Power cords

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Defender
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Re: Power cords

Post by Defender » 2018-11-14 12:17

I think the
VOLEX Schuko M2511A, IEC V1625 3x0,75mm2 2 Meter would be fine for sources and Pre and the
VOLEX Schuko M2511A, IEC V1625 3x1,00mm2 3 Meter better for AMP

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Re: Power cords

Post by lejonklou » 2018-11-14 13:32

Defender wrote:
2018-11-14 12:17
I think the
VOLEX Schuko M2511A, IEC V1625 3x0,75mm2 2 Meter would be fine for sources and Pre and the
VOLEX Schuko M2511A, IEC V1625 3x1,00mm2 3 Meter better for AMP
I suppose you base this guess on power amps drawing more current?

In practice, this is not relevant. The best sounding power cord of the two above will sound best for both preamp and power amp!

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Re: Power cords

Post by Defender » 2018-11-14 16:48

yes you are right ...
and also because my power amp asks for a 16A power cord

I know 10A with 0.75mm2 should be enough for almost every amp

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Re: Power cords

Post by Paaf » 2018-11-30 13:23

1. I want to buy power cords (for HAKAI and HAKAI NAS). Which one should I buy? I read this whole thread twice already. :)

2. Yesterday I was on town, and went into a hifi store selling various highend stuff. I asked them about power cables, honest that I was just curious, and probably wouldn't buy anything. They generously offered a demo. They used three different power cables from Nordost with a Naim streamer/amp at €5000 into some speakers at €4000.

The first cable was €370, the next about €800 and the last one about €2100. Each was 2m.

All typical hifi parameters improved significantly with each step! I could name many, like more focus, darker background, more details, better separation, etc etc. Although, IMHO, the last cable was a bit too bright in combo with the bright speakers used.

Best of all was after the demo, when I asked him to put the "cheap" one on again. And then I asked him to stop playing. It sounded just awful after hearing the expensive one. lol

I also asked him about the swedish brand Supra, he said their power cables were fine at their price (€50?) but nowhere near even the "cheap" Nordost he had demoed.

OK, I can hear you all here screaming "we don't care! what about tune!" :)

Honestly, I got quite distracted by the bright highend hifi sound, which I'm not used to at all - but I will say that I enjoyed the music more with the second cable than the first.

Now, my quite serious question: How do such very expensive cables compare with the cables mentioned in this thread, for instance the Longwell or Volex?

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Re: Power cords

Post by beck » 2018-11-30 17:44

The short answer: I do not know......

You cannot use what you have heard in any way.

Test in your own system before buying. Even better you can make clips that makes it possible for others to guide you.
............in our thoughts.............

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Re: Power cords

Post by Defender » 2018-12-01 20:25

to be honest even though I think you have the money and you might be ready to spend it - my advice is to wait for 2 to 3 weeks and see if you still need to have it.
I think there are other things you can do with the money to improve your system more. I have not compared real expensive power cords but from what I have compared I ended up with stock power cords.

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Re: Power cords

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-01 20:57

I want to hear what you guys think. How do such expensive power cables compare in terms of tune for instance with a power cable that comes with a Klimax DS?

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Re: Power cords

Post by tokenbrit » 2018-12-01 23:51

I don't know what comparisons Fredrik &/or Thomas have done between power cords, but I'd be surprised if they have not listened to the expensive hi-fi cords... They both recommend either cords that come with Linn equipment, or something very similar - the general advice usually being that expensive cords tend to present more impressive sound rather than more engaging music...

If I were you, Paaf, I would start with a standard Linn power cord, which should be available from a good dealer for less than 50 euros - the last ones I got here were $35ea. At least that way you'd have a known musical reference, without breaking the bank, against which to evaluate more expensive power cords.

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Re: Power cords

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-02 13:02

Great post, thank you. I will wait patiently here for their comments, if any. :)

Meanwhile, some week ago I discovered that my old HP printer had a 2m Longwell 0.75mm2 power cord.. I discovered it but disregarded it for quite a while because the text ran the wrong way.. Big mistake - perhaps it's not as good as a "WT" cable, but at least with my HAKAI, it's better than the standard PSU-cable!

Next test will be to try that same cable in the NAS too. And bug all my friends asking what power cable brand they have in their printers. LOL!

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Re: Power cords

Post by Defender » 2018-12-02 14:47

actually ThomasOK answered your question in one of the first pages of the thread - he indeed compared stock power cords to much more expensive ones and preferred the stock power cords.
The Longwell-P 2011 which I found and use is also 3x0.75mm2 and 2Meter long is the best I found and betters everything else Tongyuan, Bahoing and TaHasing.
Mine is with text and I have them with the DS and with the Pre right now and still searching for another one for my amp.
You are on a good way.

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Re: Power cords

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-02 18:22

Defender, you are right! I did read the thread multiple times but that was some weeks ago, before my own Nordost test. Apologies!

One of my friend who has a lot of computer gear already checked all his equipment if any power cables had the brands I want. He's a good friend, doesn't ask any questions about my pretty crazy requests. lol

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Re: Power cords

Post by NinthWave » 2019-01-22 04:44

lejonklou wrote:
2015-10-12 18:34
[...]I am not sure exactly why the molded on plugs are as good as they are, but it's evident that the mechanical properties of the plug matters.[...]
Can it simply be that the molden on are "chemicaly stable" as the polymer material molded around the wire|pins does not allow for gaseous exchange whereas a self installed plug is "open" to gaz exchange and that changes the pin electrical characteristics?

For instance, in a Karl Fischer titrator, the tubing is made from flexible polymer and after the instrument has been sitting unused for a while, one has to purge the lines, because bubbles (lower density than the liquid reagent) appear at the top of the tubes. Those bubbles are not the result of the expansion of a gaz already in the reageant, but from the surrounding air that got inside the tubing because it's permeable.
Image

Another example is the GC Thermal Conductivity Detector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_c ... y_detector in wich, in real short, the resistance of an heated element varies according to the gaz surrounding it.

I teach instrumental analysis, and am not an electronician, but I would believe that it may explain something???

Nicolas
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Re: Power cords

Post by lejonklou » 2019-01-22 09:20

NinthWave wrote:
2019-01-22 04:44
lejonklou wrote:
2015-10-12 18:34
[...]I am not sure exactly why the molded on plugs are as good as they are, but it's evident that the mechanical properties of the plug matters.[...]
Can it simply be that the molden on are "chemicaly stable" as the polymer material molded around the wire|pins does not allow for gaseous exchange whereas a self installed plug is "open" to gaz exchange and that changes the pin electrical characteristics?

For instance, in a Karl Fischer titrator, the tubing is made from flexible polymer and after the instrument has been sitting unused for a while, one has to purge the lines, because bubbles (lower density than the liquid reagent) appear at the top of the tubes. Those bubbles are not the result of the expansion of a gaz already in the reageant, but from the surrounding air that got inside the tubing because it's permeable.
Image

Another example is the GC Thermal Conductivity Detector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_c ... y_detector in wich, in real short, the resistance of an heated element varies according to the gaz surrounding it.

I teach instrumental analysis, and am not an electronician, but I would believe that it may explain something???

Nicolas
Interesting Nicolas!

I've never heard about this before.

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Re: Power cords

Post by The FlatEarther » 2019-01-22 09:46

May I ask what direction do you guys mean when you say “with text”.
Thanks
Steve

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Re: Power cords

Post by lejonklou » 2019-01-22 10:49

The FlatEarther wrote:
2019-01-22 09:46
May I ask what direction do you guys mean when you say “with text”.
Thanks
Steve
"With text" means that the printed text on the cable runs (can be read) from the plug (where mains power enters) to the connector (that connects to your HiFi unit).

"Against text" means that the printed text runs from connector to plug.

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Re: Power cords

Post by The FlatEarther » 2019-01-22 18:27

Many thanks.
KR
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Re: Power cords

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-01-22 20:34

Also "With text" applies to any cable that has text printed on the wire. A wire that is with text has the text running from the source to the load (source component to preamp, preamp to amp, amp to speaker, switch to streamer, wall outlet to strip, strip to component, etc.) and readable in that direction. So the text direction is the same as the predominant signal flow. "Against text" would mean that the text runs in the opposite direction - readable from the load to the source. Which is more musical depends on the cable/wire and must be determined via the tune method.

The idea of gas permeability is interesting and certainly should have some effect. Hard to know if there is any easy way to test it as you have multiple changes, different method of attachment and different plugs. Maybe try cutting open the molding on a plug to allow air to reach the conductors (electrically dangerous) and see if it changes the sound over time (if you try this and shock the heck out of yourself or others I take no responsibility).
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Re: Power cords

Post by Flathearth » 2019-04-16 19:08

Hello,

I have just bought a 2015 lingo equipped with its UK plug but unfortunately need a shuko.
Wire endings are not stripped wire type but terminated.
May I replace it with a better shuko and which you advice,please?

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Re: Power cords

Post by hcl » 2019-04-22 20:27

Opening up the power cable thread again. I am putting together a new recording rig and need three short power cables for that. What would you recommend now(?) or maybe someone have a bunch of good cables that they do not need anymore?

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Re: Power cords

Post by Teemu » 2019-05-15 16:57

Best power distribution block so far, including original Clas Ohlson "Cotech" 6 way block" , way better than anything else i tried. Works fine with original Linn power cables (i have newest Longwell:s)

Here in Finland we have many happy Linn customers that use this block and should work well Naim electronics too.

Give this block couple of days burn in and you'l never go back ordinary stock blocks anymore.

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/wireworld- ... wer-hub-v2

EU, UK versions available (i have EU version)

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Re: Power cords

Post by lejonklou » 2019-05-15 19:00

You posted this in two threads. Which do you want to keep?

Regarding the product, I'd be surprised if a block with gold plated connectors, deoxit treated (awful sounding when I once tried it) and detachable power cord (lots of extra connections, plus a regular power cord is not optimal in this position) sounds better than the cheap and simple ones.

But I'm of course open to the possibility!

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Re: Power cords

Post by Teemu » 2019-05-15 19:35

^ Sorry, deleted another post.

I think star wiring is the key point. Why do you thing that standard power cord is not optimal with this block?

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Re: Power cords

Post by lejonklou » 2019-05-15 20:45

Teemu wrote:
2019-05-15 19:35
^ Sorry, deleted another post.

I think star wiring is the key point. Why do you thing that standard power cord is not optimal with this block?
I've tried star wiring, it was nothing special. Serial wiring sounded better in the block I built (which was beaten by Clas Ohlsson and other cheapo models). But I could be wrong!

My conclusion was that the power cord feeding the power block should ideally be short and have copper conductors of 1.5 square mm. This was just based on trial and error, using many different cords. Standard power cords are 0.75-1.00 sq.mm and don't perform as well when feeding the power block.

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Re: Power cords

Post by lejonklou » 2019-05-15 23:09

I'd just like to add that I'd be happy to try this block, but I don't feel like buying one. Does anyone have one that I can borrow? If it's good, we could try finding the best possible cord feeding it (which will still have less impact on musicality than the actual block itself, as the closer one gets to the units handling the music, the greater the impact).

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Re: Power cords

Post by Teemu » 2019-05-16 07:08

https://www.flickr.com/photos/85314197@N08/15285974910

Here is inside picture, what do you think about it?

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