Linn Kan 1 Setup

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Charlie1
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Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Charlie1 »

I recently modified the speaker connectors to enable me to move my Kan 1s (on Kan 2 stands) back another 15mm so that the cabinets are now 5cm from the rear wall. I've compared my Kan 1s to a few others and they do have a peaky upper mid that Kan 2s and other Kan 1s didn't have (I've always hung onto mine cos they are the most engaging despite this weakness.) However, since moving them back most of this peakiness has gone.

1.) Is it worth trying to get them even further against the rear wall? I would need to use Naim right angle connectors but more disruptively, I'd need to get some skirting board removed.

2.) Another tweak would be to remove the carpet gripper board that the rear spikes are now dug into. Perhaps that would also further improve things. It's a suspended wooden floor.

3.) Lastly, I expected to get more bass from this shift back 15mm but really couldn't hear any difference in that area. Why is that do you think? It's a thick solid wall behind.
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by lejonklou »

Your post brought up memories of my own attempts at installing Kan’s optimally, Charlie. In particular the fight for the last millimetre and how little I valued skirting boards.

My thoughts are:

1. I remember the optimal distance from the rear wall was always around 5 cm. Maybe a few mm less in some rooms, but don’t recall them ever sounding better at less than 4 cm. And certainly never toed in. That peaky upper mid pair is an early pair, right?

2. I don’t know what this is (we don’t have carpets here), but the floor material below the rear spikes matters.

3. Think of the wavelengths that are reflected off the rear wall and added to the direct sound at various distances. The closer the speaker gets to the rear wall, the higher in frequency the “rear wall bass boost” will reach. So when you gradually move the speaker from far away to close against the wall, you will first get a boost in the bass, then also the upper bass, then also the lower mid, then also the upper mid.
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Charlie1 »

Great - thanks Fredrik! Very helpful.

The rear wall is not very flat so I can't be precise about the rear distance but that doesn't stop me experimenting of course.

Gripper board is something you nail to around the perimeter of your wooden floor, leaving a few mm between it and the skirting board. It has very sharp upward facing nails that grip the carpet so it can be stretched tight and the end of the carpet tucked under the skirting board. Normally, the skirting board is fitted a bit higher than shown in this photo and the carpet tucks under the skirting.
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by ThomasOK »

How intense do you want to get with your Kan 1s?

The KEF B110 had a reputation for peakiness in the upper midband. Linn did something that removed this and improved power handling. It is quite possible that your pair don't have that modification that later Kans do hence their lack of the problem. But you would have to pull the drivers out of the cabinets to perform the mod (although you can leave them soldered to the leads) and it is not easily reversible. What Linn did, and I have done on some units, is to take a soldering iron with a pointy tip, heat it up and melt four small holes 90° apart in the cone between the dust cap and the voice coil former. This ventilates the voice coil giving more power handling (possibly also improving the bass but I'm not sure of that). But the bigger benefit is that it was felt to be the air trapped behind the dust cap that causes the upper midrange resonances and ventilating that area reduces or removes them. It is not that difficult to do if you have a steady hand - once you get the drivers out of the cabinet. But, of course, that is always the difficulty in doing anything with Kan drivers. And then there is the question of whether you will find them better or not afterwards.
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks Tom although I don't fancy that at all. I've compared a couple of other late Kan 1s and they did sound distinctly more neutral - I should have made a note of the serial numbers.

Have you (or anyone else) ever tried putting screws into the floor and then sitting the spikes in the screw heads?
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Tendaberry »

Charlie1 wrote: 2022-05-25 07:03 Have you (or anyone else) ever tried putting screws into the floor and then sitting the spikes in the screw heads?
That's something the Linn importer and owner of the shop in Stockholm recommended back in the 1980's. I've only heard it with Saras and it sounded really good. He even did it on parquet floors (if the owner allowed it).
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks Tendaberry!
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by ThomasOK »

Tendaberry wrote: 2022-05-25 10:00
Charlie1 wrote: 2022-05-25 07:03 Have you (or anyone else) ever tried putting screws into the floor and then sitting the spikes in the screw heads?
That's something the Linn importer and owner of the shop in Stockholm recommended back in the 1980's. I've only heard it with Saras and it sounded really good. He even did it on parquet floors (if the owner allowed it).
It was something commonly recommended in the US as well. I had my Isobariks setup up that way once. I never did a conclusive tune-method comparison to decide whether it was better or not. In our original store we put allen head screws into the floor for various of the speakers as it allowed us to just drop the speakers in the right set of screw heads and know they would be properly placed. I came up with a system to color code them so we could more easily find which set of screws to use for each speaker. We no longer use it as 1) there ended up being a lot of screws which made it a pain to move the speakers around 2) speakers change too often so the screws had to be changed often as well.

I'm not sure it is the best bet for a couple of reasons. One is that you have to get the spikes adjusted just right so that they are solidly in contact with the screw heads or it will impact the sound. The other is that I'm not sue it is a good idea for the spikes to be sitting on something on the point of their tips. I note that a spike sinks a bit into a wood floor and that the Skeets have the tip in a small hole so not actually contacting the very point of the tip. In my experience other devices like the Skeets that have the spike contacting it on the point are not as musical as the Skeets are.

I do think that having the rear spikes on the tack strip (gripper board to you) is not a good idea.
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks Tom!

Gripper board removal next :) I've just take out a short 1 inch long piece for each spike
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by tpetsch »

Charlie1 wrote: 2022-05-25 17:41 Thanks Tom!

Gripper board removal next :) I've just take out a short 1 inch long piece for each spike
I have also owned Kan I's & II's, and in my experience they just lack any serious bass for the most part, but they are a wonderful speaker as you're demonstrating, and I still own a pair of II's driven by a Kairn/Klout FWIW. Your approach is right to get them as close to the rear wall as possible. coupling the stands to the floor in the ways mentioned above is also the right move as this will be more musical, but this solid floor coupling generally tightens up the bass, makes it less muddy -more InTune- and in turn may give the impression of even less bass. At the shop we also used Philips screw heads so that we can repeatedly place stands securely in the same spot, but over the years wobbly floorboards and loose screws -resulting from a lot of activity- were always an ongoing issue anyway, best is if you have a cement foundation floor with the adjusted spikes 'Placed" upon it as I'm lucky enough to have my DMS on.

Room dimensions also play a factor, the further you sit away you from your Kans the better the bass wave form can develop in the lower frequency's, also -in turn- the closer your chair gets to the back wall the more bass you will perceive too, but that can present it's own room specific issues.

I also decided to ditch the floorstanding Kan stands and use Sound org wall shelves for mine and mount them so that the tweeter is several inches above my ears when seated, I sit below the tweeter slightly, this can also gives the impression of fuller bass, and again results are also somewhat room dependent. Best to test different heights before permanently mounting.

I also use Naim angled speaker plugs in my DMS and Kans to get the speakers close to the wall without touching, their a little snug fitting as the spacing isn't perfect but extremely close and with slight modification/elongation to the plastic body holes makes them fit perfectly, no need to modify the Deltron type connectors themselves.
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks tpetsch - very helpful and few things to mull over in your post
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Spannko »

Just take the naim plugs out of the casing and use them like right angled Deltron’s
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by tpetsch »

Spannko wrote: 2022-05-26 08:25 Just take the naim plugs out of the casing and use them like right angled Deltron’s
Then why not just use right angled Deltrons? why pay the extra -and it is/was a lot extra- for the Naims?

It's very -very- easy to mod them -elongate the 2 holes slightly sideways -I've done this dozens of times- and still retain the very nice casings Naims Deltron like connectors are supplied with, gives it a completed finished look, locks in the (+) & (-) positions as well as protects against shorting.
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Spannko »

There’s a very good reason for not using a 90 degree deltron instead of the naim plugs. They don’t actually make one!
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by lejonklou »

Just solder Deltron 550 at a 90 degree angle against the cable. Works fine.
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by tpetsch »

Sorry, I was under the mistaken impression that Charlie already owned the Naim connectors, so I thought why invest in more?

But the Naims are/were a very nice connector, not sure they're even made any more, I always liked using them.

BTW: We used the term Deltron to describe all the 4mm plugs, kinda a generic term like Coke and Q-Tips.
We had Deltrons, "Super" Deltrons and the Naims. Right angles 4mm Deltron type connectors do exist but they are not made by "Deltron", although we always just did what Lejonklou described above -finished with shrinkwrap- if we didn't use the Naims..
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Lego »

Charlie1 wrote: 2022-05-25 07:03 Thanks Tom although I don't fancy that at all. I've compared a couple of other late Kan 1s and they did sound distinctly more neutral - I should have made a note of the serial numbers.

Have you (or anyone else) ever tried putting screws into the floor and then sitting the spikes in the screw heads?
Yes I did this with Kan2s in 80s if I remember correctly there was a distracting bass vibration flowing through the floorboards towards my feet .Not great .But boy were the speakers level and solid .Sounded fine but for me wasn't worth the hassle.Didnt go as far as the recommended screwing strips of short planks perpendicular to floorboards before screwing the screws in.
Last edited by Lego on 2022-06-03 00:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Charlie1 »

Tx Lego!
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Charlie1 »

I removed small sections to allow the rear spikes to make direct contact with the floor boards.

Before:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nmvrdhji7gqe8 ... 3.mp4?dl=0

After:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x6r0ta4ykh7l8 ... 8.mp4?dl=0
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by tpetsch »

Charlie1 wrote: 2022-06-06 14:33 I removed small sections to allow the rear spikes to make direct contact with the floor boards.

Before:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nmvrdhji7gqe8 ... 3.mp4?dl=0

After:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x6r0ta4ykh7l8 ... 8.mp4?dl=0
I can hear some sort of technical difficulty on the "Before" clip at about the 4 Sec. mark that changes the tone of the music to the negative making things difficult to properly evaluate Charlie, otherwise sounding very nice though.
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by tokenbrit »

Charlie1 wrote: 2022-06-06 14:33 I removed small sections to allow the rear spikes to make direct contact with the floor boards.

Before:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nmvrdhji7gqe8 ... 3.mp4?dl=0

After:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x6r0ta4ykh7l8 ... 8.mp4?dl=0
It's a stretch to say that After wipes the floor with Before... Ironically After is more gripping musically; pulls the rug from under the feet of Before in a let-loose kinda way - carpet diem :)

(I imagine markiteight would be proud ;)
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Charlie1 »

tpetsch wrote: I can hear some sort of technical difficulty on the "Before" clip at about the 4 Sec. mark that changes the tone of the music to the negative making things difficult to properly evaluate Charlie, otherwise sounding very nice though.
I think it was just my finger near the lefthand mic but I moved it out the way after.
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Charlie1 »

tokenbrit wrote: 2022-06-06 17:25 pulls the rug from under the feet of Before in a let-loose kinda way - carpet diem :)
Very good :D

And thanks Fredrik for the steer!!
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by tpetsch »

Charlie1 wrote: 2022-06-06 19:14
tpetsch wrote: I can hear some sort of technical difficulty on the "Before" clip at about the 4 Sec. mark that changes the tone of the music to the negative making things difficult to properly evaluate Charlie, otherwise sounding very nice though.
I think it was just my finger near the lefthand mic but I moved it out the way after.
But my point is the performance definitely sounds different before the 4 second mark and then after, like the devise you were recording with digitally recalibrated something internally. ...But besides that issue I think that's some of the best I have ever heard Kans, you're really seem to be making/getting the best of them. IMO.
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Re: Linn Kan 1 Setup

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks tpetsch!
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