Playground for practical listening exercises

[Spannko]

Yeah, miles better for me too.

Me too. I look forward to seeing what you did.

[David Neel]

Yeah, miles better for me too.

Me too. I look forward to seeing what you did.

Me too!

[Errol]

Thanks for your comments!

I'd like to share another set about this change:
R2 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1blNDDw ... sp=sharing
L2 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SSkYBM ... sp=sharing

This is all about rca-xlr from Roland (R, R2) to Linn blacks (L, L2) after some burn-in period. New interconnects helped also positioning the JBLs better using traditional Finnish folk music that I lived during my childhood late 60s and 70s (thanks to my parents and grand dads!).

[Defender]

wow was curious what it might be but that change was also unimaginable big for me too and everyone who lives without it and without taking care of positioning the 308’s correctly pays the price

[lejonklou]

L2 for me!

[springwood64]

R2 https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/p0l2918e ... clcby&dl=0
L2 https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6rjyv8o2 ... ni53x&dl=0

Fun track. I prefer L2

[Spannko]

I’ve tried to compare the tracks 3 or 4 times, but the sound keeps cutting out every 5 seconds or so.

[markiteight]

Thanks Errol! Your clips really highlight the importance of getting everything right in order for a product to perform at its best. One major problem with the JBLs is the need to invest in a set of cables in order to make them work. This makes auditioning them challenging: you can't properly assess their performance without committing to a set of custom cables, but with anything less than optimum they can't even hint at their capabilities. I suspect there are a lot of people here who passed on the JBLs having never heard what they can actually do, because they used a set of adaptors or a cheap RCA to XLR cable.

I'd love to link your clips to the 308/708 thread to highlight to future readers the importance of auditioning these (and indeed anything) at their optimum, but that would require you to keep the clips live, and I don't want to impose that on you. I wish we had a way to keep some clips permanently available.

[springwood64]

I wish we had a way to keep some clips permanently available.

I agree - it would be v interesting to maintain an archive of comparison clips that could help practice Tune Method. Any university with a music or audio department interested?

[Errol]

Thank you markiteight and others for kind words!

I'd be happy to share files to common more permanent location. Now I just copied these to google drive where I can keep them as permanent as I'm able to do. I'm really pleased what I hear now in-room. Thanks to Spannko also for directing me to Linn blacks!

So here are the files in google drive (added one as a "whole picture"):
R https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NvQDd3 ... sp=sharing
L https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pJBIWI ... sp=sharing
R2 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1blNDDw ... sp=sharing
L2 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SSkYBM ... sp=sharing
LX https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AmfAY5 ... sp=sharing

[springwood64]

Sorry to be so harsh, Pete, but I’m sure your system used to be so much more enjoyable. Have you got any recordings of your system when you first got your Källa?

Such tough love ;)

I found one surviving clip from May this year. Apologies for another outing of Take Five - I used it extensively when testing different washers on the speakers. Also there seems to be a problem with one of the microphones on my phone, but I thought it best to use the same device for both recordings, tho I accidently rotated the device the opposite way for the later recording.

Before https://photos.app.goo.gl/2DbqF4uS3452oxwe9
After https://photos.app.goo.gl/pN4MiRHkEUWXN1br8

Recorded on Källa

A lot has happened for my speakers between 'Before' and 'After': new knekts on K400, replacement patch connectors, sealed drivers, torqued driver bolts, speaker positioning, added port bung.

[tokenbrit]

I find it difficult when there's a change in presentation... The sax is more forward After; the keyboards and percussion quite a bit further back. The sax has more precision, but less evocative? The elements sound similarly musical but a bit disconnected compared to Before. There's a swing Before that seems a bit trapped now... will be interesting to hear the results of your port experiments.

[Charlie1]

I much prefer ‘after’.

Left hand channel is masked in the ‘after’ clip btw. The phone was not square-on (unlike the first clip) but I suspect the cause was more than that - perhaps the left hand mic was slightly covered. Please channel your inner Kubrick next time :D

[markiteight]

Thank you markiteight and others for kind words!

I'd be happy to share files to common more permanent location. Now I just copied these to google drive where I can keep them as permanent as I'm able to do. I'm really pleased what I hear now in-room. Thanks to Spannko also for directing me to Linn blacks!

So here are the files in google drive (added one as a "whole picture"):
R https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NvQDd3 ... sp=sharing
L https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pJBIWI ... sp=sharing
R2 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1blNDDw ... sp=sharing
L2 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SSkYBM ... sp=sharing
LX https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AmfAY5 ... sp=sharing

Brilliant! Thank you so much, Errol!

I wish we had a way to keep some clips permanently available.

I agree - it would be v interesting to maintain an archive of comparison clips that could help practice Tune Method. Any university with a music or audio department interested?

When I first picked up the moderator torch I floated the idea to Fredrik of creating a definitive tutorial for learning and practicing the Tune Method, including comparison clips that highlight the concepts being discussed. He expressed enthusiasm for the idea but that's as far as things went. It's a daunting task and I'm not sure I'm qualified to do it, but I get the impression such a thing would be well received and useful. It seems like there aren't many dealers left performing Tune Dems for customers, so an online tutorial would be the next best option.

[matthias]

When I first picked up the moderator torch I floated the idea to Fredrik of creating a definitive tutorial for learning and practicing the Tune Method, including comparison clips that highlight the concepts being discussed. He expressed enthusiasm for the idea but that's as far as things went. It's a daunting task and I'm not sure I'm qualified to do it, but I get the impression such a thing would be well received and useful. It seems like there aren't many dealers left performing Tune Dems for customers, so an online tutorial would be the next best option.

Great idea, markiteight!

[springwood64]

When I first picked up the moderator torch I floated the idea to Fredrik of creating a definitive tutorial for learning and practicing the Tune Method, including comparison clips that highlight the concepts being discussed. He expressed enthusiasm for the idea but that's as far as things went. It's a daunting task and I'm not sure I'm qualified to do it, but I get the impression such a thing would be well received and useful. It seems like there aren't many dealers left performing Tune Dems for customers, so an online tutorial would be the next best option.

It can be an incremental task. The Playground allows many to contribute example clips and analyses over time, but it could be improved by something along the following lines:

• Create a dedicated Tune Method sub forum

• Add a pinned post with Fredrik's Tune Method description

• Move the existing Tune Method threads to this sub forum

• Provide somewhere to store clips long term - a service like Box or Google

• Selected clips and analyses from the Playground could be copied or moved to a dedicated tutorial thread, so they are easy to find

The Moderation task would entail moving selected posts and clips when they provide good examples.

Maybe this and related posts belongs under the Forum section?

[Spannko]

Sorry to be so harsh, Pete, but I’m sure your system used to be so much more enjoyable. Have you got any recordings of your system when you first got your Källa?

Such tough love ;)

I found one surviving clip from May this year. Apologies for another outing of Take Five - I used it extensively when testing different washers on the speakers. Also there seems to be a problem with one of the microphones on my phone, but I thought it best to use the same device for both recordings, tho I accidently rotated the device the opposite way for the later recording.

Before https://photos.app.goo.gl/2DbqF4uS3452oxwe9
After https://photos.app.goo.gl/pN4MiRHkEUWXN1br8

Recorded on Källa

A lot has happened for my speakers between 'Before' and 'After': new knekts on K400, replacement patch connectors, sealed drivers, torqued driver bolts, speaker positioning, added port bung.

Thanks for posting the clips Pete 👍

The first thing I did was ask someone who plays in a brass band, and knows absolutely nothing about evaluating a hifi system, for their thoughts on the differences between the two clips. The only difference he could hear was that on “after” the trombone became too dominant, overpowering the other players so, for this reason only, he preferred “before”. I’m not sure how helpful his comments were with respect to which track we would say was more or less tuneful, tbh. On the other hand, it’s known that untrained listeners struggle to explain differences and will often say things like “it feels better”, just like your families response to the changes. Confused? You will be!

As for my own thoughts, I have a preference for “before”. The difference in sound is quite substantial, with “before” sounding “rough and ready to party” and “after” sounding “nice, but partied out”, particularly the drummer, who sounds like he’s nursing a hangover from the night before!

With respect to listening using a tune method, the clips provide an excellent example of what to listen for. The 30 seconds between 2:00 and 2:30 has a repeating bass line, which for me struggles to hit the note and sound harmonious. It seems to struggle timing wise too. For me, this difference contributes to “after” not hitting the spot, musically.

On top of that, the bass notes also sound a bit unnaturally truncated, possibly due to the bungs, as Fredrik suggested?

Sorry for yet more hurty words Pete. Hopefully, Kier Stasi won’t send someone round to have a little word in my shell-like 🤞

[markiteight]

Maybe this and related posts belongs under the Forum section?

Done, and done!
https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... 647#p74647

-Moderator

[springwood64]

I much prefer ‘after’.

Left hand channel is masked in the ‘after’ clip btw. The phone was not square-on (unlike the first clip) but I suspect the cause was more than that - perhaps the left hand mic was slightly covered. Please channel your inner Kubrick next time :D

Thanks! I'm going to use a different device in future because the one I've been using is now dead.

[springwood64]

With respect to listening using a tune method, the clips provide an excellent example of what to listen for. The 30 seconds between 2:00 and 2:30 has a repeating bass line, which for me struggles to hit the note and sound harmonious. It seems to struggle timing wise too. For me, this difference contributes to “after” not hitting the spot, musically.

On top of that, the bass notes also sound a bit unnaturally truncated, possibly due to the bungs, as Fredrik suggested?

Interesting - thanks for taking the time to listen and describe. I can hear what you mean regarding the bass notes.

When I compare the clips and listen for how together the players sound, I prefer after. At the start in 'before', the piano seems to lead the drums, the music seems to drag, whereas in after they all sound together.

However I do prefer the bass notes of before.

The main factor changing the character of the speakers is the driver sealing - I can reverse everything else but not that.

[springwood64]

I'm part way experimenting with straws in the ports. If you're curious I have posted all comparions here: https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... 665#p74665

[tpetsch]

No Bung by a nautical mile for me. ...then they get progressively worse going down the line.

No.2 while sounding very similar is simply less in tune, the same band as No Bung but after several drinks. ...All the rest just no.

For me , the No Bung is the most tuneful of the bunch, the music opens up into the room the most effortlessly and least constrictively.