JBL 308P and 708P

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FairPlayMotty
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by FairPlayMotty »

They're giving me the feeling of younger ears :)

Fantastic to get this degree of upgrade in my fifties.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Discodave »

I always thought you were in your 20s!!
😀
LP12, Lingo 3, Cirkus/Kore, Tramp 2, Basik Plus Ania, Linto
Majik Ds, Kisto, Tundra 2.0, Majik 109
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Discodave wrote: 2021-12-06 07:34 I always thought you were in your 20s!!
😀
Lmao!
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Defender »

FairPlayMotty wrote: 2021-12-06 01:41 They're giving me the feeling of younger ears :)

Fantastic to get this degree of upgrade in my fifties.
FairPlayMotty what is your complete chain (source if LP12 what configuration) and pre amp please?
On which stands do you have the 308‘s
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Defender wrote: 2021-12-06 09:29
FairPlayMotty wrote: 2021-12-06 01:41 They're giving me the feeling of younger ears :)

Fantastic to get this degree of upgrade in my fifties.
FairPlayMotty what is your complete chain (source if LP12 what configuration) and pre amp please?
On which stands do you have the 308‘s
Home made streamer, Linn Kolektor, Rega Planar 9. The turntable is rarely used.

One thing I've discovered with the JBL 308P is that the DAC used with the streamer (I have the Gigaport HD+ plus two Chinese DACs which I prefer) does make a difference despite the ADC/DAC in the JBLs.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Defender »

yes thats what I would expect too - the Chinease DAC‘s are from Audio GD?
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Defender wrote: 2021-12-06 09:56 yes thats what I would expect too - the Chinease DAC‘s are from Audio GD?
Well I actually have four in total, one as yet unused which uses a TDA1541A chip. Three from China via eBay and Aliexpress.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Tom Evans phono stage and a Grado MC cartridge.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Azazello »

Lego wrote: 2021-12-06 01:08
Azazello wrote: 2021-12-05 14:16
Discodave wrote: 2021-12-05 11:55 Can you describe the improvements while listening to music? Ta
The smile on my face is back.
Do they remind you of an early 90s lp12 ,a bit like hearing the album for the first time,or more like replicating the highest enjoyment period !?
The source (see what I did there?) of all of those feelings in my system is clearly Källa. The 308's are better than 3677 but not in all ways and not fundamentally like that. Any speaker that is not "bad" would sound amazing with Källa -> Sagatun.

If they were the same price and size and I could easily choose between TM/3677 and 308 I'd honestly don't know.

And to your point: It's the best system I have ever heard. Beats any LP12 I've ever listened to by a mile.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by jajo »

FairPlayMotty wrote: 2021-12-06 09:42 One thing I've discovered with the JBL 308P is that the DAC used with the streamer (I have the Gigaport HD+ plus two Chinese DACs which I prefer) does make a difference despite the ADC/DAC in the JBLs.
It is a common misconception that just because parts of the signal chain contain ADC, then the entire signal chain can be considered "digital" and hide analogue differences on the way. It does not work like that. In fact, a properly designed ADC->DAC->ADC-chain will have zero effect on musicality and behave just as if it would be analogue all the way.

It is not so much about which technology is used to transfer music, it is the design and implementation that matters for the end result.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Spannko »

Can I just check where people feel the 308’s fit on the spectrum of amplifier/speaker combinations? Are they just excellent value for money or are they something which someone might exchange their mono Lejonklou amps and Klangedang’s for? How about Boazu and 109’s? or Nait 1 and Kans? For around €300 there’s not much musical HiFi available, but what about Creek 4040 and Royd Coniston’s for about €150?
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Defender »

jajo wrote: 2021-12-04 16:57
Azazello wrote: 2021-12-04 15:32
jajo wrote: 2021-12-04 14:01 For the same reason I use 708P and I doubt that I would be much happier with a fully loaded 4675C system in my normal sized living room.
The thing I miss from 3677/TM is the physical feeling of someone playing an instrument. The 308’s just don’t give me that at all. Would you say that 708 will bring that back?
708P is closer to the "live" feeling of 3677 and other JBL Pro Cinema-speakers thanks to the better drivers and having a real compression driver and horn (that is almost as big as the one in 3677).

However the 15" bass driver in 3677 sounds very different. It has less low bass extension but a much more powerful midbass with more "slam" and "attack". This undoubtedly gives more live feeling. I think perhaps this is what you are missing when you are listening to 308P.

But overall 708P is a better and more musical speaker than 3677 with a more pleasant sound in midrange/treble (3677 can sound a bit harsh in the lower range of the horn). 708P can play incredibly loud (308P cannot) so it could perhaps be worth a try. But from what I am reading, I believe you need 15" bass drivers and a real CF-driver+horn to be happy. 708P will only give you half of that.
@Spannko: Jajo said in that post what the 308 and the 708 dont do which is something I would miss for sure.
You probably not because you was obviously happy with your loudspeakers.
But when you concentrate on the front end with a Sagatun Stereo or Mono or Giella (in case you only have one source) you keep yourself every option open. You can try 308 first and than decide if you need amps and passive loudspeakers or happy with going active.
What I am trying to say is make your front end non compromise the rest you can decide on the way.
In my case I would not give up Tundra and Floorspeakers for the 308.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by jajo »

Spannko wrote: 2021-12-06 16:04 Can I just check where people feel the 308’s fit on the spectrum of amplifier/speaker combinations? Are they just excellent value for money or are they something which someone might exchange their mono Lejonklou amps and Klangedang’s for? How about Boazu and 109’s? or Nait 1 and Kans? For around €300 there’s not much musical HiFi available, but what about Creek 4040 and Royd Coniston’s for about €150?
I have touched the issue before. I then claimed that 308 performs on a musical level that beats everything else except 708P and possibly some models of JBL Pro Cinema.

Since then, I have listened a lot to Klångedang+Tundra Mono+Giella Pi+Källa in Fredrik's lab and it surely has fantastic qualities. I think when setup optimally, the 308P can perform very close to the Klångedang system musically, but not all the way. Sound wise, the 308P sounds a lot "more" than Klångedang that struggles quite a lot, especially when playing loud. Value for money with 308P is incredible and their strengths are where they matter the most.

708P is quite a lot more musical than 308P and although I haven't made any scientific comparisons, my gut feeling is that they are better than any other consumer playback system I have heard (speaker+amp combo). They do need a good preamp though. I am looking forward to getting a pair of Sagatun Monos to replace my Kikkin.

But like Azazello has already written - in the end everything that matters is the source. I wouldn't bother with anything better than 308P unless I had a Källa or decently spec'ed and properly setup LP12. I have zero doubts that 308P + Kikkin + Källa beats any other Hifi system regardless of price.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Spannko »

Thanks jajo. The reason I ask is because I’ve recently bought a pair of 308’s and they don’t have the musicality you describe. The system consists of KDS/1 + Linn Silver + original Majik pre-amp section + Linn Silver + no name phono to xlr adapter. I appreciate that the phono to xlr adapter will have an affect on the overall performance, but the musicality is so poor I’m reluctant to chop up a decent pair of cables to solder on an xlr.

The bass is pretty good. It’s very nicely pitched and the sound quality isn’t too bad either. However, the mids are quite poorly pitched and time wise they’re happy to play on their own! The net result is pretty boring to listen to tbh, exactly the opposite of what you’re finding!

I’ll try them again when I get a decent source + pre-amp!
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

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Spannko wrote: 2021-12-06 18:26 Thanks jajo. The reason I ask is because I’ve recently bought a pair of 308’s and they don’t have the musicality you describe. The system consists of KDS/1 + Linn Silver + original Majik pre-amp section + Linn Silver + no name phono to xlr adapter. I appreciate that the phono to xlr adapter will have an affect on the overall performance, but the musicality is so poor I’m reluctant to chop up a decent pair of cables to solder on an xlr.

The bass is pretty good. It’s very nicely pitched and the sound quality isn’t too bad either. However, the mids are quite poorly pitched and time wise they’re happy to play on their own! The net result is pretty boring to listen to tbh, exactly the opposite of what you’re finding!

I’ll try them again when I get a decent source + pre-amp!
What stands are you using?

Have you installed them carefully?

Are they new or fully burned in?
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Azazello »

Spannko wrote: 2021-12-06 18:26 Thanks jajo. The reason I ask is because I’ve recently bought a pair of 308’s and they don’t have the musicality you describe. The system consists of KDS/1 + Linn Silver + original Majik pre-amp section + Linn Silver + no name phono to xlr adapter. I appreciate that the phono to xlr adapter will have an affect on the overall performance, but the musicality is so poor I’m reluctant to chop up a decent pair of cables to solder on an xlr.

The bass is pretty good. It’s very nicely pitched and the sound quality isn’t too bad either. However, the mids are quite poorly pitched and time wise they’re happy to play on their own! The net result is pretty boring to listen to tbh, exactly the opposite of what you’re finding!

I’ll try them again when I get a decent source + pre-amp!
Burn-in. Let them play a lot, and loudly. Took me several weeks, and I got mine second hand! I guess it’s the kind of speaker people sometimes put on a desk and only listen at close distance.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

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FairPlayMotty wrote: 2021-11-27 05:08
jajo wrote: 2021-11-23 00:34
FairPlayMotty wrote: 2021-11-22 18:52 Have you ever heard Kali LP 8 or Kali LP 6 Jajo? I'm interested in them purely they're a breakaway from JBL and seem to be going after the same market as the JBL 3 series.
Unfortunately no.
I'll trial the Kali second wave soon via Amazon sale or return (free)...
LP-8 &/or IN-8?
8-)
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Gave up on that idea. I can't look past the "proven" JBLs.

The implementation of the ADC/DAC/DSP is impeccable. Sprinkle is using the same ADC chip and a slightly different model of ST chip in the Kali. I guess he knew what didn't need to be changed.

My streamer DAC experiments were to ascertain if changing the DAC made any difference. With my my three DACs it made a very small difference, too small to call either in the room or in the clips.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by jajo »

FairPlayMotty wrote: 2021-12-06 19:20 My streamer DAC experiments were to ascertain if changing the DAC made any difference. With my my three DACs it made a very small difference, too small to call either in the room or in the clips.
The chinese DACs must be good!
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by FairPlayMotty »

They are! One uses ADC chips, the other TDAs. Both are R2R designs. The TDA one doesn't perform close to its best until it's warm (actively in use for 45 minutes).
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Spannko »

jajo & Azazello,

I’m not using “traditional” stands. They consist of an open metal frame with a couple of 75mm timbers on top to raise the height to 500mm! 😳 🤣 Regardless of the construction, they seem to work very well with Graham LS5/9’s, producing a tuneful, harmonious and rhythmic sound, but admittedly, I accept that they may not be a good match with the 308’s,

Careful installation? Not really, tbh. But then again, the 5/9’s aren’t installed mm perfect either.

Fully run in? I’m not sure. They’re used, but I don’t know how much use they’ve had. Maybe more use will help?
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Azazello »

Spannko wrote: 2021-12-06 21:07 jajo & Azazello,

I’m not using “traditional” stands. They consist of an open metal frame with a couple of 75mm timbers on top to raise the height to 500mm! 😳 🤣 Regardless of the construction, they seem to work very well with Graham LS5/9’s, producing a tuneful, harmonious and rhythmic sound, but admittedly, I accept that they may not be a good match with the 308’s,

Careful installation? Not really, tbh. But then again, the 5/9’s aren’t installed mm perfect either.

Fully run in? I’m not sure. They’re used, but I don’t know how much use they’ve had. Maybe more use will help?
It will help. Give them time.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Lego »

Spannko wrote: 2021-12-06 21:07 jajo & Azazello,

I’m not using “traditional” stands. They consist of an open metal frame with a couple of 75mm timbers on top to raise the height to 500mm! 😳 🤣 Regardless of the construction, they seem to work very well with Graham LS5/9’s, producing a tuneful, harmonious and rhythmic sound, but admittedly, I accept that they may not be a good match with the 308’s,

Careful installation? Not really, tbh. But then again, the 5/9’s aren’t installed mm perfect either.

Fully run in? I’m not sure. They’re used, but I don’t know how much use they’ve had. Maybe more use will help?
Have you got the JBLs plugged into the same distribution block?Don't worry Spannko you will eventually 'get it'.If you don't feel like putting them on ,there's something seriously wrong with them.
I know that tune
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Spannko wrote: 2021-12-06 21:07 jajo & Azazello,

I’m not using “traditional” stands. They consist of an open metal frame with a couple of 75mm timbers on top to raise the height to 500mm! 😳 🤣 Regardless of the construction, they seem to work very well with Graham LS5/9’s, producing a tuneful, harmonious and rhythmic sound, but admittedly, I accept that they may not be a good match with the 308’s,

Careful installation? Not really, tbh. But then again, the 5/9’s aren’t installed mm perfect either.

Fully run in? I’m not sure. They’re used, but I don’t know how much use they’ve had. Maybe more use will help?
Dedicated cables will help.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by jajo »

Spannko wrote: 2021-12-06 21:07 jajo & Azazello,

I’m not using “traditional” stands. They consist of an open metal frame with a couple of 75mm timbers on top to raise the height to 500mm! 😳 🤣 Regardless of the construction, they seem to work very well with Graham LS5/9’s, producing a tuneful, harmonious and rhythmic sound, but admittedly, I accept that they may not be a good match with the 308’s,

Careful installation? Not really, tbh. But then again, the 5/9’s aren’t installed mm perfect either.

Fully run in? I’m not sure. They’re used, but I don’t know how much use they’ve had. Maybe more use will help?
Start by just playing on them for some time (at least one week). Avoid unplugging them from the mains as it will be very bad for the performance.

If you still don't get good results, it is possible that they are defective.

308P/708P are very sensitive to installation. I had one screw in my Kan-stands that was loose and that caused the whole system to sound "dead". The key to unlocking the potential of these speakers is careful installation.
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