Playground for practical listening exercises

[Defender]

I like after after even more - sounds like the piano player warmed up and the piano notes are more in tune.
but x-check with others ;)

[Spannko]

I like after after even more - sounds like the piano player warmed up and the piano notes are more in tune.
but x-check with others ;)

Same here

[beck]

Thank you for your comments. I agree. :-)

[Charlie1]

Sorry beck, I really struggle with that track, especially his singing. I wonder if the original recording is a bit out of tune as it grates with me.

Also, knowing how my own recordings can drift between days, or times of day, it would be good to hear the 'before' and 'after' during the same listening session. Sorry to be picky.

[beck]

Sorry beck, I really struggle with that track, especially his singing. I wonder if the original recording is a bit out of tune as it grates with me.

Also, knowing how my own recordings can drift between days, or times of day, it would be good to hear the 'before' and 'after' during the same listening session. Sorry to be picky.

No worry. :-) Do you think it is getting worse.. ?

[Charlie1]

I tried again on another laptop and do think they get progressively better. I wasn't sure about the first comparison earlier on though (i.e. before vs after).

[V.A.MKD]

Yes Defender,
"Harshness" is right word to describe improvement ...

interesting - what was jumping into my face was that the voice sounded much cleaner and more emotional in the second clip
some kind of harshness is gone (was it one of your clips where I stated more musical but still kind of „hard“)

[V.A.MKD]

After: somehow easier to follow ...

Small cable correction to the “After” clip:

New After: https://www.dropbox.com/s/s88srpq2rqo1l ... 3.mov?dl=0

[V.A.MKD]

Hi Defender,
For me is better position 1;
Background:
More nuances, more emotions in the voice ...

By the way, great easygoing sound ...

you are lucky Thomas - its great to have wonderful equipment on one side and on the other side the capabilities to hear and optimize small things to make it even better - some people have either one or the other or none.

here is an example for clocking the platter - those positions are 5 minutes away

Position 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s5lgh0t7cu5qf ... 6.mov?dl=0

Position 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r96xaaz2run4j ... 8.mov?dl=0

[V.A.MKD]

Mhm ...
Same here, I also do same mistake in the past ...
But, now whenever I change something I only change one thing ... not several

thank you for reassuring me - I was hunting for a musicality which I had in memory and lost but changed other things like tracking weight and anti skating and couldn’t remember where I lost it.
It shows how important it is to be sure before you do the next step.
I need to be more structured with my changes.

[V.A.MKD]

Hi Thomas,
This is priceless, your knowledge, but as well priceless is your goodwill to share your knowledge with us here ...
Thank you,
Vlado

I meant to answer that but it slipped past me. Yes, I have been clocking the platter for several years and I find that a one minute difference, or even less, is audible. Start by putting a thin pencil line across the junction of the platters and listen at 3, 6, 9 and 12 O'Clock. Pay attention to which two are the most musical as it will be between those two. If they happen to be 180 degrees apart then you want to figure the third best to know what side to try. I find that you can get a good idea of where to go next by how good the different places sound. If one sounds really good it will be pretty close to there but possibly a little towards the second best. If the first and second best are similar it will be close to midway between the two. Then just keep trying smaller increments until you find where it is just right. I just finished doing one earlier today and I found a really good place but had to test both sides to make sure. I ended up back where I thought was really good but it took me a while to get back to that same exact position. When I'm done I erase one of the pencil lines and put a black marker line across the two platters. It does also make a slight improvement to have the outer platter centered on the inner platter. You need a very thin feeler gauge to get it done, or some have used pieces of post it notes. To be honest it is fairly small and I don't always bother to do it on my table.

The mat has a top and a bottom. I mark the bottom with a little sticker.

The belt has both an inside and an outside, the inside is the smoother side. It also has a top and a bottom which you find after you have the right side in place. Like all these you have to find the right orientation by listening using the tune method. I then put three small arrows on the belt with a marker pointing in the direction the belt moves when on the proper way.

[V.A.MKD]

Thank you Defender, yes, that was putted by me, issue like question ...
Thank you for your answer ...
Vlado

@Vlado: not sure if there was a question from you about TT Mat tune and clocking the platter

The felt mat has a musical side and a not so musical side I can make clips for the playground.

Clocking the platter is also important - it makes a difference what position the outer platter has on the inner platter - like a clock if the 12 o'clock position is moving to 3 or 6 or 9 o'clock while the inner platter keeps the same.
Even 5 Minute steps are detectable.
Ron can even detect clocking the felt mat.
Some make sure the inner platter and the outer platter have a tiny small gap between each other.

[V.A.MKD]

Hi Ron The Mon,
Thank you for your precise ideas ... I already remove additional 7 drivers (first removed 12 drivers) and there is difference, not huge, but harshness is gone from complete audio specter and naturalness of instruments is much better ...
The only 2 that stays are from TV, but at the end of day ... it's living room and I can live with that 2 ... anyway improvement was good ... cost me a little bit walking from point A to point B (here is smiley), but it's OK ...
Vlado

... Please give idea where else is hidden that DRIVER, in every days electronics ...

Vlado,
All or most PCs have a small speaker on the motherboard to alert you of a proper startup or faults. All it does is "beep". Remove that computer from the room and listen if it affects hi-fi playback. If it does, stuff some cotton from a swab in the speaker hole and cover it in epoxy. Many epoxies come in syringes perfect for this job. When it hardens, you'll hear a much muted "beep" and it won't affect the function of the computer.

A more difficult speaker to eliminate is smoke detectors. These are for safety. I have removed all from my listening room. However, I do have them on the ceiling on the other side of the two entries so when the doors are closed, I get best sound. When I am asleep, all doors are open. Choose safety over musical performance, but both can be accomplished.

Greeting cards that play music when you open them are very common now. These reduce sound quality as well.

Toys, plush animals, and knick-knacks can contain speakers.

Before going crazy removing any of these items, listen and see if you can hear any difference.

Ron The Mon

[V.A.MKD]

I learned ... (here 2 smiley), but anyway I will send you private message if I need help.
Vlado

... Please give idea where else is hidden that DRIVER, in every days electronics ...

By the way, can I suggest when you quote a post, only quote what is necessary (as I did above in this very post). Your posts are funny and interesting but it gets tedious scrolling through unnecessary reposts. Use the Preview feature to see how your post will look before submitting. If you need help, send me a private message and I'll gladly tutor you.

Ron The Mon

[V.A.MKD]

For me Second Clip is more musical ...
A litle bit more emotions in guitar and cello ...

Clip 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vuh9io2f2tzz4 ... m.mov?dl=0

Clip 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qe63x073qzrb5 ... m.mov?dl=0

[V.A.MKD]

Thank you ThomasOK,
Until now I remove 19 "hidden drivers" and improvement is here, "visible", I can only imagine how big sub-woofers can "destroy" sound, especially in excellent room and system as yours ...

On to your question about other speakers in the room - yes, it means all of them. I went to the Linn and Naim factories in 1983 when I was working for the US importer. Linn was training the 10 dealers we brought with us and they had a session about getting the best of a system that covered the single speaker demo rooms which they had started pushing a bit before that time. They did a typical demonstration of bringing a small speaker into the room with the Isobariks playing so that everybody could hear what it did to the music. It was quite clear. They were answering questions and said that telephones, speakers in TVs and even the beeper in a digital watch would cause a musical loss. They explained that although the driver was very small, it was also exceedingly efficient, and would cause a problem. This caused one of the skeptics to ask for a demo so they did an A/B where he covered the expensive digital watch on his wrist for B. The improvement was clearly audible to all there, including the skeptic. So, yeah, this is something I have been cognizant of for a long time and have removed speakers from several TV sets over the years and made sure there were no telephones in the room, etc. The fact is there are indeed now speakers and microphones (which are speakers in reverse) in half of everything electronic. I have managed to minimize them in my listening room as it has no TV, my doorbell is mechanical and when I want to get really serious I take my watch off. (Actually, I've never been overly fond of wristwatches so I habitually take my watch off and put it on the bathroom counter as soon as I get home.) However, this also means there are speakers in the room whenever you are making a recording with your iPhone or other device. Likewise, there are probably beepers in my LS-NAS and HAKAI that I should probably rip out! The list is indeed long.

The woofer has been in the room almost always disconnected with its input shorted since last April when I returned from the show. The system sounds so good I didn't miss it and I had concerns about using it, concerns that were justified. But I will save that for the My System section. Suffice it to say that after a few experiments I decided the sub no longer belonged in the room and decided to make before and after clips.

[beck]

Sorry beck, I really struggle with that track, especially his singing. I wonder if the original recording is a bit out of tune as it grates with me.

Also, knowing how my own recordings can drift between days, or times of day, it would be good to hear the 'before' and 'after' during the same listening session. Sorry to be picky.

Ahh, in all the changes and moving out I have tried another power cable on my amp. Maybe that is what you are reacting to. We will see. I will make a power cable shoot out later. :-)

[V.A.MKD]

Quality of AC can be issue. Depend of the area where is your home ... living, business, close to industrial = in different part of the day you have different quality of AC ...
Tray to detect when your system sounds best ...

Sorry beck, I really struggle with that track, especially his singing. I wonder if the original recording is a bit out of tune as it grates with me.

Also, knowing how my own recordings can drift between days, or times of day, it would be good to hear the 'before' and 'after' during the same listening session. Sorry to be picky.

Ahh, in all the changes and moving out I have tried another power cable on my amp. Maybe that is what you are reacting to. We will see. I will make a power cable shoot out later. :-)

[Tendaberry]

Hi all, due to a "freezing" problem with my ADSM, I had to do a factory reset and go from my favourite Davaar 4.67.262 to the newest 4.75.355. What do you think, is the new one (clip 2) bearable?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kic89nltyai8b ... 4.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/34f5nvy1yzwxr ... 1.mov?dl=0

[Charlie1]

Hi all, due to a "freezing" problem with my ADSM, I had to do a factory reset and go from my favourite Davaar 4.67.262 to the newest 4.75.355. What do you think, is the new one (clip 2) bearable?

Definitely not as good is it. It's a bit jerky / mechanical by comparison. Only you can decide if it's 'good enough' though.

[V.A.MKD]

I choose Second Clip.
Background:
Easier to follow "Tune" and all instruments separately, better low register ...

Hi all, due to a "freezing" problem with my ADSM, I had to do a factory reset and go from my favourite Davaar 4.67.262 to the newest 4.75.355. What do you think, is the new one (clip 2) bearable?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kic89nltyai8b ... 4.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/34f5nvy1yzwxr ... 1.mov?dl=0

[Defender]

difficult for me seems like a choice between more details (clip2) vs. more rhythm (clip1) I lean towards clip 1
but really tough to decide thats the usual traps I am falling into

[Tendaberry]

In room I definitely prefer clip 1 (old software), the new one is turning out to be unnaturally sharp in the treble. And like Charlie said, it's also hectic and a bit jerky. I have to stay with it a couple of days to see if it cures the "freezing" problem, if not, I'll certainly go back.

[Spannko]

Hi all, due to a "freezing" problem with my ADSM, I had to do a factory reset and go from my favourite Davaar 4.67.262 to the newest 4.75.355. What do you think, is the new one (clip 2) bearable?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kic89nltyai8b ... 4.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/34f5nvy1yzwxr ... 1.mov?dl=0

I have a preference for clip 1 too. It’s downloading as I type this!

EDIT: After listening on my system I think the latest firmware works well. In the good old days, firmware “upgrades” could be deal breakers, but recently the latest firmwares seem to be OK

EDIT: EDIT: I’ve just seen your response to charlie1. To me, the latest firmware is easier to listen to. This does make me wonder if it’s really possible to compare ADS firmwares to KDS firmwares? My guess is possibly not, since the firmwares are not identical.

[Charlie1]

Something cheap to try out arrived today. This one is a surprise. Same Nait/LP12 in each clip.

Normal:
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1nll6cqug21c ... D.MOV?dl=0
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/dpjatdwni8vlx ... D.MOV?dl=0

Something New:
1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/lqmedcx15olqz ... D.MOV?dl=0
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/zkeobd59zhrug ... D.MOV?dl=0

The volume is identical on track 2. Just had to match as best as possible for track 1. If I'd have thought about it beforehand I should have used a track with similar volume.