JBL 3677

[Music Lover]

Congrats!
Do you have Ofil stands on the way to be delivered as well?

[albadrex]

Thank you, a careful reading of this thread has prompted me to go for it. I was absolutely delighted to upgrade recently from c5100 to Tundra 2.0a and I knew I needed much better speakers. These 3677's even at the start of run in are wonderful.. The transparency and response are something I've never heard before.

Offil stands are on order. I'm thinking of designing a cabinet in white to house both speakers and the admittedly lovely stands.

Any forum members who have similar ideas for an enclosure with fabric window? Will draft some rough ideas.

Albadrex

[matthias]

Any forum members who have similar ideas for an enclosure with fabric window? Will draft some rough ideas.
Albadrex

Have you seen the white grills for the 3677s on Fredriks instagram?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BLPqkfCgLo5 ... =lejonklou

Matt

[albadrex]

Thank you Matt,


I was wondering what they looked like! Maybe would
Make more sense than a cabinet and avoid any resonance issues.

I assume they are custom one off grills made specially, will pm to see if they can be obtained.

Thanks again,

Alastair

[jlwdm]

Thomas made those grills for his speakers which were being used at the show.

Jeff

[Music Lover]

They look better without the grills imho.
I like the "non-designed" look of the standard 3677. HIFI-equipment of today is more about design than performance. Personally I preferred the low key look of older Linn&Naim boxes. Never liked the Alu Klimax boxes as they look too exclusive, impressive and expensive.
Within a few weeks, the only remaining Linn box going to be my KDS/2. With the KDS/3 that more or less is just a new DAC, I'm going to look for other options. Sadly, don't think there are any with same performance...

Or ask Linn to upgrade my KDS to /3 but put the new board in the Renew chassis, keeping the old board in the Alu chassis :)
You bet, I'm serious!


One thing is clear, Music Lover going back to basics, where it all started - BLACK BOXES with industrial design !
Love my Lejonklou equipment - full focus on important stuff, not on bling.

[matthias]

Or ask Linn to upgrade my KDS to /3 but put the new board in the Renew chassis, keeping the old board in the Alu chassis :)
You bet, I'm serious!

Clever idea, by selling your KDS/2 and buying the Katalyst-Renew you have a free Katalyst upgrade or make even money.

Matt

[Music Lover]

But Linn will never do this...
Also. same circuit bord in Renew going to be less good than in a Klimax box.

[matthias]

But Linn will never do this...
Also. same circuit bord in Renew going to be less good than in a Klimax box.

So Linn does not allow to upgrade a Renew, say from DS/2 to Katalyst?

Matt

[hcl]

But Linn will never do this...
Also. same circuit bord in Renew going to be less good than in a Klimax box.

So Linn does not allow to upgrade a Renew, say from DS/2 to Katalyst?

Matt

That's a good question, but I guess they will not. I have not heard the KDS/3 yet, so this is pure speculation (based on the raving reviews as of now), but if the Renew PSU is not too cheapo a KRDS/3 would likely sound seriously good, possibly even better than a standard KDS/2.

[matthias]

Yes, IMO a Renew DS/3 could outperform a Klimax DS/2.
But we are off-topic, sorry.

Matt

[mrco99]

Why not order KDS3 Katalyst upgrade from KDS2 with Renew option - then change boards and sell on KDS2 again - that leaves you with Renew DS3 :-)

OT: I think I'd prefer standard look of 3677s, but Thomas' version definately deserve a closer look

[matthias]

So Linn does not allow to upgrade a Renew, say from DS/2 to Katalyst?

The answer:
Linn does not allow to upgrade a Renew.

Matt

[Music Lover]

Why not order KDS3 Katalyst upgrade from KDS2 with Renew option - then change boards and sell on KDS2 again - that leaves you with Renew DS3 :-)

With me performing the swap, likely killing the warranty.
Not sure that is a good idea.

[mrco99]

Then wait for KDS4 to launch, so you van have your Renew DS3 - it 's always one version behind KDS.

[matthias]

They look better without the grills imho.
I like the "non-designed" look of the standard 3677.

After looking at the RMAF pictures, I have to say you are right.

Matt

[ThomasOK]

As several have requested here is some more information on the cosmetic changes I made to the JBL 3677 speakers (I would call them upgrades but I note not everyone agrees).

First off, as I mentioned earlier, when I removed the crossovers I moved the connections to the back – certainly a bit of work and more difficult than just putting banana sockets on the plastic panel where the crossover used to be. I then got some ¾” mdf and covered and filled the holes where the connection panel had been. I had to use some wood putty to get it all flush and sanded it even then painted it black to get it close to the original finish. Once this was done, and the hole on the top was filled the same way, I used a midnight blue flat metallic automotive vinyl wrap to cover the sides, top and bottom of the speaker. As the speakers have a sort of picture frame edge on the front and back I covered that with the blue as well to have a nice finished look. I did a good job but not a perfect one and when you look close you can see some flaws although they don’t really show up in the photos. From a normal distance and in normal light they look quite good and generally come across much darker than in the one close up photo from the side. I may end up redoing them to make them more perfect when I have time but we’ll see. I think I have learned enough to do a really first rate job next time and I bought enough of the vinyl to do two pair (or the subwoofer if I choose, but I’ll likely leave that black). The vinyl wrap has the added benefit of making the big, white JBL logos all but invisible!

On to the grills. It is quite obvious that I took the basic idea for the grills from the Dieter Rams design posted on page 3 of this thread. I also looked at the drawing Spannko came up with on the same page. My immediate thought was that it could work but that there was too much weight at the top with that much black up there compared to the originals. So I did some measurements and drawings and came up with the idea of having the light grill surround the horn and ports at the top to reduce that weight. I got some heavy cardboard, fabric and paint and made some mockups to test out the idea and liked the way it looked. I made two different prototypes, one that went all the way out to the edges of the speaker and one that came in about a half inch on all edges to let you see the edge of the speaker from the front. Since I was wrapping this edge in ¾” with the midnight blue it seemed like a good idea. When I tested them out the one with the edge showing won out as it looked classy with the edge showing and reduced the amount of light area.

I then took the measurements and went to a fabricator to have this pair made. I had them take ¼’ mdf and fit it with an off white laminate (sort of an almond color but lighter – the company that makes it calls it alabaster) and then cut the holes and the edges. They did it exactly the way I asked but it wasn’t cheap - $380 for the pair. (Unfortunately I didn’t have the measurements quite right – more on that later.) That still left all the edges in the natural mdf brown color. So I got some paint custom blended to match the front and painted all the edges and a little onto the back on the edges. Once this was done I used a strong and somewhat rubbery double stick tape to hold the black fabric onto the back of the grills making sure the fabric all ran the same direction. Finally I used some strong Velcro on the speakers and grills to hold them in place – six pieces per speaker (although I may increase that).

These are what you see on the photos from the show and I must say I quite like the retro kind of art deco look of them. There is nothing you can do to these speakers that will make them look anything but big. But I do like the fun style this brings to them. Also since it is a vinyl wrap and a laminate on the front of the mdf grill you could make either any color you wish or even unusual finishes like chrome or carbon fiber on the vinyl wrap. Indeed the vinyl is easily removable so you could change it to something different any time you wished.

The only problem is that my measurement was a little off and the first grill I put on would not quite come up to the blue edge on the top of the speaker so you could see a touch of the black. Worse yet, apparently JBL doesn’t measure all that accurately either, as the woofer on the second one was a bit lower yet than on the first leaving a wider band of black on the top. At normal distances and lighting the black is not visible against the midnight blue so we positioned both of the grilles at the lower position required by the one speaker. But if you look closely you can see that the grill is a little farther from the top of the speaker than the sides and closer to the edge on the bottoms. From some quick measurements I believe the hole for the woofer will have to go down about .5” closer to the bottom to allow the grills to be centered on the speaker. I will certainly measure that precisely before making the mark 2 grills. But it will also have the benefit of making the woofer hole closer to being centered in the white area top to bottom as it is currently left to right so I think it will look even better. Since the company who made these has programmed the measurements into their CNC machine it will be a small change to the measurements to have them make a more accurate new pair.

When I came up with these I really didn’t intend to sell them, I just wanted them for my own use and for the fun of the effect at the show. However if people wanted them I could set about making some up but they wouldn’t be cheap – especially if I have to ship them safely overseas. I would really have to figure how much time and materials are involved in order to come up with a price. But once I have the correct measurements, which may take a little time as I have lots to do after the show, I don’t mind sharing them.

Thanks for all the comments, from both sides, and I’m glad some others like the look.

[Music Lover]

Worse yet, apparently JBL doesn’t measure all that accurately either, as the woofer on the second one was a bit lower yet than on the first leaving a wider band of black on the top.

How much?
On my pair it's about 1mm difference. I think the positioning can be adjusted slightly when you mount the woofer.
Thank's for the information about the modifications, do you have more pics in daylight conditions?
Is was a big dark to really see all details and true colures.

[matthias]

Guys,
what you have found to be the optimum distance between the speakers, measured between the right side of the left speaker and left side of the right speaker?
Thanks

Matt

[lejonklou]

The distance apart definitely varies with the room.

In my living room: 1172 mm
At RMAF: 1500 mm

[ThomasOK]

I just reconnected my system at home a few days ago after having disassembled it all for the show. Fredrik had told me that at his house the speakers were about 4" to the back wall and 1172mm apart. Mine had been closer to 1300mm apart and 5.5" to the back wall. So when hooking it back up I used the Sagatun 1.1 and Tundra 2 stereo units so that I could use a single rack because two Harmoni racks are 1200mm without any space in between so you can't get the speakers very close.

With this setup I found 1mm movements quite audible. Indeed I found a really good distance from the back wall but checked others and it took me a couple of tries to get them back to the right place. In the end I found the distance to the back wall was best at close to 4.5". I switched to measuring in mm because it was easier to read the tape and I think I came up with 114mm but I don't have my notes with me so I may have to correct it later. Distance apart was best at 1166mm. I tried a variety of positions between around 1150 and 1180mm including 1172mm but 1166 was definitely best.

This, however, brings up a conundrum. I can't fit the two Harmoni racks side by side in normal configuration that I need for the Monos, Radikal and KRDS. To complicate things further the LP12 is on a NOKTable in front of the rack. There is also an optimal distance to the back wall for the Harmoni racks and for the NOKTable. So what to do?

The hierarchy suggests that you would optimize the NOKTable first, then the Harmoni racks and finally the speakers, compromising them if necessary. Anybody think, or have actual experience, that this doesn't apply to speakers as they interact with the room more fully?

More experiments will happen before the Monos go back in place this weekend.

[tokenbrit]

Anybody think, or have actual experience...

You asked why people might need Boazu Monos... :)
Otherwise, time to turn the Harmonis sideways, & start on that NOKShelf ;)

[matthias]

The distance apart definitely varies with the room.
In my living room: 1172 mm
At RMAF: 1500 mm

In Christians set-up on the first page of this thread the distance seems to be around 1300 mm.
In MLs set-up pictured in the JBL sub thread the distance seems to be even larger.

Matt

[Music Lover]

App 154cm

[ThomasOK]

Anybody think, or have actual experience...

You asked why people might need Boazu Monos... :)
Otherwise, time to turn the Harmonis sideways, & start on that NOKShelf ;)

Turning the Harmonis sideways is something I already considered and will probably try with the stereos. But then I have to find what distance works best in that orientation and does it allow the NOKTable to be in the best position. Or do I put the two Harmoni racks one in front of the other and the NOKTable next to them. But then that unbalances the position of the two Harmoni racks and one channel would sound better than the other. So many complications!

I will try rack repositionings but first I may see if I have enough room to go around 1500mm apart and find out if there is as good or better position there. It could be like torques where there can be more than one good position but one of them is the best.