy, even though the quality is better when downloaded - we just need to tell which is better/worse so it's doesn't really matter how good/bad they sound in the clip. It's always going to sound miles better in the listening room than via a handheld phone. Looking forward to hearing your clips!

[springwood64]

Here are the recordings for VTA: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g78xzwq7jrh0 ... tA-Da?dl=0

Hopefully you can access them.

I had set the VTA on a previous session, and for me this session has confirmed my original setting. I'll be very interested to see if you agree :)

[springwood64]

Stage 2: tracking force: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2y4riqp9oh0g ... 3Eq7a?dl=0

Stage 3: anti-skate: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3turo94bh9zv ... td4ja?dl=0