Playground for practical listening exercices

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Ron The Mon
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Ron The Mon » 2019-08-09 04:39

tokenbrit wrote:
2019-08-09 01:16
B here too. For me it's upright vs grand -A sounds ok until you listen to B, then you realise that A is (more than) a bit one dimensional. A just presents the main note that's struck whereas B includes the other notes in the chord and resonances that makes it sound like a real piano, piece, and performance.
Agreed, there is a lot more body in the sound of the instrument. The playing also sounds much more well rehearsed; like the player practices on an electric or upright and is enjoying letting loose on an eight-footer.

Is this strictly a comparison of rips? If so, this is a far larger difference than anything you've previously posted.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-08-09 08:29

+1
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-09 09:01

Ron The Mon wrote:
2019-08-09 04:39
Is this strictly a comparison of rips? If so, this is a far larger difference than anything you've previously posted.
Yes, the shift between clips is so pronounced that it's hard to believe they are the same recording.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by David Neel » 2019-08-09 10:26

I didn't say this was a comparison between rips. Although A is newly ripped.....

I was listening to A, and feeling pretty pleased with myself that the new rips sounded rather good, when I remembered that I also have this album on vinyl. The digital recording is by ECM. A is the iTunes rip on my LSNAS played through my ADS/3. B is the LP on a full-house (Urika 1) LP12. I left the single source buttons off on the Sagatuns, although the LP12 does use the best input, the ADS/3 the next one.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-09 10:53

Ha, you got us there.

I'd knock all this digital nonsense on the head! - unless you're entertaining family with kids and need to play some nursery rhymes or have a 'Lift Music' greatest hits CD you want to rip :D

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by matthias » 2019-08-09 11:55

David Neel wrote:
2019-08-09 10:26
I was listening to A, and feeling pretty pleased with myself that the new rips sounded rather good, when I remembered that I also have this album on vinyl. The digital recording is by ECM. A is the iTunes rip on my LSNAS played through my ADS/3. B is the LP on a full-house (Urika 1) LP12. I left the single source buttons off on the Sagatuns, although the LP12 does use the best input, the ADS/3 the next one.
Would be interesting to compare the ECM CD played back on a very good CD transport vs the LP.

Matt
LP12 / Exposure / JBL3677

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-13 12:51

4-way Pro Elec mains block with 50cm lead vs 4-way Masterplug with 1m lead.

I've recently moved the main system to another wall in the same room and not really played much with speaker positioning at yet.

Currently LP12/Urika/LK Majik-i/Katans.

Masterplug: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uge0py0zb73tw ... 3.MOV?dl=0
Pro Elec: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4w9kwiqh8p5or ... 5.MOV?dl=0

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-08-13 13:33

I relax completely into the music when listening to the Masterplug clip. I feel slightly on edge listening to the Pro Elec clip.

Lovely music.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-08-13 17:29

My 8 year old grandson thinks the masterplug sounds best because “the piano sounded nice” and with the Pro Elec “it didn’t even sound like a piano!”

Personally, I thought the masterplug had a great pulse which was missing with the Pro Elec. Also, it was enjoyable to duet with the Boss through the masterplug, but was difficult with the jumbled sound of the Pro Elec.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2019-08-13 21:59

Masterplug for me. Flows better.

You still don't know whether the direction of the cord on these two strips is the best one, right? The slightly stiffer and more detail oriented sound of the Pro Elec is something I associate with a cord in the wrong direction. At least in power cords, where the effect is more pronounced.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-13 22:37

That's correct - they are both plain white leads.

I enjoy music more with the Masterplug too although I prefer the sound of the Pro Elec which seems to soften the slightly analytical sound of the Majik-1.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2019-08-14 07:10

Plain white leads? Surely there's something written on them, no? One can't sell cable without stating on the jacket what's inside.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-14 09:02

You're right Fredrik. I held them to daylight and there is very small embossed lettering on each lead.

And you're right again, the Pro Elec runs to the plug whereas the Masterplug runs to the system.

2 Gold Stars in the post!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2019-08-14 10:48

OK, but unless it's the exact same model of cable on these two strips and you have tried both directions, you have no idea which direction is optimal. It could be "with text" (text runs toward the strip) or "against text" (text runs toward the plug) that sounds best.

If you can buy the strip in a store, I recommend you look through the wrapping (magnifying glasses can be helpful) and buy two identical strips but with the cable in opposite directions. Then bring them home and compare them in your system.

If you order the strip online, there's a risk you'll get a lot of the same direction of the cable. I've recently ordered 250 power cords and they were all the same direction (the best one, yippee). Other times I've had 10-20% in one direction and 80-90% in the other.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-14 11:53

Thanks Fredrik.

I ordered x2 of the Pro Elec but they are both the same. I think I'll call it a day on them now.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-14 12:13

160 arrived this morning. Not warm yet but couldn't resist a couple of clips...

1. Unserviced 12S / 160 serviced in 2003: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4k94083fbcnhs ... 3.MOV?dl=0
2. Just serviced 32.5 / 160 serviced in 2003: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b36paef8f0jyq ... 5.MOV?dl=0

I'll probably get the 12S serviced as well as the 160 but I like them as they are.

Feel that I've finally found a good partner for Kan 1s. As much as I enjoy Katans, its the Kans which I really want in the main system.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-08-14 13:19

Liking the 32.5 & 160...

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-08-14 14:17

+1
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-14 14:56

I don't think I could live with the 32.5. Maybe a 32 would be OK. Perhaps it doesn't come across so much in this clip but the 32.5 is veering too much towards that full on in your face relentless Naim sound that I don't like.

I think I'll get the 12S serviced at some point though.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-08-14 16:21

Certainly doesn't come across in the clip, and I have felt aurally pinned to a wall by Naim amps before so know what you mean by "that full on in your face relentless Naim sound" :/ If anything, the 12S came across more like that due to the relative lack of musicality... The 12S had similar sound to the 32.5 in the clips, but was noticeably less musical.

I'd have thought, though, that servicing the 12S (& the 160) would bring the 12S performance closer to the serviced 32.5... Naim do have a signature so not sure that serviced 12S vs 32.5 will change it that much to move away from the sound that you acknowledge you don't like :? I could be wrong - have been before & will be again ;) No harm finding out I guess except, possibly, in some financial outlay. You do seem to be enjoying trying out all this old gear so why not...

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-14 16:42

Thanks tokenbrit - I always appreciate your comments (and good humour).

Not sure what it is but I enjoy the 12 more. I sometimes find the NAC 32.5 better for a bit but overall I'm just not enjoying the music as much.

Didn't Guy Lamote create the .5 improvements? I seem to just like the JV-only stuff like the Nait 1.

I might wait until I can find another NAC12 and just get one of them serviced and then compare.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-08-14 20:15

You're welcome. It's fun following along on your old gear odyssey to find the music. Thanks for sharing.

Just a thought, since I could relate to your comment about Naim: have you tried a Tundra in your system? To me, Fredrick's boxes are somewhere between Naim & Linn: less overtly warm than Linn; less tiringly relentless than Naim - more true to the input and to the music above all. If you still have your Kikkin, you'd just need a tidy Tarandus'd Tundra and your search could be over. Unless you're having fun playing and don't want to go 'home' yet ;)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by AlbannachFE » 2019-08-14 21:30

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-08-14 12:13
160 arrived this morning. Not warm yet but couldn't resist a couple of clips...

1. Unserviced 12S / 160 serviced in 2003: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4k94083fbcnhs ... 3.MOV?dl=0
2. Just serviced 32.5 / 160 serviced in 2003: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b36paef8f0jyq ... 5.MOV?dl=0

I'll probably get the 12S serviced as well as the 160 but I like them as they are.

Feel that I've finally found a good partner for Kan 1s. As much as I enjoy Katans, its the Kans which I really want in the main system.

Both are musical, IMO, but sound quite different; I wonder how much of that is down to the age/service status of some of the items?

I'm not sure if Naim is particularly popular in these parts, but I would certainly be interested in hearing more of these combos, once fully warmed up.

Re. the .5 mods; yes, I believe it was Guy Lamotte, but everything during 'JV era Naim' had to be approved by the man himself e.g. an excerpt from an interview regarding attempts at a more powerful, but musical, Nait:-


JV: "...Well, we've tried making it more powerful," Julian jumped in. "When I was away on holiday, some of our people cooked up a more powerful version and presented it to me on my return."

Interviewer: "And?"

JV: "It sounded awful."

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-14 22:11

tokenbrit wrote:
2019-08-14 20:15
Just a thought, since I could relate to your comment about Naim: have you tried a Tundra in your system? To me, Fredrick's boxes are somewhere between Naim & Linn: less overtly warm than Linn; less tiringly relentless than Naim - more true to the input and to the music above all. If you still have your Kikkin, you'd just need a tidy Tarandus'd Tundra and your search could be over. Unless you're having fun playing and don't want to go 'home' yet ;)
I took quite a lot of funds out of the system for spending on other things. With what's left, I'm enjoying spending up to about £500 per component on the second hand market and then selling what doesn't work with little loss. A second hand Boazu would be tempting though but can't really afford second hand Sagatun/Tundra. I sold the Kikkin when I bought the black KK, also sold now. It's a good idea though and I agree about the Lejonklou sound - much more lifelike than Linn and not tiresome like Naim.

I'm very happy with the office setup now (Nait/Keilidhs) and that's the one that actually gets used most often.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-14 22:15

AlbannachFE wrote:
2019-08-14 21:30
Both are musical, IMO, but sound quite different; I wonder how much of that is down to the age/service status of some of the items?

I'm not sure if Naim is particularly popular in these parts, but I would certainly be interested in hearing more of these combos, once fully warmed up.

Re. the .5 mods; yes, I believe it was Guy Lamotte, but everything during 'JV era Naim' had to be approved by the man himself e.g. an excerpt from an interview regarding attempts at a more powerful, but musical, Nait:-


JV: "...Well, we've tried making it more powerful," Julian jumped in. "When I was away on holiday, some of our people cooked up a more powerful version and presented it to me on my return."

Interviewer: "And?"

JV: "It sounded awful."
Thanks AlbannachFE. Thanks for the JV story too.

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