First, as a newcomer, let me say that I have explored a little of this site and I am very impressed by the quality of entries and the depth of knowledge displayed across the forums. Unfortunately, I am a relatively ignorant enthusiast, although I've been playing with different set ups for quite a few years.
Like some of your other respondents I have to upgrade slowly via the second-hand market which means I have to research carefully before picking my targets, so a service like this is an absolute nugget.
So, in the interest of 'giving' before I 'take', let me offer a little anecdote before I ask my question.
A few years ago I sought out a second hand LP12 to replace my Systemdek, and in the process of reviewing the deck that I ultimately bought, I encountered a charismatic HiFi enthusiast. He was (and probably still is) an ex dealer with lots of ideas that struck me as unconventional, since I'd never encountered them before. One of his ideas was that a mobile phone in the same room as the listener audibly hides detail, and he persuaded me to do a 'before' and 'after' test with his system (it looked very exotic, with speakers that seemed taller than me). I was sceptical, particularly as the world of HiFi seems to have its fair share of snake-oil.
The first test was with my mobile powered up and in my hand, and we played one of my favourite LP's. The second test I turned off the mobile and (apparently this is significant) we put it in a different room. In this sitting I surprised myself by hearing some high frequency sounds that I did not recall on the first session. I must admit to feeling at this point that the difference must surely be 'all in the mind'. I could hear a difference, but it was slight, so I repeated the first test and found I could not hear the small high frequency sounds I heard in the second test.
We did not do any further tests, but a friend and I did repeat them with my system at home. Admittedly it was not as high-end as the original system (an early Majik-I and LK100 with the LP12 driving Ruark Talismans), but we could not detect any differences at all. Soooo, was it all in the mind? Or was it a real effect? :mrgreen:
Anyway, to the question I would like to ask:
I am in the process of planning the build of my new house and would like to make my HiFi as invisible in the living room as possible (to be precise, my wife is particularly keen on this idea). Is it practical to conceal all the components except the speakers into built-in cabinets? How would I deal with heat dissipation and how can I make the remote controls operate?
Invisible HiFi
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springwood64
- Very active member
- Posts: 834
- Joined: 2008-10-13 18:19
- Location: UK
Invisible HiFi
Pete
I have done the passive speaker test a couple of times and I would describe the difference exactly as you. For me that indicates that there likely are some truth in it.
As for the invisible hifi question; How would you like it to place the hifi (except for the speakers ofcourse :) ) in an adjacent room? I have such an installation and though it is a bit lengthy to swap LP:s there surely are positive sides even apart from the aesthetics (reduced acoustical feedback, less risk of meddlesome kids ...). A DS-based system would not require any regular access so if that is a route you have considered that is a neat solution. If it is possible you can feed the speaker-cables straight through the wall where you plan to position your speakers or if you plan to use in-wall speakers the solution is ... well no problem.
I use standmount speakers and a small sub (white) with the cables almost invisible (hidden in white cloth tubes, 2xK400 to each speaker!!!) and even my wife and her furnishing-obsessive friend thinks it looks great. It is not exactly invisible but rather appealing instead. Maybe that could be a solution to consider?
As for the invisible hifi question; How would you like it to place the hifi (except for the speakers ofcourse :) ) in an adjacent room? I have such an installation and though it is a bit lengthy to swap LP:s there surely are positive sides even apart from the aesthetics (reduced acoustical feedback, less risk of meddlesome kids ...). A DS-based system would not require any regular access so if that is a route you have considered that is a neat solution. If it is possible you can feed the speaker-cables straight through the wall where you plan to position your speakers or if you plan to use in-wall speakers the solution is ... well no problem.
I use standmount speakers and a small sub (white) with the cables almost invisible (hidden in white cloth tubes, 2xK400 to each speaker!!!) and even my wife and her furnishing-obsessive friend thinks it looks great. It is not exactly invisible but rather appealing instead. Maybe that could be a solution to consider?
Hi Springwood64 and welcome to the forum.
Quadraspire have just launched something called the Media Wall Solution which might be up your street. I'm afraid I know nothing about it or how it would effect the music - just saw it advertised in a magazine:
http://www.quadraspire.co.uk/latest_news/index.html
Quadraspire have just launched something called the Media Wall Solution which might be up your street. I'm afraid I know nothing about it or how it would effect the music - just saw it advertised in a magazine:
http://www.quadraspire.co.uk/latest_news/index.html
That sounds like a really neat solution you have. I've often wondered what positive effect there would be by moving the system to another room. Like you say, apart from changing LPs, it has some real advantages.hcl wrote:I have such an installation and though it is a bit lengthy to swap LP:s there surely are positive sides even apart from the aesthetics (reduced acoustical feedback, less risk of meddlesome kids ...). A DS-based system would not require any regular access so if that is a route you have considered that is a neat solution. If it is possible you can feed the speaker-cables straight through the wall where you plan to position your speakers or if you plan to use in-wall speakers the solution is ... well no problem.
I use standmount speakers and a small sub (white) with the cables almost invisible (hidden in white cloth tubes, 2xK400 to each speaker!!!) and even my wife and her furnishing-obsessive friend thinks it looks great. It is not exactly invisible but rather appealing instead. Maybe that could be a solution to consider?
Isn't Knekt the obvious solution? A Knekt RCU, or Basik IR RCU will control your entire Linnsystem, except the manual LP12 and the new DS players, wich will have to be controlled by a PC/GUI. Keep the system in another room or in a ventilated cabinet. (No back wall in the cabinet?) Speakers can be Unik on Brakit or the new Custom 2K inwall? Don't forget to tunedem the placement!
And on the other subject: Passive speakers are a classic test, but works only on good systems! It has to be good in the first place to be hurt by the effect.
And on the other subject: Passive speakers are a classic test, but works only on good systems! It has to be good in the first place to be hurt by the effect.
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springwood64
- Very active member
- Posts: 834
- Joined: 2008-10-13 18:19
- Location: UK
Thank you for your very helpful suggestions. I see that I have inadvertently demonstrated my ignorance! What I suspected was some sort of 'Derren Brown' mind manipulation is in fact an established effect. :oops:
I hadn't considered putting the kit in another room. That's a v interesting idea hcl, especially as it would make sense to stick all the LPs and CDs etc in the same room, which keeps them out of view of the main room. It would also probably be cheaper than bespoke or specialist cabinetry. I could minimise the inconvenience of changing disks by ensuring the 'audio' room has a doorway close to the listening area. Food for thought anyway. The 'quadraspire' design looks very clever too, Charlie1. I'll check it out.
Linnofil, your suggestion of Knekt got me doing some research, and I'm not sure I've quite figured it out yet. :( The situation is made a little more complicated for me as I am in the process of attempting an incremental upgrade. I currently have an LP12/Linto and Arcam DV88 DVD player feeding into a Kairn and Klout in combination with a Yamaha DSP E800. Speakers are Ruark Talismans plus some shonky surrounds.
I'm about to get hold of an AV 5103 with two 5125s driving 5140s. I look forward to using the tunedem technique to decide what stays and what goes. I hope to replace the Kairn and the Yamaha with the 5103, with the eventual aim of obtaining an all-Linn system by the time the house gets built, ideally with active speakers (using klouts?). I'll let you all know how I get on with this lot.
I'm not sure what implications this has for using Knekt. I've checked out the manual for the 5103 and while it shows an RCU connection on the back-plate, I can't find any indication how it all fits together. In contrast, the Kairn 'remote out' connection I already use with the klout. I can't see how this fits the knekt RCU at all. I've done a little web-based research that implies installing Knekt is not easy for the layman and I can't find an installation manual. Would you advise a dealer installation?
Finally, Linnofil your suggestion regarding on-wall or in-wall speakers is interesting because I'd started by planning in-wall, but had backed away from it because I couldn't be confident that I'd plan the correct speaker positions. To use the tunedem method, you'd have to experiment and then cut the speaker placements. It also makes upgrading more difficult and I wasn't confident that I'd get as good results with in-wall as with floor standers. I'd be interested in the experience of others regarding Linn in-wall speakers.
Thanks once again for your suggestions.
I hadn't considered putting the kit in another room. That's a v interesting idea hcl, especially as it would make sense to stick all the LPs and CDs etc in the same room, which keeps them out of view of the main room. It would also probably be cheaper than bespoke or specialist cabinetry. I could minimise the inconvenience of changing disks by ensuring the 'audio' room has a doorway close to the listening area. Food for thought anyway. The 'quadraspire' design looks very clever too, Charlie1. I'll check it out.
Linnofil, your suggestion of Knekt got me doing some research, and I'm not sure I've quite figured it out yet. :( The situation is made a little more complicated for me as I am in the process of attempting an incremental upgrade. I currently have an LP12/Linto and Arcam DV88 DVD player feeding into a Kairn and Klout in combination with a Yamaha DSP E800. Speakers are Ruark Talismans plus some shonky surrounds.
I'm about to get hold of an AV 5103 with two 5125s driving 5140s. I look forward to using the tunedem technique to decide what stays and what goes. I hope to replace the Kairn and the Yamaha with the 5103, with the eventual aim of obtaining an all-Linn system by the time the house gets built, ideally with active speakers (using klouts?). I'll let you all know how I get on with this lot.
I'm not sure what implications this has for using Knekt. I've checked out the manual for the 5103 and while it shows an RCU connection on the back-plate, I can't find any indication how it all fits together. In contrast, the Kairn 'remote out' connection I already use with the klout. I can't see how this fits the knekt RCU at all. I've done a little web-based research that implies installing Knekt is not easy for the layman and I can't find an installation manual. Would you advise a dealer installation?
Finally, Linnofil your suggestion regarding on-wall or in-wall speakers is interesting because I'd started by planning in-wall, but had backed away from it because I couldn't be confident that I'd plan the correct speaker positions. To use the tunedem method, you'd have to experiment and then cut the speaker placements. It also makes upgrading more difficult and I wasn't confident that I'd get as good results with in-wall as with floor standers. I'd be interested in the experience of others regarding Linn in-wall speakers.
Thanks once again for your suggestions.
Pete