Playground for practical listening exercises

[ThomasOK]

I still prefer .8 out of the four new clips although sonically it is a bit bright. I'd still try .8 -1 and +1 but I'd also be interested to hear how something like .6+4 sounds.

[markiteight]

Many, many thanks to everybody who have contributed their input. Beyond being quite helpful and insightful, its...fun!

I give up deciding on what is the right number here but more importantly your system markiteight is playing lovely music again. :-)

That sax does sound mighty fine though.

It's really remarkable just how much the music has improved with the bit of fine tuning I've done so far. The difference is not subtle! It's exciting to think there's still a lot more to come!

I still prefer .8 out of the four new clips although sonically it is a bit bright. I'd still try .8 -1 and +1 but I'd also be interested to hear how something like .6+4 sounds.

I'm definitely in the right neighborhood, but it feels like I'm dealing with a very craggy mountain range with a bunch of small peaks and I just have to search for the tallest one.

Yeah the brightness is troubling. That started happening after I began tuning. It's always been well balanced until recently. What's odd is I haven't even touched the tweeter yet. I know it's generally best practice to start with the tweeter and work your way down, but in this case I'm on a bit of a finite timeline with reference to the main driver, so it's my primary priority (more on this later, once I get the torques dialed). Besides, in these speakers the main driver covers 8 1/2-9-ish octaves, the tweeter less than one.

If I get some time this weekend I will root around the lower torque region a bit more and report back.

[V.A.MKD]

Many, many thanks to everybody who have contributed their input. Beyond being quite helpful and insightful, its...fun!

I still prefer .8 out of the four new clips although sonically it is a bit bright. I'd still try .8 -1 and +1 but I'd also be interested to hear how something like .6+4 sounds.

Yeah the brightness is troubling. That started happening after I began tuning. It's always been well balanced until recently. What's odd is I haven't even touched the tweeter yet. I know it's generally best practice to start with the tweeter and work your way down, but in this case I'm on a bit of a finite timeline with reference to the main driver, so it's my primary priority (more on this later, once I get the torques dialed). Besides, in these speakers the main driver covers 8 1/2-9-ish octaves, the tweeter less than one.

If I get some time this weekend I will root around the lower torque region a bit more and report back.

Yes, do it as ThomasOK suggest ...
2nd step Tweeter;
3rd step Fine Tune = back to the Main Driver ...

This is my opinion, maybe I'm wrong. With 3 steps you will have again Balanced Sound ...

[Charlie1]

Inspired by Rega's entry-level setup at Bristol Show I thought I'd try out their P10.

I know 3 is not the magic number when it comes to comparisons so sorry about that.

1. Radikal LP12 with pre-Cirkus bearing, steel sub, Ekos SE, Krystal, Urika
2. Valhalla LP12 with pre-Cirkus bearing, steel sub, Ittok LVIII, K9 body, VM95C, serviced MM phono boards in NAC32.5
3. Rega P10 with serviced MC phono boards in NAC32.5

All kit well warmed up except Valhalla and Rega PSU which were on for a couple of hours only, so warm but not ideal.

A bit of a REM love fest I'm afraid.

Can't Get There From Here
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1nqfb6n4e1zll ... D.MOV?dl=0
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/cgrjjjpcxmj1u ... D.MOV?dl=0
3. https://www.dropbox.com/s/dl5wdgqozxge1 ... D.MOV?dl=0

Green Grow The Rushes
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/43jz05m6zbdk8 ... D.MOV?dl=0
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/keotequ0g9nku ... D.MOV?dl=0
3. https://www.dropbox.com/s/6dawr22w2mcx4 ... D.MOV?dl=0

Orange Crush (Warning: Louder Volume)
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/4xmsbtoeoqm7b ... D.MOV?dl=0 (recorded yesterday)
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/81b0g86f2dmvc ... D.MOV?dl=0
3. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewd30ike731ek ... D.MOV?dl=0

[beck]

Great clips and very interesting indeed.

[OscarH]

Great clips and very interesting indeed.

+1

I enjoyed all of them.

[Defender]

interesting comparison even though many things are different from setup to setup but I was surprised of how hard it was for me to follow the voice on the Rega with the first 3 clips (can’t get there from here)

[Defender]

I did something I wanted to test again after I was not happy with the first outcome. Its loudspeaker on skeets.

without skeets
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k7wqwbqav9nby ... 2.mov?dl=0

with skeets
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xzna0tsxvpsk ... 0.mov?dl=0


what do you think ;)

[beck]

Skeets does make a difference but not in a clearly better direction. Something is not fully settled with skeets.

I would choose no skeets. It works better and I enjoy it. :-)

[ThomasOK]

I definitely prefer it without skeets, but I'm trying to figure out why whoever it is that is covering Orange Crush is singing the wrong vocals?

Of course, removing the skeets also changes the height so you are evaluating two factors, but my guess is that both are helping the music. This is something I plan to investigate after Axpona as I think the Quads might be better just a smidge lower and the spikes into the wood floor (which shouldn't be too noticeable later as long as I don't move the speakers around a lot) would probably also be an improvement. But that's all conjecture.

[ThomasOK]

Hmmm! Nobody seems to want to actually wade into Charlie1's clips. So:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzGhK2DJnIA

My take is that the Rega, good as it is, comes in third as it just doesn't move as well, is less intelligible and not as dynamic. The Valhalla LP12 is good, and interesting as it sounds all of a piece. A nice table and more musical than the P10. The Radikal LP12 is the one I find most musical overall. It isn't quite as balanced in some ways as the Valhalla table, like everything isn't pulling the same way, but I still prefer it overall.

[Charlie1]

My take is that the Rega, good as it is, comes in third as it just doesn't move as well, is less intelligible and not as dynamic. The Valhalla LP12 is good, and interesting as it sounds all of a piece. A nice table and more musical than the P10. The Radikal LP12 is the one I find most musical overall. It isn't quite as balanced in some ways as the Valhalla table, like everything isn't pulling the same way, but I still prefer it overall.

I think you've summed up my own feelings as well, although I tend to flit between preferring the Radikal and Valhalla decks depending upon the LP.

I do respect the P10 for still being very musical and doing the HiFi stuff so well, despite being connected to a 35-year-old phono stage. The treble, in particular, is miles better than my Sondeks. The Cirkus and Keel would have narrowed the gap but I suspect the P10 would still be well clear, especially with a good Rega phono.

I'm glad I tried it and well done Rega. But Linn still know what they're doing when it comes to reproducing music.

[Defender]

I agree with Thomas about the Rega thats why I made the statement that I wonder why it was harder for me to follow the voice on the Rega - Rega comes in third.
The Valhalla LP 12was really interesting and I couldn’t really made my mind up with respect to the Valhalla vs. the Radikal. Impressive performance of the Valhalla

[Defender]

Skeets does make a difference but not in a clearly better direction. Something is not fully settled with skeets.

I would choose no skeets. It works better and I enjoy it. :-)

This is the same outcome like last time - it seems my loudspeakers prefer to not stand on spikes/skeets. However I will leave the Skeets on for a while as after I came home from shopping something seem to have changed for the better.

[Charlie1]

without skeets
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k7wqwbqav9nby ... 2.mov?dl=0

with skeets
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xzna0tsxvpsk ... 0.mov?dl=0

Without for me too - sounds good. Just seems a bit out of tune with skeets.

I've not forgotten about your suggestion for spikes and skeets with the Lack.

[beck]

I agree with Thomas about the Rega thats why I made the statement that I wonder why it was harder for me to follow the voice on the Rega - Rega comes in third.
The Valhalla LP 12was really interesting and I couldn’t really made my mind up with respect to the Valhalla vs. the Radikal. Impressive performance of the Valhalla

+1

[markiteight]

Inspired by Rega's entry-level setup at Bristol Show I thought I'd try out their P10.

I know 3 is not the magic number when it comes to comparisons so sorry about that.

1. Radikal LP12 with pre-Cirkus bearing, steel sub, Ekos SE, Krystal, Urika
2. Valhalla LP12 with pre-Cirkus bearing, steel sub, Ittok LVIII, K9 body, VM95C, serviced MM phono boards in NAC32.5
3. Rega P10 with serviced MC phono boards in NAC32.5

All kit well warmed up except Valhalla and Rega PSU which were on for a couple of hours only, so warm but not ideal.

A bit of a REM love fest I'm afraid.

Can't Get There From Here
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1nqfb6n4e1zll ... D.MOV?dl=0
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/cgrjjjpcxmj1u ... D.MOV?dl=0
3. https://www.dropbox.com/s/dl5wdgqozxge1 ... D.MOV?dl=0

Green Grow The Rushes
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/43jz05m6zbdk8 ... D.MOV?dl=0
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/keotequ0g9nku ... D.MOV?dl=0
3. https://www.dropbox.com/s/6dawr22w2mcx4 ... D.MOV?dl=0

Orange Crush (Warning: Louder Volume)
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/4xmsbtoeoqm7b ... D.MOV?dl=0 (recorded yesterday)
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/81b0g86f2dmvc ... D.MOV?dl=0
3. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewd30ike731ek ... D.MOV?dl=0

Fun clips, Charlie1. Much more entertaining than my endless 'this torque vs. that torque' barrage.

Radikal easily wins for me but the Valhalla sure does make a compelling argument. With the Rega, especially on the second clip, it kinda sounds like the musicians are phoning it in a bit. That sounds a bit harsh but it's the best analogy I can come up with right now.

[markiteight]

I did something I wanted to test again after I was not happy with the first outcome. Its loudspeaker on skeets.

without skeets
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k7wqwbqav9nby ... 2.mov?dl=0

with skeets
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xzna0tsxvpsk ... 0.mov?dl=0


what do you think ;)

With skeets it's easier to follow what's going on with each instrument, without skeets seems more together...if that makes any sense.

[markiteight]

I still prefer .8 out of the four new clips although sonically it is a bit bright. I'd still try .8 -1 and +1 but I'd also be interested to hear how something like .6+4 sounds.

Here 'ya go:
0.8 -1: https://youtu.be/76chEfYo318
0.8: https://youtu.be/E1DfgcGBngs
0.8 +1: https://youtu.be/5GiEatULPVM
0.6 +4: https://youtu.be/WMRLzhDjwFw

Before I made these recordings I back-and-forthed between 1.2 and 0.8. We are in agreement, unfortunately, 0.8 is definitely better. However, a couple weeks ago I did a mini service on the LP12, rebuilding the suspension and adjusting some torques. Last night it dawned on me that I didn't finish the job after reassembly and initial test. I guess I got sidetracked and forgot. This afternoon I finished where I left off and replaced the belt, checked orientation on the new belt and re-clocked/centered the platter. This seems to have alleviated some of the brightness as well as elevating the music to a new level. The above recordings were made post belt replacement.

[V.A.MKD]

Inspired by Rega's entry-level setup at Bristol Show I thought I'd try out their P10.

I know 3 is not the magic number when it comes to comparisons so sorry about that.

1. Radikal LP12 with pre-Cirkus bearing, steel sub, Ekos SE, Krystal, Urika
2. Valhalla LP12 with pre-Cirkus bearing, steel sub, Ittok LVIII, K9 body, VM95C, serviced MM phono boards in NAC32.5
3. Rega P10 with serviced MC phono boards in NAC32.5

All kit well warmed up except Valhalla and Rega PSU which were on for a couple of hours only, so warm but not ideal.

A bit of a REM love fest I'm afraid.

Can't Get There From Here
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1nqfb6n4e1zll ... D.MOV?dl=0
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/cgrjjjpcxmj1u ... D.MOV?dl=0
3. https://www.dropbox.com/s/dl5wdgqozxge1 ... D.MOV?dl=0

Green Grow The Rushes
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/43jz05m6zbdk8 ... D.MOV?dl=0
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/keotequ0g9nku ... D.MOV?dl=0
3. https://www.dropbox.com/s/6dawr22w2mcx4 ... D.MOV?dl=0

Orange Crush (Warning: Louder Volume)
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/4xmsbtoeoqm7b ... D.MOV?dl=0 (recorded yesterday)
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/81b0g86f2dmvc ... D.MOV?dl=0
3. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewd30ike731ek ... D.MOV?dl=0

For me ... the best is:
No. 1, than,
No. 2, than,
No. 3.
But it is overall ... a lot of different things to compare in the most important thing ... source ...

[V.A.MKD]

I did something I wanted to test again after I was not happy with the first outcome. Its loudspeaker on skeets.

without skeets
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k7wqwbqav9nby ... 2.mov?dl=0

with skeets
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xzna0tsxvpsk ... 0.mov?dl=0


what do you think ;)

Without Skeets for me ...

[beck]

With your latest clips markiteight I enjoy them more and more the lower you go. 0.6+4 is my pick.

[V.A.MKD]

I still prefer .8 out of the four new clips although sonically it is a bit bright. I'd still try .8 -1 and +1 but I'd also be interested to hear how something like .6+4 sounds.

Here 'ya go:
0.8 -1: https://youtu.be/76chEfYo318
0.8: https://youtu.be/E1DfgcGBngs
0.8 +1: https://youtu.be/5GiEatULPVM
0.6 +4: https://youtu.be/WMRLzhDjwFw

Before I made these recordings I back-and-forthed between 1.2 and 0.8. We are in agreement, unfortunately, 0.8 is definitely better. However, a couple weeks ago I did a mini service on the LP12, rebuilding the suspension and adjusting some torques. Last night it dawned on me that I didn't finish the job after reassembly and initial test. I guess I got sidetracked and forgot. This afternoon I finished where I left off and replaced the belt, checked orientation on the new belt and re-clocked/centered the platter. This seems to have alleviated some of the brightness as well as elevating the music to a new level. The above recordings were made post belt replacement.

0.8 -1 for me ... without doubts ...

[Spannko]

I did something I wanted to test again after I was not happy with the first outcome. Its loudspeaker on skeets.

without skeets
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k7wqwbqav9nby ... 2.mov?dl=0

with skeets
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xzna0tsxvpsk ... 0.mov?dl=0


what do you think ;)

Without Skeets for me

[Spannko]

Inspired by Rega's entry-level setup at Bristol Show I thought I'd try out their P10.

I know 3 is not the magic number when it comes to comparisons so sorry about that.

1. Radikal LP12 with pre-Cirkus bearing, steel sub, Ekos SE, Krystal, Urika
2. Valhalla LP12 with pre-Cirkus bearing, steel sub, Ittok LVIII, K9 body, VM95C, serviced MM phono boards in NAC32.5
3. Rega P10 with serviced MC phono boards in NAC32.5

All kit well warmed up except Valhalla and Rega PSU which were on for a couple of hours only, so warm but not ideal.

A bit of a REM love fest I'm afraid.

Can't Get There From Here
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1nqfb6n4e1zll ... D.MOV?dl=0
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/cgrjjjpcxmj1u ... D.MOV?dl=0
3. https://www.dropbox.com/s/dl5wdgqozxge1 ... D.MOV?dl=0

Green Grow The Rushes
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/43jz05m6zbdk8 ... D.MOV?dl=0
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/keotequ0g9nku ... D.MOV?dl=0
3. https://www.dropbox.com/s/6dawr22w2mcx4 ... D.MOV?dl=0

Orange Crush (Warning: Louder Volume)
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/4xmsbtoeoqm7b ... D.MOV?dl=0 (recorded yesterday)
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/81b0g86f2dmvc ... D.MOV?dl=0
3. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewd30ike731ek ... D.MOV?dl=0

Hearing a few different tracks helps to pin down what each deck is doing. The impression I’ve got is that the Radikal and P10 say “Hey, listen to me - I’m really good”, whereas the Valhalla doesn’t sound so impressive in a HiFi sense, but it was the only one which made me want to sing and jiggle in my seat.