Tundra 1.2 and Sonus faber Cremona M?

[lejonklou]

Good to read this comment. Should we conclude that the SF Cremona can not sound good? This could be true given the numerous posts on other sites on what might be the right amp for this speaker. Many owners seem to face this problem. More power seems to be the best solution. But not a perfect solution on the overall. Any other report from SF Cremona owners if any here is still welcome.
Thanks for the input so far.

I haven't heard the Cremonas, so can't comment on them. As Music Lover mentioned, could it be due to installation? Have you tried various distances from the back wall, apart, moved sideways with fixed distance apart and, finally, a slight toe in versus straight forward? If these are possible in your room.

I will try avoiding a rant, but it's quite common to blame poor speaker performance on the power amp. When the customer who bought a new expensive (but how good, really?) speaker is not happy, the seller's most convenient and profitable option is to blame the customers amp and sell him a more expensive one. If the customer is still not happy, he is suggested an even more expensive amp. And as the amplifier really is more important than the speaker for the final result, the customer is often happy in the end. And convinced that his new speakers are really difficult to drive...

But if the customer would go back to his original speakers, now driven by his new great amps, he just might be in for a surprise. Maybe they were actually better?

[tokenbrit]

( post moved to a PM so as to avoid drifting too far off topic :)

[Spannko]

It's also important to have switch and NAS (in that order) on a separate strip, connected to a wall socket rather close to the one that feeds the main strip. Sometimes it's best to feed it off the second part of a double outlet.

I've found this to be important too, but I can't, for the life of me, figure out why!

Many forum posters say that it's best to separate the supplies feeding analog and digital components as far as possible, even using separate spurs or rings if possible. I've found this approach to sound considerably worse than having all the components plugged in as close as possible.

The problem I have with understanding this is because none of my network components are earthed (they're all double insulated), so it's got nothing to do with earthing (the usual culprit). I wondered if it's due to ensuring that the AC waves feeding the power supplies are synchronised, but for a 5% shift, the sockets would need to be about 700m apart!

Typing this has made me wonder about the effect of the neutral line on performance, but I don't know enough about electrics to figure out why. However, I know that the neutral line is grounded at the sub-station, so the neutrals are not entirely divorced from the earth.

Thinking out aloud, the earth is often described as the reference for the system. I wonder if the real reference is the neutral, which is held at 0V by the earth. That might mean that with double insulated supplies, it's even more important to share the same electricity supply, so all the neutrals are at, as near as possible, the same (0V) voltage. This all sounds like a bit of electro-babble, taken directly from "How to Bluff Your Way on HiFi Forums", but it may spark a thought in those who know what they are talking about.

[ambior]

Good to read this comment. Should we conclude that the SF Cremona can not sound good? This could be true given the numerous posts on other sites on what might be the right amp for this speaker. Many owners seem to face this problem. More power seems to be the best solution. But not a perfect solution on the overall. Any other report from SF Cremona owners if any here is still welcome.
Thanks for the input so far.

I haven't heard the Cremonas, so can't comment on them. As Music Lover mentioned, could it be due to installation? Have you tried various distances from the back wall, apart, moved sideways with fixed distance apart and, finally, a slight toe in versus straight forward? If these are possible in your room.

I will try avoiding a rant, but it's quite common to blame poor speaker performance on the power amp. When the customer who bought a new expensive (but how good, really?) speaker is not happy, the seller's most convenient and profitable option is to blame the customers amp and sell him a more expensive one. If the customer is still not happy, he is suggested an even more expensive amp. And as the amplifier really is more important than the speaker for the final result, the customer is often happy in the end. And convinced that his new speakers are really difficult to drive...

But if the customer would go back to his original speakers, now driven by his new great amps, he just might be in for a surprise. Maybe they were actually better?

Hard to believe: removing the spikes (leaving the spike support plates) and letting rest the speaker right on the carpet solved the problem...the music is back...
The carpet lays on a solid wooden floor glued to the concrete floor.
Most probably the back of the carpet is too strong to let the spikes pass through.

[Music Lover]

Very likely wrong direction. I suggest you reinstall the spikes and get Skeets.

[ambior]

Very likely wrong direction. I suggest you reinstall the spikes and get Skeets.

Thanks for the suggestion. But why should i: it sounds close to perfection this way...I know it's against all rules but worth to try it...

[ambior]

Indeed, must admit that tilting again improved transparency and detail.
Spikes however do not help in my case. Suppose they float in the thick carpet instead of adding stability.
On the other hand these testings revealed that in fact i do not really need another amp or that it would really be interesting to look for a Tundra f.i. and keep the Cremona. Why not...
So end of this topic.

[ThomasOK]

Not really an end to the topic. Despite the fact that it seems counterintuitive, several of us have found speakers on carpet can be more musical with spikes on Linn Skeets placed on the carpet. One of my customers has Artikulat 350As and there is no question that this is superior in his situation over spikes through the carpet. Of course, it also lets you adjust for optimum rake. I should also mention that I have heard other Sf speakers wound better without their spikes going through the carpet so this is not a shock.

So I suggest you follow Music Lover's advice and get a set of Linn skeets under your spikes - you might be surprised.

[ambior]

Thanks ThomasOK.
Do you mean these: http://www.linn.co.uk/hifi-separates/ac ... protectors ?
SF includes similar parts in their supply but using them on the carpet has no effect.

[Efraim roots]

Thanks ThomasOK.
Do you mean these: http://www.linn.co.uk/hifi-separates/ac ... protectors ?
SF includes similar parts in their supply but using them on the carpet has no effect.

Yes that is the ones mentioned, Linn Skeets. I've tried a few different of those 'floor protectors' and they "sound" really different actually, the Linn Skeets are really good but also Naim 'fraim chips' (very expensive tho).