Playground for practical listening exercices

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

Moderator: Staff

User avatar
El Mero Mero
Member
Member
Posts: 37
Joined: 2007-11-04 22:38
Location: Sweden

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by El Mero Mero » 2020-09-11 14:48

David Neel wrote:
2020-09-09 19:56
Aarghh! You have my full sympathy. A few years ago I bought a new set of kitchen knives, and made the mistake of trying to catch one that I dropped.
The second time I dropped one I stepped back and it fell to the floor...
Never catch a falling knife. Technical Analysis 101.

beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1827
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-09-11 15:58

FairPlayMotty wrote:
2020-09-11 12:30
I found it very striking how devoid of ringing that case was after damping. And also that Cambridge Audio use damping beneath the transport.

Anything I can do to improve my streamers I'll try - within reason :-)
I am not sure that the word damping is the right word to use regarding what I seek. Maybe it is more about getting everything to vibrate the same way avoiding individual parts working against each other creating disturbance in the system..........
In need of good ears

FairPlayMotty
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 497
Joined: 2018-08-28 11:10
Location: Scotland

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2020-09-11 16:24

beck wrote:
2020-09-11 15:58
I am not sure that the word damping is the right word to use regarding what I seek. Maybe it is more about getting everything to vibrate the same way avoiding individual parts working against each other creating disturbance in the system..........
I understand you but even underneath the CD transport?

I might at some point tweak either of my universal players.
Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.

Whatsmynaim
Member
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: 2019-10-29 23:55

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Whatsmynaim » 2020-09-11 17:34

I see damping as an extension of torquing and like torquing it's possible to go too far.
..and I wouldn't fill a player with damping material like they did in the video. One needs to be delicate like Beck and do it in steps and listen every time if it's actually an improvement.

He's onto something with not removing all vibrations at all costs but fine tuning the parts so everything in
the player is working together. If a singer in a choir is doing a bad job you don't correct the whole choir.
Last edited by Whatsmynaim on 2020-09-11 18:16, edited 1 time in total.

FairPlayMotty
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 497
Joined: 2018-08-28 11:10
Location: Scotland

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2020-09-11 18:12

Whatsmynaim wrote:
2020-09-11 17:34
One needs to be delicate like Beck and do it in steps and listen every time if it's actually an improvement.
That goes without saying ;-)
Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.

Whatsmynaim
Member
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: 2019-10-29 23:55

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Whatsmynaim » 2020-09-11 19:11

..Well true. I'm starting to state the obvious. It's bound to happen in these repeated discussions ;)
Also the feeling of déjà vu from writing basically the same thing over and over. For me at least.

beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1827
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-09-11 19:35

Whatsmynaim wrote:
2020-09-11 19:11
..Well true. I'm starting to state the obvious. It's bound to happen in these repeated discussions ;)
Also the feeling of déjà vu from writing basically the same thing over and over. For me at least.
That is not as bad as me recording the same music over and over again! :-)


I am not under the illusion that I understand anything of what is going on. The only thing I know is that it is very hard to get digital right when it comes to reproducing recorded music.

Luckily I can use my ears and compare with analog so that is my plan now and in the future. :-)



To those who think they need special golden ears to do what we do here think again. All you need is to trust yourself, your own ears and how much you enjoy the music coming from your system.
In need of good ears

User avatar
V.A.MKD
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 482
Joined: 2019-10-09 15:33
Location: Skopje / Europe
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD » 2020-09-12 15:38

Defender wrote:
2020-09-11 11:00
beck wrote:
2020-09-11 10:37
Don Henley once again:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cxe113iidb72i ... 7.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4an53b7zzqrjj ... 3.MOV?dl=0


My take is that the cd version is now good enough for me to get the “rocky” feeling.
I agree with you to 100% - I was surprised that I was hearing the CD version when I opened my eyes to check if A is CD or LP12.
I still like the LP12 more even though the CD might sound more „rocky“ - the LP12 is better in total.
Big achievement.
I fully agree with Defender ... it was unbelievable is it CD or LP12 ... GREAT ...
Music First ...
Vlado

User avatar
V.A.MKD
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 482
Joined: 2019-10-09 15:33
Location: Skopje / Europe
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD » 2020-09-12 15:40

Whatsmynaim wrote:
2020-09-11 17:34
I see damping as an extension of torquing and like torquing it's possible to go too far.
..and I wouldn't fill a player with damping material like they did in the video. One needs to be delicate like Beck and do it in steps and listen every time if it's actually an improvement.

He's onto something with not removing all vibrations at all costs but fine tuning the parts so everything in
the player is working together. If a singer in a choir is doing a bad job you don't correct the whole choir.
+1, especially on ... "One needs to be delicate like Beck and do it in steps and listen every time if it's actually an improvement." ...
Music First ...
Vlado

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2961
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2020-09-12 16:35

I haven't listened to the Henley piece yet, but the piano piece was easily better, more forceful and moving along nicely. I'm pretty amazed buy the sound you are getting out of that old, $500 CD player. As I was listening the bass came in and then the music stopped. I thought "Why did the music stop?" Oh, it's the end of the clip! Doesn't happen to me that much with digital sources, that says plenty.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.

beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1827
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-09-13 08:15

ThomasOK wrote:
2020-09-12 16:35
......... but the piano piece was easily better, more forceful and moving along nicely. I'm pretty amazed buy the sound you are getting out of that old, $500 CD player.
Me too Thomas.

I think of the task for the cd player as being kind of similar to 3d printing (let’s say a cup). If the layers are printed in an invironment where each part of the printer vibrates differently you will get a cup that is less tall and not nice and smooth but rugged and with an uneven surface.

Then think of each note being played as a creation of multiple layers of “print”. Now it is easy to understand that all the layers have to be printed precisely “on top of each other” to create a real dense tone or drumbeat for that matter.

Maybe this is just another description of jitter.....
In need of good ears

Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 3359
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2020-09-13 10:13

I like the analogy.

The Don Henley clips are good. Definitely doesn't have any boring digital sound to it.

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2961
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2020-09-15 20:42

Yes, the Don Henley clips are good, but I definitely prefer the LP (what a surprise).
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.

beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1827
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-09-16 19:46

I find it a bit ironic and also fascinating that I in my first post starting this thread wrote the following:

“ Even equipment that is not exactly producing "in tune" music can be rectified to a certain degree using Tune Dem.”

Little did I know what was to come.......

Well, my cd player was on it’s way out of the door when I wrote it and now it is my main source for playing recorded music in my home! :-)
In need of good ears

beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1827
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-09-22 09:19

Lingo connected and turned on:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bnww1sn9yqh9i ... 3.mov?dl=0

Lingo disconnected:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bdxirgb83ah6d ... 0.mov?dl=0


Which do you prefer (and why)?




I am close, I can smell it. :-)
In need of good ears

Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 3359
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2020-09-22 09:50

Difficult but I have a slight preference for the second clip. I can just relax a wee bit more and it makes a little more sense to me.

beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1827
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-09-22 10:45

Charlie1 wrote:
2020-09-22 09:50
Difficult but I have a slight preference for the second clip. I can just relax a wee bit more and it makes a little more sense to me.
Ekstra, ekstra...just in!

The third option -

Linto connected and turned on:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3p5iurlcujalr ... 9.mov?dl=0
In need of good ears

kallesprätt
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 77
Joined: 2014-05-17 08:06

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by kallesprätt » 2020-09-22 11:34

I like your third option.
On these three sets I think Mark is making his best performance i option three

Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1136
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: East of The Black Country, UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2020-09-22 13:44

I prefer the options in the following order, from best to worst.

1. Linto connected
2. Lingo disconnected
3. Lingo connected

The results of your experiments appear to be mirroring mine, and is a great example of the damage a Lingo can inflict (on some systems), as Naim and many Naim owners have said ever since it came out.

I’ve noticed that my diy power supply improves the Netgear smps even when the Netgear is plugged into another circuit. I’ve not mentioned it because I’ve been lead to believe that it shouldn’t happen, and if it does, it’s due to poor design! (Poor design makes HiFi sound better? Hmm, I need to think about that one!).

Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 3359
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2020-09-22 23:54

Just listened to the Linto clip. Still have a slight preference for Lingo disconnected although these two are closer together than Lingo connected which seemed even worse tonight.

beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1827
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-09-23 03:55

Charlie1 wrote:
2020-09-22 23:54
Just listened to the Linto clip. Still have a slight preference for Lingo disconnected although these two are closer together than Lingo connected which seemed even worse tonight.
I can actually hear what you hear but with the Linto connected and turned on I get that missing dense feeling so my next move will be to experiment with different power cables connected to the Linto! :-)
In need of good ears

Post Reply