As some of you may be aware from my other posts, I've just got hold of a pair of Aktiv Kabers, but currently have an amplification issue...I've got two 5125s, but I've found that I can't get stereo aktiv cards.
As such, I appear to have the three following options to drive my speakers:
1 - Keep the 5125s, get an external TuneBox (cost c.£300)
2 - Sell one 5125, get 3x5105 and internal cards (cost c.£450)
3 - Sell one 5125, buy a new 6100 with free aktiv cards (cost c. £1600)
The problem with options 1 and 2 is availability of the TuneBox/aktiv cards. The problem with Option 3 is that it means no upgrade to a DS this year (was probably going to get a Majik DS in a month or two, once I've demoed it against the Sneaky and Akurate).
I'd really appreciate any thoughts on how well each of the above amplifiers would cope with the Kabers. Thanks.
Kaber Amplification - 5125, 5105, 6100?
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rowlandhills
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Kaber Amplification - 5125, 5105, 6100?
KRDSM, Tundra to 242s
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
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Robert Lake
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Stay cool and Source first
I understand your problem since Kabers benefit a lot from activation and/or better amplification. The combination Naim CD and active Kabers should sound great.
But, given that your Naim CD is quite old, and that the source is more important, I would listen to a DS first and make up my mind after that. If you stumble over a tunebox it would be a cost effective upgrade. But, the new cards are probably better and can be moved around the new charkra amplifiers. In the end it depends how much money you are willing to spend on Hi-Fi over the coming 3-5 years.
But, given that your Naim CD is quite old, and that the source is more important, I would listen to a DS first and make up my mind after that. If you stumble over a tunebox it would be a cost effective upgrade. But, the new cards are probably better and can be moved around the new charkra amplifiers. In the end it depends how much money you are willing to spend on Hi-Fi over the coming 3-5 years.
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rowlandhills
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Robert - Thanks for your comments. My Naim CD player has been enhanced quite a lot (offboard custom power supply, replacement of various caps etc.) so sounds rather better than most CD3.5s (in fact better than any of the current Naim players except the CDX2, IMHO). However, I am still hoping to move to a DS player before too long.
I suspect that HiFi will continue to be a money pit for some time, although the 6100 would be it on amplification for next 5 years, I would think. Certainly I can't afford to replace it with x200 series amps in the next few years...
I suspect that HiFi will continue to be a money pit for some time, although the 6100 would be it on amplification for next 5 years, I would think. Certainly I can't afford to replace it with x200 series amps in the next few years...
KRDSM, Tundra to 242s
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
A 6100 will definitely sound better than the 5125 and the 5105 and sill have at least similar power delivery to the 5125.
Your best deal would be to find a dealer selling a demo 6100 (either Chakra or Majik, they are the same except for the faceplate) and pick that up to get the free cards. The dealership I work at has a C6100 for sale as a demo and I'm sure others do as well. They also have a used Tunebox for sale for $600US but it is an earlier model with the transformer power supply. I don't know if Linn will still upgrade it to the SMPS but the upgrade was running $650US a couple of years ago and is likely to be more now.
One question, are you doing surround sound? I ask because I wonder why you don't sell both 5125s as the 6100 has enough channels for the Kabers. That would help reduce the costs and get you closer to a DS.
Your best deal would be to find a dealer selling a demo 6100 (either Chakra or Majik, they are the same except for the faceplate) and pick that up to get the free cards. The dealership I work at has a C6100 for sale as a demo and I'm sure others do as well. They also have a used Tunebox for sale for $600US but it is an earlier model with the transformer power supply. I don't know if Linn will still upgrade it to the SMPS but the upgrade was running $650US a couple of years ago and is likely to be more now.
One question, are you doing surround sound? I ask because I wonder why you don't sell both 5125s as the 6100 has enough channels for the Kabers. That would help reduce the costs and get you closer to a DS.
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rowlandhills
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Thanks Thomas. I hadn't thought of contacting dealers about ex-demo Majik 6100's, as an option which might still get me the free Aktiv cards. Now remedied - Have sent an email to about 20 UK dealers! :)
I will be doing surround shortly, yes, which is why I'm keeping hold of one 5125. I already have an early Centrik (the one which is half a Keilidh, and can be made Aktiv) along with a pair of Tukans. I also have enough Aktiv cards for all of the above...
I will be doing surround shortly, yes, which is why I'm keeping hold of one 5125. I already have an early Centrik (the one which is half a Keilidh, and can be made Aktiv) along with a pair of Tukans. I also have enough Aktiv cards for all of the above...
KRDSM, Tundra to 242s
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
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rowlandhills
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rowlandhills
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To be honest, I'm not sure. Are there photos of the different possibilities anywhere? It was such a good deal that I'm happy either way, but it would be nice to know...lejonklou wrote:One with a Slimline Brilliant? If so, great!
Will write up the sound tomorrow.
KRDSM, Tundra to 242s
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
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rowlandhills
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Writeup of the sound, as promised...
After installation of new tweeters (038/2) I finally had everything delivered yesterday, which gave me the chance to do a bit of a comparison between the Keilidhs and Kabers.
System was my modified Naim CD3.5 into an AV5103, then two AV5125s. 4 channels were used to drive the Keilidhs aktiv with internal cards, the remaining 6 to drive the Kabers aktiv, through a TuneBox. Cables were K400 for the Keilidhs, K600 for the Kabers, and Linn Black interconnects throughout.
I freely admit that it wasn't ideal conditions, not least because the Keilidhs are nicely run in and I spent half a day using tunedem to position them and setup the aktiv cards. The Kabers, on the other hand, have brand new tweeters, new K600, default aktiv card settings, and were just placed in a convenient gap at roughly the right distance from the wall!
First thing I noticed is the difference in size. Given that the grilles fit both speakers (and are sold as "Kaber/Keilidh") as do the KuStone stands, I had assumed that the cabinets were identical...not so! The Kabers are about 25mm narrower (left-right), 10mm deeper (front-back) and 80mm taller.
I left the system to warm up for a while by playing a couple of CDs while I went for lunch, and then returned to listen to them a bit.
Initial impression was that the Kabers seemed much less powerful, but a little more detailed. I soon realised that this was due to a volume issue. Kabers at 65 sounded just as loud as Keilidhs at 60. I guess that this was probably due to the differences in Aktiv card settings and positioning. Certainly I remember the bass level being significantly enhanced when I did the tunedem setup on the Keilidhs a few months back.
After listening to another few tracks, taking a break to do some work, and then coming back again, I've reached the conclusion that the Kabers are better from a tunedem perspective. They show more detail on tracks that I already know, but they're not as warm or immediately engaging as the Keilidhs are. This may be in part down to the setup (positioning and aktiv settings) but is also probably a more accurate representation of the music anyway. I've certainly heard people say that the Keilidh's have an un-natural warmth due to an artificial mid-range boost.
It will be interesting to see how the Kabers change with good setup and running in, but the current position is that the Keilidhs are boxed up and ready to be sold off to someone when I find a buyer. :)
I'd be keen to know what anyone else has found when comparing the two speakers.
After installation of new tweeters (038/2) I finally had everything delivered yesterday, which gave me the chance to do a bit of a comparison between the Keilidhs and Kabers.
System was my modified Naim CD3.5 into an AV5103, then two AV5125s. 4 channels were used to drive the Keilidhs aktiv with internal cards, the remaining 6 to drive the Kabers aktiv, through a TuneBox. Cables were K400 for the Keilidhs, K600 for the Kabers, and Linn Black interconnects throughout.
I freely admit that it wasn't ideal conditions, not least because the Keilidhs are nicely run in and I spent half a day using tunedem to position them and setup the aktiv cards. The Kabers, on the other hand, have brand new tweeters, new K600, default aktiv card settings, and were just placed in a convenient gap at roughly the right distance from the wall!
First thing I noticed is the difference in size. Given that the grilles fit both speakers (and are sold as "Kaber/Keilidh") as do the KuStone stands, I had assumed that the cabinets were identical...not so! The Kabers are about 25mm narrower (left-right), 10mm deeper (front-back) and 80mm taller.
I left the system to warm up for a while by playing a couple of CDs while I went for lunch, and then returned to listen to them a bit.
Initial impression was that the Kabers seemed much less powerful, but a little more detailed. I soon realised that this was due to a volume issue. Kabers at 65 sounded just as loud as Keilidhs at 60. I guess that this was probably due to the differences in Aktiv card settings and positioning. Certainly I remember the bass level being significantly enhanced when I did the tunedem setup on the Keilidhs a few months back.
After listening to another few tracks, taking a break to do some work, and then coming back again, I've reached the conclusion that the Kabers are better from a tunedem perspective. They show more detail on tracks that I already know, but they're not as warm or immediately engaging as the Keilidhs are. This may be in part down to the setup (positioning and aktiv settings) but is also probably a more accurate representation of the music anyway. I've certainly heard people say that the Keilidh's have an un-natural warmth due to an artificial mid-range boost.
It will be interesting to see how the Kabers change with good setup and running in, but the current position is that the Keilidhs are boxed up and ready to be sold off to someone when I find a buyer. :)
I'd be keen to know what anyone else has found when comparing the two speakers.
KRDSM, Tundra to 242s
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
You can easily tell by looking inside the Tunebox. There have been three different power supplies. The first uses a conventional toroidal transformer so it should be obvious if it is this - a round, black can is what you should see. The second is the Brilliant power supply which was the first Switch-Mode power supply (SMPS) from Linn. It is in an aluminum can about the same size as the transformer but is silver colored and should say "Brilliant" on the top. The can is mostly round but with a slightly triangular quality to it - somewhat reminiscent of a bloated rotor from a Wankel engine. The third power supply is the Slimline SMPS which is the second generation switch-mode supply. It is a long, thin rectangular box that is often painted black but also is sometimes seen with a chromed top. It is attached to the side panel of the case near the power inlet. The other two supplies fastened to the bottom of the case with a single large bolt.rowlandhills wrote:To be honest, I'm not sure. Are there photos of the different possibilities anywhere? It was such a good deal that I'm happy either way, but it would be nice to know...lejonklou wrote:One with a Slimline Brilliant? If so, great!
Will write up the sound tomorrow.
I agree with your findings. When I used to sell these two speakers back in the 90's, it was clear that Kaber was a better speaker, with more detail, dryer bass (it sounds like low Q) and better midrange due to the single+higher quality driver that handles the mid.rowlandhills wrote:I've reached the conclusion that the Kabers are better from a tunedem perspective. They show more detail on tracks that I already know, but they're not as warm or immediately engaging as the Keilidhs are.
But I found the Keilidhs to be more forgiving to lower quality sources and less than perfect setup. It also has a more fat and party-like bass (high Q). Hence the name Keilidh, I suppose!
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rowlandhills
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