Troika and Naim Stageline K/S

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Allan3630
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Troika and Naim Stageline K/S

Post by Allan3630 »

Hi all,
Am looking at purchasing a Naim Stageline N/S or Linn Linto (or corresponding Phono MC in on a Linn preamplifier) to be used with a Linn Troika.

What I am wondering is why the Naim Stageline N is meant to match the Troika when it only has a gain of 60dB. The Troika is an ultra low output MC and I have heard that it requires a gain of upwards of 67dB. The Linto and other Linn phono input stages are 64dB which which is more of a match.

How do the Stageline and Troika work together? Do you have to turn the volume up to max to be able to hear anything?
Thanks for any input!
Last edited by Allan3630 on 2021-02-18 14:12, edited 1 time in total.
Allan3630
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Re: Troika and Naim Stageline N/S

Post by Allan3630 »

Sorry I meant the Stageline K!!
David Neel
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Re: Troika and Naim Stageline K/S

Post by David Neel »

Hi Allan3630,
Please tell us the complete system that you are currently using. You have several threads where you ask in isolation about different parts of the system. It would be a lot easier to help you if we knew the full story. In particular, you mention your Troika. What specification of LP12 is it on? Following the source first philosophy, you may be better advised to start there.
The search for knowledge is not nourished by certainty, but by a radical distrust in certainty
Allan3630
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Re: Troika and Naim Stageline K/S

Post by Allan3630 »

sorry about that..newbie!

I have the following:
- LP12 with cirkus, valhalla, Ittok LVII, Trampolin I, and Linn K9 (soon to be replaced by a Troika)
- Vincent phono stage (rubbish..to be replaced)
- Unidisk SC w/ Dynamik
- Klout
- K400 speaker cables
- Linn Kan II

I am looking at replacing that which is in bold. There are a number of possibilities I have considered which are for sale and within my budget:
1. Naim Stageline S/K (powered by a FlatCap)
2. Linto
3. Akurate AK/0(using it as a preamp and phono stage instead of Unidisk SC)
4. Kinos + phono stage (not sure..maybe a Rega fono MC)

Any comments appreciated.
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Re: Troika and Naim Stageline K/S

Post by David Neel »

Do you already own the Troika? It was a great cartridge, but the youngest examples are now 27 years old, and re-tipping or re-building Linn MC cartridges often destroys their musicality. I've had a factory rebuilt Klyde, which was nowhere near as good as a new one. That's why Linn stopped rebuilding cartridges... and getting a rebuild elsewhere can only be worse - again, I know from experience! If your funds are limited, stick with MM cartridges, with their cheaply replaceable styli, until and unless your LP12 is otherwise maxed-out.

My suggestion would be to add a new stylus to the K9, or replace it with an AT-VM95 https://lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4850

Then you could sell the Troika, and the rest of your available funds could be spent on a second-hand Lejonklou MM phono stage, and on improvements to your LP12, starting with the bearing and power supply. A good LP12 specialist dealer can help you here, and also check that your deck is correctly set up. There is no substitute for source first.
The search for knowledge is not nourished by certainty, but by a radical distrust in certainty
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Re: Troika and Naim Stageline K/S

Post by beck »

+1. :-)
Spannko
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Re: Troika and Naim Stageline K/S

Post by Spannko »

Hi Allan3630,

Most of us here have been on a similar journey, and I promise that you will get the most satisfaction from your system by following David Neal’s advice, which is bang on.

The Troika was a stunning cartridge, but the humble K9 in an Ekos was more musical than the Troika in an Ittok, and now we have the Lejonklou mm phono stages which take mm’s into good mc territory.

I’d suggest getting a Lingo 1 (and then having it rebuilt - it makes a big difference to a 30 year old component) at some point too. Make these changes, and you will be surprised what you can get out of a mm cartridge!
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Re: Troika and Naim Stageline K/S

Post by sktn77a »

I think the Linto would be better than the Stageline (plus flatcap).
Keith
LP12, Ekos, Argo i, HDX, 252/250.2/Stageline K, Aerial 5B, LS3/5a, HL-P3ESR
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Re: Troika and Naim Stageline K/S

Post by Cobra Dave »

I was in a similar situation.

I had LP12/Valhalla/Circus/AT-VM95/Lejonklou Gaio, and was thinking of upgrading the pickup.

But I got a Lingo 2 and the difference is bigger than and expected and could hope for.

Found a 20 year old review of the Lingo 1 here and I agree with:
Specifically, the new power supply adds an octave of low-bass extension to your loudspeakers.
and
But more importantly, every record you put on seems more vivid yet more involving, even when you might have thought that you didn't like the music.
As David Neel is suggesting I will now stick with my MM pickup and try to max-out the LP12 before entering MC-world.

Here is a link to the review:
https://www.stereophile.com/turntables/513/index.html
LP12/Lingo2/Akito 3B/AT-VM95C/Gaio 2.4/Boazu 1.1/JERN 12WS
Allan3630
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Re: Troika and Naim Stageline K/S

Post by Allan3630 »

My suggestion would be to add a new stylus to the K9, or replace it with an AT-VM95 https://lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4850
Fascinating reading. I can see that I should have kept the K9 and replaced the stylus..much simpler!

Unfortunately I have bought the Troika now. It was used as a demo in a hifi shop before it was packed away so it has the original tip which will hopefully last a couple of years.

Now, in addition to a MC phono stage, I will start looking for PSU. I may have to give up on the Linto and find something more modest (like a Rega fono MC)

The Lingo is a bit too dear for me. Is the the Mose+ Hercules II a good alternative?
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