Uppgraded Klimax Kontrol..?

Komri · Post by **Komri** » 2008-09-13 09:54

There are romours of a uppgradekit to the Klimax Kontrol on the Swedish Linn Forum. Anyone here that maybe knows more...?

Any other products that are in for a upgrade? Kisto, Klimax Solo, Twin?

poppop · Post by **poppop** » 2008-09-13 10:11

Hi Komri

Yes, new KK available to dealers now in the UK. Available for purchase in October. Upgrade kit available for existing owners. Rumoured to be £1800 for the kit.

cheers
steve.

Komri · Post by **Komri** » 2008-09-13 10:24

Great, thanks.

Have you heard anything about the soundimprovement compared to the "old" Klimax Kontrol?

Do you know what is included in the "upgradekit"?

Komri · Post by **Komri** » 2008-09-13 10:26

and if there is an upgrade comming for The Kisto?

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2008-09-13 10:45

I've heard that the new one is quite a lot better, but didn't have time to ask any details.

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2008-09-13 11:40

Take a look here on the official Linn forums:

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=794

poppop · Post by **poppop** » 2008-09-13 12:14

Komri

Just what the other guys are saying - that the "word" is its a good bit better.

I "believe"(but am happy to be wrong) That it is a dealer upgrade not a return to factory. That it may just consist of dropping a new audio board in BUT, I cant rememebr if there are some mods to the power supply!!?

I also understand that depending on when you bought the KK there will be a significant discount on the upgrade price. Cant remember(senility) what tha time scale is though - 1 year? Guess it will be along the same line as the Artikulat - Klimax upgrade.

Steve.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2008-09-13 20:06

I have not heard the upgrade yet. Linn have announced the new Klimax Kontrol to dealers and it is supposed to start shipping September 29th, orders are being accepted now. According to the press release the change is to a "dual mono volume control topology" which reduces noise and distortion even further giving a definite improvement in musical reproduction. I can certainly see how running what is essentially a dual mono preamp through a single volume control circuit could lead to crosstalk and eliminating this crosstalk would indeed improve the sound just as two Lintos improves the sound. But there may be more to it than that as well.

The price is going up a bit to $13,500US from the current $12,610. The upgrade will run $3400US and appears to be dealer installed as Linn promised upgrade instructions on the dealer web site. The upgrade will be available at 50% off to those who purchased a new KK in the six months prior to the introduction date (so March 29th) but that special will only last for 2 months after the intro. After that it goes back to normal pricing.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2008-09-14 09:08

ThomasOK wrote:The upgrade will run $3400US and appears to be dealer installed as Linn promised upgrade instructions on the dealer web site. The upgrade will be available at 50% off to those who purchased a new KK in the six months prior to the introduction date (so March 29th) but that special will only last for 2 months after the intro. After that it goes back to normal pricing.

So around 2.5k€ then...
Do you happen to know if the full price upgrade is also limited in time?

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2008-09-15 02:18

I don't believe there is any time limit on the full price upgrade. Usually Linn makes upgrades available until they are no longer applicable. The Cirkus upgrade would be a good example of this.

qweos · Post by **qweos** » 2008-09-15 16:01

The prices in Spain are 2.320€ for the upgrade and 10.000€ for a new KK (the same price than the old version).

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2009-02-17 19:18

Received a PM from Charlie1 but reply here as it can be interesting for more than him.
Got my KK upgraded a few weeks ago and it's one of the biggest upgrades ever - and I've done many during 20 years.
Bigger then my Unidisk 1.1 --> Klimax DS? :shock:
KK mkI wasn't so good after all

As always, burn in is a pain. :(
The sound and musicality change from day to day. The worst scenario is when it's sounding great but it's musically less good...HATE THAT.
Still waiting for the bass to return to full strength. Getting better and better over time though.

blom · Post by **blom** » 2009-02-23 15:44

My thoughts exactly, ML! I've been thinking about writing something similar for a while. Strange really that the KK upgrade hasn't caused more of a stir :o

To me as well the KK upgrade is a substantial one. And if one takes into account bang-for-the-buck it's really outstanding, especially if you were fortunate enough to get it at the reduced price!

A real eyeopener (earopener?) to find out that the KK mk1 could be a "bottleneck" in a system (Yes I would have considered this an absurd statement as well!)

ML, have you tested the balanced inputs? What do you think?

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2009-02-24 12:18

blom wrote: A real eyeopener (earopener?) to find out that the KK mk1 could be a "bottleneck" in a system (Yes I would have considered this an absurd statement as well!)

Yes, absurd is a good word!

blom wrote: ML, have you tested the balanced inputs? What do you think?

Not yet.
One the KK mkI, balanced from KDS was better. (first product from Linn where this is the case, Unidisk 1.1 --> KK was best single ended)
Making sure single ended has a fair chance, running KDS --> KK single ended during burn in. Going to evaluate balanced in about 3 months and report back then.
What is best according to you? What is your source..

cremona · Post by **cremona** » 2009-02-24 16:54

From what i have been told by the linn service worker in my country, the new Linn KK boards are very different from the old design and are now indeed a True balanced design.

Il bet my money on that the new kk sound best with balanced connection IF havever you use a True balanced designed source like the Klimax DS .

And yes its preformans is mindblowing, i think its the best money i ever spend in hifi.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2009-02-24 18:22

cremona wrote: i think its the best money i ever spend in hifi.

Hmm *thinking hard*

Some of the bigger upgrades (=best money spent) ever:
- my first LP12 (summer 1986) from Ariston
- Ekos mkI (one of the first produced) from Ittok
- Trojka from K9
- Lingo mkI (one of the first) from Valhalla
- Karik from Quad CD

I can just conclude that the KK upgrade is like a source upgrade!

Other upgrades that have been substantial but to a much higher cost:
- active isobariks/3*LK280 from LK280/Sara
- Bonnec Timpano from Kairn
- KDS from Unidisk 1.1

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2009-02-24 18:34

Music Lover wrote:Other upgrades that have been substantial but to a much higher cost:
- active isobariks/3*LK280 from LK280/Sara
- Bonnec Timpano from Kairn

I read about this Bonnec Timpano on the forum from time to time - didn't Azazello also own one? Do they make anything else worth a listen or was the Timpano a bit of a one hit wonder? Looking at their webpage, they seem to make quite a few products.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2009-02-24 21:42

Charlie1 wrote:Do they make anything else worth a listen or was the Timpano a bit of a one hit wonder? Looking at their webpage, they seem to make quite a few products.

A few years after Timpany, an amp was introduced.
Better than Klout.
Didn't even consider upgrading due to cost.
Wasn't worth it. It wasn't THAT much better.

Not until chakra 200W I found a better amp to a reasonable cost. 4* Klouts --> 2*C4200

Azazello · Post by **Azazello** » 2009-02-25 01:18

Charlie1 wrote:I read about this Bonnec Timpano on the forum from time to time - didn't Azazello also own one? Do they make anything else worth a listen or was the Timpano a bit of a one hit wonder? Looking at their webpage, they seem to make quite a few products.

Timpano is clearly better than Kairn, and some people prefered it to most 5103, but given that todays new price of over 10 000 EUR for the phono version, I think that Slipsik + Kikkin is a better choice ;)

When I tried to sell my Timpano, I couldn't find one single dealer in Europe who sells them today so I think that the whole brand is kind of outdated.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-02-25 02:19

I've heard the Timpano a number of times, and it's a good preamp. Soundwise it's a bit of a mix between Linn and Naim. Haven't heard the latest version, though. The one Azazello had (not the latest) was not as good as an Exotik.

I have never heard their power amps and CD players, but they're probably good too. Also very expensive, so I'm not sure about the value for money.

blom · Post by **blom** » 2009-02-25 18:54

Music Lover wrote: Going to evaluate balanced in about 3 months and report back then.
What is best according to you? What is your source..

You are a patient man! I just decided to test balanced on a whim this past weekend, with very interesting results :shock:

I've had Fredrik's remarks from last year about the KDS balanced outputs in the back of my mind, thinking that this is something to test if/when I ever got the opportunity. This opportunity has now arrived, since a few weeks back; I have exchanged ADS for KDS (was "forced" to take advantage of probably the last promo campaign in quite a while(?)).

Of course I have not had the opportunity to test KDS -> KK mk1 balanced, so I can't say how that compares to KDS -> KK mk2 balanced, but going from single-ended to balanced (mk2) was quite a shocker! And this with the DS not being burned in yet (maybe 100h) and with totally unused cables (they have been maturing for one year, though never been played). My initial seat-of-the-pants impression, after a weekend of non-stop listening: It is like going from passive to aktiv all over again :D

I don't understand how/why this is possible. Yes I think I remembered to turn down the volume; should be 6dB, right?
Anyway, it would be great if someone could explain what is going on here...

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-02-26 01:40

When comparing balanced with unbalanced, you have to be a bit careful. The sound of balanced connections is nearly always more dynamic and impressive. Musically they aren't necessarily better, though. You have to evaluate that with the Tune Method - which can be a bit difficult if the sound is distractingly different.

My usual advise is to listen from another room - it's easier to focus on the music there, and whether it makes more or less sense.

I found it rather difficult to choose between balanced and unbalanced on Klimax DS to Klimax Kontrol (first version). I tended to think that balanced was better, but not on all occasions. This might have been caused by a variation between different units and/or interconnects, I'm not quite sure.

I don't know what the volume difference is, that depends on how Linn have done the circuits. They could be equally loud or one louder than the other. Anyone who can confirm? Otherwise it should be rather easy to check this by ear.