Playground for practical listening exercises

[beck]

I do prefer A but B is a very good try doing it digital style (my guess).

[tpetsch]

A for me too, and I agree, these sound like two different sources.

[matthias]

At B there is no tonearm upon the LP, so I assume:

A: LP12
B: Källa

???

Matt

[tokenbrit]

At B there is no tonearm upon the LP, so I assume:

A: LP12
B: Källa

???

Matt

I saw & assumed the same, but that was after I'd listened... What's your opinion of the clips & comparison? ;)

[Pedro]

I prefer B.
The song is about unrequited love. The man is at the mercy of his beloved. His suffering (wailing tone) is heard more vividly in the B version.

[matthias]

I saw & assumed the same, but that was after I'd listened... What's your opinion of the clips & comparison? ;)

The more I listen the more I prefer B.

Matt

[ThomasOK]

You guys have sussed out the proper order.

A Klimax LP12
B Källa 005

I realized later I should have left the arm over the record but cued up to make it harder to guess.

As I mentioned this is not a true like for like comparison for a few reasons. One is that the LP12 is plugged into the direct input and the Källa is into input one. Another is that I was using my 2019 iPad as the control and I don't know where it falls on the list. Most importantly they are likely to be two different masterings. Wicked Game originally came out on Chris Isaak's album Heart Shaped World. Unfortunately they apparently didn't press many as they often go for $150 or $200 online. I like the album but not enough to pay that much for it. But before I started seriously looking for the album I found and bought the album Wicked Game thinking I was getting the right album. I found out that after the song Wicked Game was featured in a David Lynch film it made it into the top 10. So his record label decided to capitalize on the success by making a compilation of his first three albums under that title. I was glad to have Wicked Game on vinyl, as well as the other songs but did want an original when I found what I had bought. I just haven't wanted to put out that kind of money.

When I sat down to do the clips I recorded the album track first after having played another couple records to warm the LP12/SINGularities up. The Källa had been running 24/7 for about a week so was fully warmed up. But when I went to Spotify to find the same album I found they only had the original Heart Shaped World album, not the compilation. So it is likely these are from different masters and the vinyl masters are certainly different. I did notice in the room, and I hear it on the clips, that the one on Spotify has a brighter and more forward top end which I think indicates the different mastering.

But again, the point was not really a direct A/B under identical conditions, which I will try to do later, but to show what a fine music making machine the Källa is. That it can be compared with a fully loaded LP12, short the new pieces, (and one of the best of those at that) and found to be on a pretty equal footing says everything that needs to be said right now.

Källa 011 just arrived Monday and I plugged it in today. It will be my permanent Källa in my system. Now that it is here and 005 is fully burned in it will be going to dealers to audition. It will be a while before I have everything nailed down to do another set of clips like this as it has to burn in and other things are going on in my system, but my iPad Mini just arrived today so I will have a top level controller next time.

Pretty amazing, isn't it?!

[Spannko]

To me, the Källa makes the LP12 sound fragmented.

[beck]

As Thomas mentioned this is not a proper comparison. It gives us a good hint at what the Källa can do.

One of the things I notice is that the first bended note from the guitar has a wider pitch range on the Sondek clip. The Källa clip squeeze it more together.

[El Mero Mero]

Let's try these:

A) https://www.dropbox.com/s/dijjxvgs3927t ... M.mov?dl=0

B) https://www.dropbox.com/s/a2zl5d6hgh78u ... M.mov?dl=0

This is not an exacting comparison and has a technical flaw or two. It is posted here more to see how interesting people find it and to generate some discussion. Have fun.

I have a hard time listening to the B track. The compression of the snare drum and loss of information in the bass notes is indeed "haunting",

[V.A.MKD]

Whatever "is" and whatever is "written" is just Compliment to KALLA! From now on with big letters.

[Tendaberry]

I didn't care much for B, until I heard the vocals. Even though substantial information in the bass and drums was missing, Chris's voice just grabbed me instantly.
The collection Wicked Game is only available on vinyl in various European and a South African pressing, so Tom doesn't even have the best version. Yet Wicked Game isn't a remastered version, nor does there seem to exist a remastered version of Heart Shaped World, not even on CD. I'm fortunate enough to have the US original lp of Heart Shaped World, which is noticeably better than the German pressing, that I had before.

[matthias]

For comparisons between LP12 and Källa I would choose albums from ECM records.
AFAIK, they use the same sources for their analog and digital productions and both sound to my ears very good.

Matt

[V.A.MKD]

I didn't care much for B, until I heard the vocals. Even though substantial information in the bass and drums was missing, Chris's voice just grabbed me instantly.

+1 = It's not possible KALLA to be better on vocal (the most sensitive instrument, expressing emotions) and not so good on drums, bass or ... The difference is probably in different recording as Thom mentioned ...

[V.A.MKD]

For comparisons between LP12 and Källa I would choose albums from ECM records.
AFAIK, they use the same sources for their analog and digital productions and both sound to my ears very good.

Matt

+1, one of the best productions ...

[Scooter62]

To me, the Källa makes the LP12 sound fragmented.

Spannko, this is a great observation!

[John]

I prefer A and found the music flowed much better.

[Spannko]

For comparisons between LP12 and Källa I would choose albums from ECM records.
AFAIK, they use the same sources for their analog and digital productions and both sound to my ears very good.

Matt

I agree, the ecm recordings are wonderful. Fortunately, David Neel is an ecm aficionado and I’m sure he could recommend some great albums which are available on both CD/download and vinyl (not all of them are).

[matthias]

Fortunately, David Neel is an ecm aficionado and I’m sure he could recommend some great albums which are available on both CD/download and vinyl (not all of them are).

+1

Matt

[ThomasOK]

ECM sounds like a good idea. I didn't know they did digital from the same masters but that is a plus. In the late 70s I owned over 80% of the ECM catalog and still own all those. I slowed down purchases when they went to digital mastering. So I'm sure I can find something(s) suitable. I have one track in mind that might not be everyone's cup of tea but that I used to play a lot to demonstrate the value of tuneful products. I'll give it a shot when everything is back together.

[David Neel]

Yes, I believe ECM vinyl and CD/downloads come from the same masters. In the time of my ADS/3, vinyl was distinctly preferable to me. Among my recent ECM vinyl: Bayou by Thomas Stronen et al, Entendre by Nik Bartsch, Live by Marcin Wasilewski Trio, Garden of Expression by Joe Lovano. All would make interesting comparisons. Older albums, perhaps Blue Maqams by Anouar Brahem, and In Praise of Dreams by Jan Garbarek.

[Spannko]

I’ve just come across this interview with an ECM engineer. I found it interesting that accurate tuning of instruments is fundamental to the ECM sound, however, even more important is the quality of an instrument and it’s ability to be pitch accurate when tuned and to remain in tune over time. Pitch accuracy is so important to them that they often tune a piano twice a day!

https://tapeop.com/interviews/91/jan-erik-kongshaug/

[matthias]

I’ve just come across this interview with an ECM engineer. I found it interesting that accurate tuning of instruments is fundamental to the ECM sound, however, even more important is the quality of an instrument and it’s ability to be pitch accurate when tuned and to remain in tune over time. Pitch accuracy is so important to them that they often tune a piano twice a day!

https://tapeop.com/interviews/91/jan-erik-kongshaug/

Interesting,
IMO, Kongshaug engineered some of the best sounding ECMs.

Matt

[V.A.MKD]

Also ... (I hope you will understand me, my English is not so good ... ) there is very specific "atmosphere" almost on all ECM and ECM New Series albums, no other brand have it ...

Manfred Eicher producer is also legend ...

[Lego]

I’ve just come across this interview with an ECM engineer. I found it interesting that accurate tuning of instruments is fundamental to the ECM sound, however, even more important is the quality of an instrument and it’s ability to be pitch accurate when tuned and to remain in tune over time. Pitch accuracy is so important to them that they often tune a piano twice a day!

https://tapeop.com/interviews/91/jan-erik-kongshaug/

If you listen to some of Thelonious Monk's solo stuff like Solo Monk ,you can hear the piano gradually going out of tune .