Playground for practical listening exercises

springwood64 · Post by **springwood64** » 2022-09-20 16:07

Offerdal wrote: ↑2022-09-19 17:38 Now I have a different pickup after my Goldring Troika was gone. Do you hear which pickup that is used right now?
Continue tabletest for the LP12
Happy for your thoughts

G1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/32lbit5oi24np ... 1.mov?dl=0

G2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwk7onkfr387l ... 2.mov?dl=0

H1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oncosabe5e545 ... 1.mov?dl=0

H2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4jejnedlny67x ... 2.mov?dl=0

G1 & G2 for me - esp G2. What's the music? Sounds great

beck · Post by **beck** » 2022-09-20 17:08

I prefer G1 and G2.

Offerdal · Post by **Offerdal** » 2022-09-21 11:15

G= naim Fraim 3 levels ”full Fraim” with standard legs, empty shelf except lp12

H= naim Fraimlite 3 Fraimlite levels with standard legs, empty shelf except lp12

Put a second hand akiva on my ekos II

G1 Kent Kärleken väntar
G2 Kiwanuka Piano joint

matthias · Post by **matthias** » 2022-09-21 11:58

Offerdal wrote: ↑2022-09-21 11:15 G= naim Fraim 3 levels ”full Fraim” with standard legs, empty shelf except lp12
H= naim Fraimlite 3 Fraimlite levels with standard legs, empty shelf except lp12

What about a comparison (new) Mana vs Fraim?

Post by **lejonklou** » 2022-09-21 14:26

And Harmonihyllan!

Offerdal · Post by **Offerdal** » 2022-09-22 11:41

New one
I 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zhab58ha2zpsr ... 1.mov?dl=0

I 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8gpqw4zfh9fed ... 2.mov?dl=0

J 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gxgwf595u3m8 ... 1.mov?dl=0

J 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m5gn2fy3n8evl ... 2.mov?dl=0

springwood64 · Post by **springwood64** » 2022-09-22 13:06

Offerdal wrote: ↑2022-09-22 11:41 New one
I 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zhab58ha2zpsr ... 1.mov?dl=0

I 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8gpqw4zfh9fed ... 2.mov?dl=0

J 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gxgwf595u3m8 ... 1.mov?dl=0

J 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m5gn2fy3n8evl ... 2.mov?dl=0

Too hard for me - no preference (played from browser on my desktop)

springwood64 · Post by **springwood64** » 2022-09-22 13:49

springwood64 wrote: ↑2022-09-22 13:06
Offerdal wrote: ↑2022-09-22 11:41 New one
I 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zhab58ha2zpsr ... 1.mov?dl=0

I 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8gpqw4zfh9fed ... 2.mov?dl=0

J 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gxgwf595u3m8 ... 1.mov?dl=0

J 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m5gn2fy3n8evl ... 2.mov?dl=0
Too hard for me - no preference (played from browser on my desktop)

Tried again by downloading the videos and listening on Hakai. They are pretty close and equally enjoyable but if pressed to express a preference I thought J was marginally more engaging than I

beck · Post by **beck** » 2022-09-22 14:26

I prefer J1 and J2.

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2022-09-22 15:10

Pluses & minuses largely cancel each other out so it feels more a choice between presentations rather than musicality but, for me, J sounds a bit too metronomic with an over emphasis on percussion - maybe more 'live', but less human... Elements in J have more insight or engagement, but it's lacks... something - it's like notes start & stop too sharply for the music as a whole to develop. The I clips didn't make elements as clear, but that was to the overall benefit of the music, for me - just sounded more natural such that I didn't notice or could ignore the faults of I whereas the deficiencies of J made themselves more apparent.

TLDR; I ;)

Whatsmynaim · Post by **Whatsmynaim** » 2022-09-22 16:03

Taken as a whole I prefer "I" on both and but there's something about the singing on J1 that I like. It stands out and keeps my attention.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2022-09-22 17:17

On 1 I like I better. The bass drum and bass seem more in time with the rest of the music and move it along better and the whole piece just seems more musical. Pretty much the same on 2 with I being more musical. I noticed that the 2 version seems a bit brasher but doesn't hold together as well. This is there on 1 as well but was more obvious on 2.

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2022-09-22 18:29

In a straight shootout, I prefer the “I” clips. However, it feels like both sets of clips struggle with playing good quality bass, which I didn’t notice on the last Naim Fraim clip.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2022-09-23 08:07

For the first clip I preferred J1. On the second clip it was very close but sided with J2 in the end.

We seem to have some weird clip connection Offerdal. That's the second time one of us has recorded the same track at the same time. Spooky!

Offerdal · Post by **Offerdal** » 2022-09-24 10:21

Some mixed thoughts about that last one. I understand What you all hearing. Its difficult with tunedem when one setup have ”nicer” sound like J in this last setup but all that matters for me is musicality-tunedem.
Thanks for all your thoughts

I= Brand new (about 30 year old)Audiotech table

J= Harmonihyllan, 3 levels Tor Birch under and the LP12 on top on Mimer K

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2022-09-24 15:19

Well, I didn’t expect that! It’s the first time I’ve heard a Harmonihyllan comparison, and tbh, I expected to hear a much bigger difference. Listening to the clips again, I’ve gone from slightly preferring the Audiotech to now being not sure, such is the power of suggestion! So, thank you for the blind clips Offerdal. A Harmonihyllan vs full Naim Fraim comparison is surely getting closer! And, while you’re at it, a standard Lack and one with the lower board removed. I remember Naim recommending removing the lower board and infill and damping the board with a length of foam pipe insulation wedged between the board and the floor.

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2022-09-24 16:47

Offerdal wrote: ↑2022-09-24 10:21 J= Harmonihyllan, 3 levels Tor Birch under and the LP12 on top on Mimer K

Just for clarification, the Harmonihyllan just had the LP12 on the Mimer K top shelf; nothing on the other levels? As I understand it, you're just changing the support for your LP12, with the rest of your system unchanged, on separate supports, correct?

Offerdal · Post by **Offerdal** » 2022-09-24 17:52

No, the two harmonihyllan I got have all the other equipment on it. The Radikal have changed between two different shelf beqause of practikal reasons. But that doesnt matter when to deside between the two clips thats evaluated. All other stuff remain unchanged.
I will not have a 4 level Harmonihyllan without other stuff in it so its not a planned test. I got a couple more shelf to test.
But isnt the different in support very big, maybe as expected but still.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2022-09-24 18:12

Spannko wrote: ↑2022-09-24 15:19 And, while you’re at it, a standard Lack and one with the lower board removed. I remember Naim recommending removing the lower board and infill and damping the board with a length of foam pipe insulation wedged between the board and the floor.

If Offerdal has a Trampolin then best to leave the innards in place. My dealer said that the give in the Lack interfers with the trampolin, although this was without the naim foam approach.

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2022-09-24 18:37

Offerdal wrote: ↑2022-09-24 17:52 No, the two harmonihyllan I got have all the other equipment on it...
But isnt the different in support very big, maybe as expected but still.

So this is LP12 on Audiotech vs on Mimer K, with rest of the system on 3-stage Harmoni racks... And when it was Fraim vs Fraim Lite, that was just for the LP12, again with the rest of the system on your Harmoni racks. Effectively only the LP12 is moving between clips.

Curiously, for me, the latest differences were more in the timing, which I heard as impacting the musicality, asking me to choose between what I perceived as understanding the overall performance or engagement in the individual elements... It's great to have options available that result in discernible differences to fine tune to your liking; I'm just not sure if the results would be musically true in all systems, or whether the differences apply primarily in the context of your system, enhancing or tempering characteristics of your system that we, individually, prefer or otherwise.

Thanks for sharing all the clips & comparisons - they're certainly food for thought since I've been considering upgrading my system racks for a while...

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2022-09-24 18:43

Charlie1 wrote: ↑2022-09-24 18:12
Spannko wrote: ↑2022-09-24 15:19 And, while you’re at it, a standard Lack and one with the lower board removed. I remember Naim recommending removing the lower board and infill and damping the board with a length of foam pipe insulation wedged between the board and the floor.
If Offerdal has a Trampolin then best to leave the innards in place. My dealer said that the give in the Lack interfers with the trampolin, although this was without the naim foam approach.

Good point. Three suspensions might start to get a bit chaotic!

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2022-09-24 19:15

Spannko wrote: ↑2022-09-24 18:43 .. Three suspensions might start to get a bit chaotic!

Ooo, the suspense :)

Offerdal · Post by **Offerdal** » 2022-09-25 08:35

Yes only LP12 moving around. No trampolin. Took the trampolinfeet off the urika and use standard solid base feet.
New one

K 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ou0g1wtem0bk2 ... 1.mov?dl=0

K 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xbnfpe1w0ob4h ... 2.mov?dl=0

L 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/272w41f3rm3f4 ... 1.mov?dl=0

L 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/00tpf3h7eu04d ... 2.mov?dl=0

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2022-09-25 09:48

Can't pick up on anything in particular but I defo get into the music more with L. I'm kept at a slight distance from the music with K.

Not really heard Kabers before but I like them. What amps are you using with them?

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2022-09-25 12:09

I found this one a bit easier and have a preference for the L clips

Playground for practical listening exercises

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