Hi Music Lover.
I have tried many turntables in my system (including 2 LP12's one with Sole one with standard sub-chassis) I know what sounds best to my ears. Selling this through the written word (tune method?) I accept is not my strong point.
However, perhaps the best way to move ahead is to let an expert at the tune method take a listen so, Mr Lejonklou will be reviewing the Plattamat soon and possibly early in 2009, I will send him a Sole to review too.
I'll accept constructive criticsm with open arms as I can build on this.
Some people who have purchased the Sole are amazed by what it has achieved in their systems, only one fellow did not like it - said it was worse to his ears and sold it on. fair enough, I am aware I can't please all the people all time - we are all indviduals with varying likes and dislikes. Though in saying this, all customers who have purchased the Plattamat are very happy with it.
I have always indicated that I prefer my customers to say what my products are like and if they are unhappy, to let me know and I'll do my utmost to put things right, I don't think I can be fairer than that?
How would folk feel if I said "my products are the best things since sliced bread" and they turned out not to be the case? Clearly my products do have merit because I have received mainly thumb's up and "thank you very much for a great product" comments.
So yes, I do consider my statements regarding perceived performance improvments entirely valid, being as they have always been, based on comments from happy customers.
JohnR
Sole sub-chassis for LP12
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Music Lover
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Thanks to John I've had the opportunity to try the Plattamat on my LP12 (Linn maple plinth, Lingo2, Keel, Ekos SE, Adikt on QS wallshelf) for the last two days.
The Plattamat appears to be rubber bonded cork pieces (please correct me if I'm wrong). I felt that was interesting, as I've tried both cork mats and rubber mats in the past, but never a mix between them. It comes adequately packed, with instructions for how to use and clean it and on one side there is a label that indicates the right way up. When looking at both sides, I wasn't sure I could tell the difference but I did as the label said.
For some reason I felt an urge to listen to the Cure, so I started with the double LP 'Wish', that I have lately come to appreciate more than back when I bought it.
The Plattamat gave a sharpened sense of dynamics that made some things stand out more than I remembered; guitars for instance. The bass was also bouncy with a rubbery kind of feel to it - a bit like the sound you get with a rubber mat, but less pronounced.
When going back to the standard felt mat (mine is about 3 years old now and in reasonable condition), the bouncy and dynamic sound was replaced with something more calm and damped. Quite like the material the record was resting on. The important thing, though, was that with the felt mat, the music was more understandable and easier to follow. When judged with the Tune Method, standard felt was the winner.
Due to the bouncy character of the Plattamat, I later decided to play some Prince; 'Lovesexy' with e.g. the great song 'Alphabet St'. I remember being at the first row at the very first concert of the Lovesexy tour. They opened with 'Alphabet St' and there was a car that was suspended in the air just outside the edge of the circular scene. It could be driven around and Prince jumped into that as he sang "I'm gonna drive my daddy's Thunderbird". I thought it was so cool! :)
The Plattamat sounded bouncy and dynamic just like before, almost pushing the song forward. And once again, certain things stood out and felt more pronounced than I was used to. When I went back to the felt mat I did slightly prefer the sound, but more importantly the groove and the progress of the song made more sense. Quite simply, I felt the interplay between the musicians were more subtle and nuanced.
When doing an evaluation with the Tune Method, it doesn't matter what music you choose - the result will always be the same. I have listened to a lot of different mats in the past, and so far none has beaten the felt. The Plattamat does have some interesting sound qualities, but when evaluated with the Tune Method it doesn't perform as good as a standard Linn felt mat to my ears.
Once again, many thanks to John for giving me the opportunity to listen to his creation!
The Plattamat appears to be rubber bonded cork pieces (please correct me if I'm wrong). I felt that was interesting, as I've tried both cork mats and rubber mats in the past, but never a mix between them. It comes adequately packed, with instructions for how to use and clean it and on one side there is a label that indicates the right way up. When looking at both sides, I wasn't sure I could tell the difference but I did as the label said.
For some reason I felt an urge to listen to the Cure, so I started with the double LP 'Wish', that I have lately come to appreciate more than back when I bought it.
The Plattamat gave a sharpened sense of dynamics that made some things stand out more than I remembered; guitars for instance. The bass was also bouncy with a rubbery kind of feel to it - a bit like the sound you get with a rubber mat, but less pronounced.
When going back to the standard felt mat (mine is about 3 years old now and in reasonable condition), the bouncy and dynamic sound was replaced with something more calm and damped. Quite like the material the record was resting on. The important thing, though, was that with the felt mat, the music was more understandable and easier to follow. When judged with the Tune Method, standard felt was the winner.
Due to the bouncy character of the Plattamat, I later decided to play some Prince; 'Lovesexy' with e.g. the great song 'Alphabet St'. I remember being at the first row at the very first concert of the Lovesexy tour. They opened with 'Alphabet St' and there was a car that was suspended in the air just outside the edge of the circular scene. It could be driven around and Prince jumped into that as he sang "I'm gonna drive my daddy's Thunderbird". I thought it was so cool! :)
The Plattamat sounded bouncy and dynamic just like before, almost pushing the song forward. And once again, certain things stood out and felt more pronounced than I was used to. When I went back to the felt mat I did slightly prefer the sound, but more importantly the groove and the progress of the song made more sense. Quite simply, I felt the interplay between the musicians were more subtle and nuanced.
When doing an evaluation with the Tune Method, it doesn't matter what music you choose - the result will always be the same. I have listened to a lot of different mats in the past, and so far none has beaten the felt. The Plattamat does have some interesting sound qualities, but when evaluated with the Tune Method it doesn't perform as good as a standard Linn felt mat to my ears.
Once again, many thanks to John for giving me the opportunity to listen to his creation!
Fredrik.
Thanks for giving your time to this review, it is very much appreciated: though I must say I kind of guessed the outcome would go the way of the Linn felt mat.
Honestly though, felt mats do absolutely nothing for me and I've tried numerous over the years, awful things which I find just kills the music.
I think the saying goes something like this "Trust your own ears" and with music reproduction being a very personal and subjective, I guess you know what you like and I certainly know what I like.
I dare say then that we agree to disagree and so perhaps we should close this chapter here. Isn't it great that we have variety in life and choice?
Thanks again for your patience and time given to my cause.
Regards
John R
Thanks for giving your time to this review, it is very much appreciated: though I must say I kind of guessed the outcome would go the way of the Linn felt mat.
Honestly though, felt mats do absolutely nothing for me and I've tried numerous over the years, awful things which I find just kills the music.
I think the saying goes something like this "Trust your own ears" and with music reproduction being a very personal and subjective, I guess you know what you like and I certainly know what I like.
I dare say then that we agree to disagree and so perhaps we should close this chapter here. Isn't it great that we have variety in life and choice?
Thanks again for your patience and time given to my cause.
Regards
John R
Sole man
'I certainly know what I like'..?Good grief JohnR this is not art.....you'll be saying..'Call me old fashioned' next.JohnR wrote:Fredrik.
Thanks for giving your time to this review, it is very much appreciated: though I must say I kind of guessed the outcome would go the way of the Linn felt mat.
Honestly though, felt mats do absolutely nothing for me and I've tried numerous over the years, awful things which I find just kills the music.
I think the saying goes something like this "Trust your own ears" and with music reproduction being a very personal and subjective, I guess you know what you like and I certainly know what I like.
I dare say then that we agree to disagree and so perhaps we should close this chapter here. Isn't it great that we have variety in life and choice?
Thanks again for your patience and time given to my cause.
Regards
John R
If I was developing a product and someone said it doesnt have such and such I'd be trying to get hold of that such and such..I think you owe Fredrik an apology ..you should have stopped at appreciated..your resposnse is something you hear down the pub...You've got NO chance
I know that tune
I'm sorry! What are you suggesting? That I try and produce something that sounds essentially the same as a felt mat and have to apologise for having a damn good try at producing something that some folk actually like? So, no chance with you perhaps but that does not deter me one iota; on the contrary, that comment of yours give me strength.Lego wrote:
'I certainly know what I like'..?Good grief JohnR this is not art.....you'll be saying..'Call me old fashioned' next.
If I was developing a product and someone said it doesnt have such and such I'd be trying to get hold of that such and such..I think you owe Fredrik an apology ..you should have stopped at appreciated..your resposnse is something you hear down the pub...You've got NO chance
So I think Lego, you are way off the mark here. As for not having any chance. I guess time will tell and I've got time aplenty Sir. It is early days just now, but to date I have sold 30 Plattamats to very happy customers.
If Fredrik wishes to remove this thread then that's fine by me. I have after all, thanked him for giving me and my product time, which is more than I can say for some !
It is obvious to me that I made a mistake in registering with this forum in order to respond to a thread about my product.
I shall cease to post on here from now on as we are clearly at odds with our views and beliefs. But you live and learn..
John R
Sole man
Hi Everyone, :D
This thread might have reached the point where any added words can only make things worse -- and even if it hasn't reached that point, perhaps yours truly lacks the tact to make a meaningful contribution -- but here goes.... :D
1) Everyone: I think JohnR deserves kudos for being bold enough to send a sample to Mr. Lejonklou for review. His response to that review was rather strongly worded, but I think the point he was trying to make was that the sonic & performance signature he sought for the Plattamat is not one that can be achieved by a felt mat, and that he himself does not care for the "felt" sound. Although his choice of words was unfortunate, his basic position is not one that is necessarily offensive to us: certainly there are many audio enthusiasts who do not value the Tune Method we (and Linn) use to evaluate components and tweaks, and if JohnR wishes to serve those other enthusiasts, then we can sincerely wish him well in that endeavor. In any case it was brave of him to send a Plattamat sample to Mr. Lejonklou without imposing any conditions on its use (e.g., it's not unheard of for manufacturers to send samples only on the understanding that they get to see the text of the review before it goes out) -- any entrepreneur (or writer, or composer, or performer, etc.) will feel a pang of heartache on seeing his "baby" criticized in a public review, and that he was willing to take that risk is commendable.
In any event, Mr. Lejonklou's review suggests that JohnR's products are not intended for the community served here on this forum, and JohnR's own remarks support that conclusion -- again, there are many audio enthusiasts who do not value our metrics and standards, and one can certainly try to make a living serving the sonic desires of those other demographics. :D
2) JohnR: In a day or two I'm going to edit / delete what follows, and I hope you will have a chance to read things before they disappear:
In a former life I was product and project manager of a successful consumer electronics product (one that you might well have heard of, but we'll leave it at that). In this capacity I had to oversee marketing & product launch strategies and tactics, and since then I've worked with student entrepreneurs at the University in which I teach, helping technical folks find ways to take their beloved creations out of the lab & workshop and into the open marketplace. And in this capacity I offer the following (rather harsh) words -- not out of anger or malice, but from professional concern:
JohnR, your temper and emotional language, should they continue as they have both here and on the Linn forum, are going to cause you great difficulties in launching and sustaining a product you clearly love. Whether or not your product has merit, your potential customers will base their decisions in large part upon perceptions of how competent and skilled is the person behind the product. If you are unfailingly graceful, polite, measured, and respectful to critics and skeptics, then they will see your steadfast support of your products as a evidence that you have carefully considered the pros and cons of your products and have arrived at an optimal solution. Conversely, if you are rude, or easily annoyed, or dismissive, or even contemptuous of those who disagree with you, then some customers will rally around you in the manner of groupies and true believers, whilst others will dismiss you as an impassioned but one-sided hobbyist. In general (in most consumer markets), the second category of potential customers (those who regard angry entrepreneurs as quacks, rather than as heroes) tends to be considerably larger than the first. And as such you are jeopardizing your product's chances by displaying strong negative emotions in a forum such as this.
Speaking professionally, I would suggest you may wish to go back and delete / edit the words you have just written (quoted below, in a quote "box" that I will delete with the rest of this section in a day or two)
Again, best wishes with your product, and may you have continued success in finding and serving customers who value the performance attributes you seek. :D
-C
This thread might have reached the point where any added words can only make things worse -- and even if it hasn't reached that point, perhaps yours truly lacks the tact to make a meaningful contribution -- but here goes.... :D
1) Everyone: I think JohnR deserves kudos for being bold enough to send a sample to Mr. Lejonklou for review. His response to that review was rather strongly worded, but I think the point he was trying to make was that the sonic & performance signature he sought for the Plattamat is not one that can be achieved by a felt mat, and that he himself does not care for the "felt" sound. Although his choice of words was unfortunate, his basic position is not one that is necessarily offensive to us: certainly there are many audio enthusiasts who do not value the Tune Method we (and Linn) use to evaluate components and tweaks, and if JohnR wishes to serve those other enthusiasts, then we can sincerely wish him well in that endeavor. In any case it was brave of him to send a Plattamat sample to Mr. Lejonklou without imposing any conditions on its use (e.g., it's not unheard of for manufacturers to send samples only on the understanding that they get to see the text of the review before it goes out) -- any entrepreneur (or writer, or composer, or performer, etc.) will feel a pang of heartache on seeing his "baby" criticized in a public review, and that he was willing to take that risk is commendable.
In any event, Mr. Lejonklou's review suggests that JohnR's products are not intended for the community served here on this forum, and JohnR's own remarks support that conclusion -- again, there are many audio enthusiasts who do not value our metrics and standards, and one can certainly try to make a living serving the sonic desires of those other demographics. :D
2) JohnR: In a day or two I'm going to edit / delete what follows, and I hope you will have a chance to read things before they disappear:
In a former life I was product and project manager of a successful consumer electronics product (one that you might well have heard of, but we'll leave it at that). In this capacity I had to oversee marketing & product launch strategies and tactics, and since then I've worked with student entrepreneurs at the University in which I teach, helping technical folks find ways to take their beloved creations out of the lab & workshop and into the open marketplace. And in this capacity I offer the following (rather harsh) words -- not out of anger or malice, but from professional concern:
JohnR, your temper and emotional language, should they continue as they have both here and on the Linn forum, are going to cause you great difficulties in launching and sustaining a product you clearly love. Whether or not your product has merit, your potential customers will base their decisions in large part upon perceptions of how competent and skilled is the person behind the product. If you are unfailingly graceful, polite, measured, and respectful to critics and skeptics, then they will see your steadfast support of your products as a evidence that you have carefully considered the pros and cons of your products and have arrived at an optimal solution. Conversely, if you are rude, or easily annoyed, or dismissive, or even contemptuous of those who disagree with you, then some customers will rally around you in the manner of groupies and true believers, whilst others will dismiss you as an impassioned but one-sided hobbyist. In general (in most consumer markets), the second category of potential customers (those who regard angry entrepreneurs as quacks, rather than as heroes) tends to be considerably larger than the first. And as such you are jeopardizing your product's chances by displaying strong negative emotions in a forum such as this.
Speaking professionally, I would suggest you may wish to go back and delete / edit the words you have just written (quoted below, in a quote "box" that I will delete with the rest of this section in a day or two)
You have clearly put a lot of time and effort into your product, and it would be a pity to destroy potential sales at this point by showing impatience with those who disagree with you. Certainly you have a product that serves the desires and needs of some audio enthusiasts (as evidenced by your sales to date and by the testimonials posted on the Linn forum); if those enthusiasts are not to be found on this forum, then you can move on to more hospitable venues while being graceful to the folks here.I'm sorry! What are you suggesting? That I try and produce something that sounds essentially the same as a felt mat and have to apologise for having a damn good try at producing something that some folk actually like? So, no chance with you perhaps but that does not deter me one iota; on the contrary, that comment of yours give me strength.
So I think Lego, you are way off the mark here. As for not having any chance. I guess time will tell and I've got time aplenty Sir. It is early days just now, but to date I have sold 30 Plattamats to very happy customers.
If Fredrik wishes to remove this thread then that's fine by me. I have after all, thanked him for giving me and my product time, which is more than I can say for some !
It is obvious to me that I made a mistake in registering with this forum in order to respond to a thread about my product.
I shall cease to post on here from now on as we are clearly at odds with our views and beliefs. But you live and learn..
John R
Again, best wishes with your product, and may you have continued success in finding and serving customers who value the performance attributes you seek. :D
-C