Playground for practical listening exercises

[Spannko]

I prefer the first clip too.

[ThomasOK]

I prefer the first clip on this one as well. Easier to follow and more emotion in the voice. I do find that the differences don't appear to be as big as in the first set of clips but I put that down to the digital recording having less resolution in the first place. Still sounds pretty good on before.

In my experience there is really no way to make a system better for digital vs. analog. You either improve the musicality or you make it worse and the change has the same effect on both types of source. Certainly there those who have tried to tame digital nasties with a soft/warm tube stage somewhere in the mix but as I explain to my customers two wrongs don't make a right in Hi-Fi any more than anywhere else. You reduce the digital nasties but you reduce the musical involvement as well. I think we are finding out that much of the digital nastiness (but certainly not all) has just been that we weren't yet good enough at decoding it in a way that allowed us to extract enough music to tickle our ears. As with analog, each true step forward makes more music enjoyable. A better system will let you get into both types of recordings/carriers more fully, although so far analog has always been the more enjoyable. But I find with my system now I can really enjoy streamed music and I expect that to improve further with the next change coming up.

[beck]

As always good input from the forum. It makes sense for me to play ping pong this way. :-)

Next step for me will be to get my Ekos tracking force dial repaired!

I prefer the first clip on this one as well. Easier to follow and more emotion in the voice. I do find that the differences don't appear to be as big as in the first set of clips but I put that down to the digital recording having less resolution in the first place. Still sounds pretty good on before.

In my experience there is really no way to make a system better for digital vs. analog. You either improve the musicality or you make it worse and the change has the same effect on both types of source. Certainly there those who have tried to tame digital nasties with a soft/warm tube stage somewhere in the mix but as I explain to my customers two wrongs don't make a right in Hi-Fi any more than anywhere else. You reduce the digital nasties but you reduce the musical involvement as well. I think we are finding out that much of the digital nastiness (but certainly not all) has just been that we weren't yet good enough at decoding it in a way that allowed us to extract enough music to tickle our ears. As with analog, each true step forward makes more music enjoyable. A better system will let you get into both types of recordings/carriers more fully, although so far analog has always been the more enjoyable. But I find with my system now I can really enjoy streamed music and I expect that to improve further with the next change coming up.

[tokenbrit]

1st/before for me too, fwiw.

[beck]

1st/before for me too, fwiw.

It is funny and I do not think it only is me that find it easier to listen to other peoples clips than ones own. The difference being that you have heard your own system before you recorded it and made some choices based on the sound in the room. Being close to what is going on is not always for the better.
It is so easy for me now to hear the life in the “ before” clip and the lack of same in the “after” clip. :-)

[Charlie1]

Yes, same here. Easier when you have no vested interest in the outcome.

[beck]

Yes, same here. Easier when you have no vested interest in the outcome.

The next step will be Lejonklou making clips for us to comment on before making final decision about a new amp! ;-)

[beck]

The one thing that is left to comment on is that with my after setup the squeeze of the intervals in the music is gone from the digital recordings. I could not play convincingly together with the digital recordings using the before setup. Tone is further away from playing with analog tube recordings but pitch is good:

After: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xqzobo1x2vpsx ... 7.mov?dl=0

(Having fun)

After: https://www.dropbox.com/s/d1mbfr0keimhw ... 8.mov?dl=0

Not precise enough from start but I get there! :-)

The density and contact I hear in the tone of the clarinet is the way I want my system to move in the future. The recording is however crucial to get a result that comes near.

My after setup was a step in the wrong direction.

[tokenbrit]

1st/before for me too, fwiw.

It is funny and I do not think it only is me that find it easier to listen to other peoples clips than ones own. The difference being that you have heard your own system before you recorded it and made some choices based on the sound in the room. Being close to what is going on is not always for the better.
It is so easy for me now to hear the life in the “ before” clip and the lack of same in the “after” clip. :-)

I think the key, corollary to Charlie's comment, is that as impartial observers with no vested in the outcome, we don't / shouldn't bring any expectation bias in favour of or against a particular clip - that's the beauty of these listening exercises: impartiality.

[beck]

Sorry for trying once more. I just find this very interesting:

Before (digital remaster):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1l5iv9qsmbd7m ... 7.mov?dl=0

Before (analog):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/036kp9a29cu48 ... 4.mov?dl=0

After (digital remaster):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/asr6lgct5egcb ... 8.mov?dl=0


Question: Can anyone hear the change in the relation between the notes from before to after (digital remaster)?

[Charlie1]

I’ve only compared the before digital and after digital, for now. Can’t cope with any more than that :)

Sorry beck, but I still prefer before. I just get into the groove of the music more.

[beck]

I’ve only compared the before digital and after digital, for now. Can’t cope with any more than that :)

Sorry beck, but I still prefer before. I just get into the groove of the music more.

You are too quick. I have to get the clips sorted! :-)

[beck]

I’ve only compared the before digital and after digital, for now. Can’t cope with any more than that :)

Sorry beck, but I still prefer before. I just get into the groove of the music more.

You are too quick. I have to get the clips sorted! :-)

I just want to know if any can hear the change in the relation between the notes on the digital remaster on before and after. Not what is best....... :-)

[Charlie1]

Can you help educate us on what to listen for. Is there a good example at a certain point. I just hear a song, with the notes in after digital sounding more jumbled up.

[beck]

Can you help educate us on what to listen for. Is there a good example at a certain point. I just hear a song, with the notes in after digital sounding more jumbled up.

No, sorry. This is my last try to see if it can be heard through the clips. :-)

But your decription is right. You hear a change. You can try without headphones. Listen for the pitch of the
bass.

I will go so far as to say that your decription is accurate. Jumbled is a good word! Not what I was aiming at but right.


I got my answer. Thank you for listening and thank you Charlie1. You have been great! :-)

[beck]

I think the key....... is that as impartial observers with no vested in the outcome, we don't / shouldn't bring any expectation bias in favour of or against a particular clip - that's the beauty of these listening exercises: impartiality.

[tokenbrit]

Bold statement? ;) :)

[beck]

You only know what you had when you loose it!

But mistakes can be useful. Jumbled is the key word mentioned by Charlie1. Never steady but always oscillating around the core of the signal. This sound comes because of the spring inside my Ekos tracking dial force having moved itself (my guess).
The interesting thing is that the sound now becomes less dense and more see through like.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wzmk1d6j6xcrg ... 2.mov?dl=0

My system at its best:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hfo3yhtjjmup7 ... 1.mov?dl=0

[Charlie1]

You only know what you had when you loose it!

But mistakes can be useful. Jumbled is the key word mentioned by Charlie1. Never steady but always oscillating around the core of the signal. This sound comes because of the spring inside my Ekos tracking dial force having moved itself (my guess).
The interesting thing is that the sound now becomes less dense and more see through like.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wzmk1d6j6xcrg ... 2.mov?dl=0

My system at its best:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hfo3yhtjjmup7 ... 1.mov?dl=0

I don't know what to say mate. Is there any way you can get it fixed? The current setup literally seems a different pitch, a fraction deeper.

It's quite a bit difference. Is this JUST the anti skate dial?

[Efraim roots]

Refurbished Nait 1 (Class A) vs Naim-serviced Nait 5i below. The Nait 1 only arrived today, so it might not have been used much since the work on it a month or so ago. I'm having to use a tiny Din-to-RCA adaptor cos I have Urika. It's not the 'supposedly' superior red LED earlier version. The 5i has had a fair amount of use since its check up early this year.

Both Naits were powered on for a couple of hours first. Tried to approximate the same volume as best as I could. I will only keep one of them.

Nait 1:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/acuppa6c1s9px ... 9.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hzdion2gb56ur ... 0.MOV?dl=0

Nait 5:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dgdsd6bv6nqqr ... 6.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jf5zpbeg6y947 ... 7.MOV?dl=0

For reference, here's the KK1D and Tundra 2.5:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ex8d6ptbz3mw ... 9.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/knb0vse98ptlr ... 0.MOV?dl=0

Yeah! Very nice comparison indeed. You got to love the original nait don't you? It's a wonder!

Are you running the naits with 2.48m split K400? Did you try NACA5? I recommend min. 5m length NACA5.

[Charlie1]

Just the normal 2.48 K400. I will try to source 5m of 2nd hand NACA5.

[beck]

You only know what you had when you loose it!

But mistakes can be useful. Jumbled is the key word mentioned by Charlie1. Never steady but always oscillating around the core of the signal. This sound comes because of the spring inside my Ekos tracking dial force having moved itself (my guess).
The interesting thing is that the sound now becomes less dense and more see through like.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wzmk1d6j6xcrg ... 2.mov?dl=0

My system at its best:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hfo3yhtjjmup7 ... 1.mov?dl=0

I don't know what to say mate. Is there any way you can get it fixed? The current setup literally seems a different pitch, a fraction deeper.

It's quite a bit difference. Is this JUST the anti skate dial?

There is always a solution around the corner. I am on my way back:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9dxkoqbkjn23 ... 5.mov?dl=0

My system is very sensitive to changes. I guess it is because of the weird setup and because of the more direct rute for the signal not using a preamp.

A funny observation: the only times I have ever considered “better” interconnects and hardware is the few (yes few) situations where the sound from my system has been way off. The rest of the time I cannot imagine anything being wrong with the sound I am hearing. :-)

All my fooling around is now paying me back. I am now enjoying my digital recordings as much as I ever had. They have their own sound just as analog has but musically they do not annoy me anymore.

[beck]

Interesting dilemma:

Old setup gives me the “flesh and blood” sound I love but does not let me enjoy my digitally recorded records without thinking “something is wrong”.

New setup gives me a “botox” like sound that lets me enjoy my digitally recorded records as well as my analog records without thinking something is wrong (but with less “human” contact).

Old: (digi) https://www.dropbox.com/s/bxgbs6xr9vx5d ... 1.mov?dl=0

(ana) https://www.dropbox.com/s/xbr1swbpu1r7b ... 1.mov?dl=0

New:(digi) https://www.dropbox.com/s/003v552ri2gol ... 6.mov?dl=0

(ana) https://www.dropbox.com/s/ifvqrhebek6n4 ... 5.mov?dl=0

So should I turn back and go for the more “Audio Note” kind of sound or should I go in the new direction accepting a loss of “human” contact?

Maybe I should have two LP12’s with different setups for different recordings? :-)

[Tendaberry]

Judging by listening to the samples on an iMac I would say you don't need 2 LP12's (well, maybe one for monos...).
To me the "old digi" borders on unlistenable. On the iMac the new samples definitely have more groove.

[beck]

If anyone find the overall sound of the clips weird I suspect that the latest update on my ipad has changed it for the worse. As ever just compare the change between the clips.