Back to Black

[Charlie1]

Not sure lks were accurate but they are the most tuneful and musical amps I've ever heard,Linn were at a good place in those days .

I knew you two were made for each other. I suggest a quiet dinner for two accompanied by some live jazz or string trio.

Seriously, I might feel the same but not heard an LK system for so long.

[Lego]

I'm blushing Charlie :0)

[Lego]

To me, the biggest turn off when listening to recorded music is the altering of the natural relation between the notes being played. I have just received an LP with free jazz from my boss (he is a drummer in the band) and the music is exiting but I cannot keep my focus on it because of the (digital) recording. Even though the "sound" is nice the notes played does not relate to natural live music.
This is to me the defining moment when focus turns towards all things hifi. When the natural relation between notes is left behind all things hifi appear to take center stage when listening and leave the music behind.

Listening to Paul McCartney "Kisses on the Bottom" is a total bliss and reminds me of listening to a live gig.

Come on Beck ..its all about recorded music, you take what there is..whether the lp is digitally mastered recorded etc if you ain't digging the music chances are it's the music.
.If stevie wonder released pastime paradise on a digital recording the music would still fiind its way to my senses.How do all those people that don't have an lp12 appreciate those great albums!?
I wouldn't ask you this if ' free jazz' wasn't mentioned but when you said your boss was a drummer in band, is there more than one !?..Ornette Coleman's double quartet springs to mind ; 0)

[beck]

You are right about free jazz not being my thing but it would help me a lot if the recording was more like live music.
2015 has been a turnaround year for me. Listening to Linn Exact was a big disappointment. Helix to Espek was a great move, failed to appreciate a move to Linn Kairn but ended up ever so happy without using a preamp. Failed to appreciate a move to Linn 2250. Splitting my K400 was a big succes as well as splitting my phono cable on my lp12.
And yes I can fall in love with most of my record collection again even if a recording is weird.

The thing is that I have become increasingly aware of recorded musics limitations and more of a sceptic regarding hifi equipment.

WARNING!: Lates news from me is that the splitting of my K400 and my phono cable was a BIG MISTAKE! At first it sounded nice but I later discovered that it pushes the music out of tune!

[Lego]

You are right about free jazz not being my thing but it would help me a lot if the recording was more like live music.
2015 has been a turnaround year for me. Listening to Linn Exact was a big disappointment. Helix to Espek was a great move, failed to appreciate a move to Linn Kairn but ended up ever so happy without using a preamp. Failed to appreciate a move to Linn 2250. Splitting my K400 was a big succes as well as splitting my phono cable on my lp12.
And yes I can fall in love with most of my record collection again even if a recording is weird.

The thing is that I have become increasingly aware of recorded musics limitations and more of a sceptic regarding hifi equipment.

I hear you Beck...When you had the kairn did you transpose the speaker cables and if so did you change them back without Kairn..I suspect it's the brilliant power supply you don't like as I didn't respond to it at all. .even when I was looking for a kremlin it was the none slimline one I got.Always wondered what the Linto would sound without one , my kairn is probably the closest I have to that..surprised how much I liked kairn phono stage when I loaned our my linto ...I'm finished with buying more hifi , just cartridges from now on.As as I'm concerned Linn are a totally different company now ..which suits me fine ..It was never the same since Charlie Brennan left ..His demo's were legendary

[Charlie1]

I'm finished with buying more hifi , just cartridges from now on.

There's a new Klyde replacement called Krystal. It's £1,200 although you should get a few quid for your Akiva.

It was never the same since Charlie Brennan left ..His demo's were legendary

What was so special about him or his demos?

Somewhat off topic, but someone wrote on the Linn forum recently that Ivor used to say that tune dem was best used to build a short list and that a home dem was then needed. Do you recall him ever saying that?

[Lego]

Probably a slight exaggeration re CB
The most enjoyable sounds I've heard were at his demo's; ~ troika/280s/$aras is one that springs to mind .Obviously the sound linn do now is waaay better.Theyve got better engineers now ;)
Yeh I was glad to see a cartridge at a similar level to Akiva come out and cheaper.
Not sure if Ivor said that but he definitely said it should take you a few seconds to hear the difference on a tune dem, but I doubt he was advocating spending thousands based on a 3 sec decision

[beck]

Did not change anything when listening to the Kairn, so I might have missed something. But I am glad I ended without a preamp. The timing when listening closely to my Klyde with my system turned off and through my system is so similar now it is scary.

[Charlie1]

But I am glad I ended without a preamp.

Maybe I misunderstood but are you still running without any pre-amp? Isn't it too loud?

[beck]

No preamp used for some time now. A really rewarding change and the change that made me replace my silvers with blacks. Read the "Playtime is over, time for some serious questions" tread. It will explain it all. I have three different levels of volume! :-)

And full blast in my system is controlled and loud but not too loud! It is great! :-)

[moog_man]

Failed to appreciate a move to Linn 2250.

hi beck - was this documented in a previous thread? I'd be interested to read more, if so.

[beck]

I have only made a passing comment about it so not much to read. I tried it for a longer period but did not get along with it. Best to listen for yourself if considering getting one. It made my focus shift more towards sound than music.

[moog_man]

I have only made a passing comment about it so not much to read. I tried it for a longer period but did not get along with it. Best to listen for yourself if considering getting one. It made my focus shift more towards sound than music.

Thanks, beck - it's been under consideration recently.
May I ask what amp you reverted back to. LK-100?

[The FlatEarther]

Hi Charlie it was me that wrote about the quick a/b then home dem.

I had the opportunity to both chat to Ivor and hear him "lecture" at a few shows. The best was a Linn Live show in London where it was just Linn. You could listen to various demos and they also had some of their artists present to perform later in the afternoon. I was able to watch, Jon Strong, Steve Gibbons and Claire Martin. It was a fantastic event and a wonderful day out. The purpose was to launch the CD12 and compare it to the latest version of LP12.

Before starting Ivor spoke for the best part of an hour on tune dem giving various analogies and musical examples.

For example he said:
let's say you're looking for a wife. I present you two gorgous women in turn, instantly you know which you prefer. But you would need to take each home and live with them for a short while to be sure. Otherwise it could be living hell! The same for Hifi, choose the wrong one on first impression and it will also be a living hell.

Or:
Music on a good musical system should be like running up a staircase at home. Once you put your foot on the first step you could run up blind because you instinctively know the next steps. So it should be with music. You should instinctively be able to predict the next notes and it should feel right. The piece of kit you're listening to or comparing can be listened to in this way to judge by tune dem.

Or:
The best thing about digital is perfect timing, the worst thing is, no matter how hard we try we cannot get it to sound natural because at the end of the high frequency spectrum three quarters of the complex waveform is missing and we have to rely on algorithms to try and correct it. But we're stuck with it because that's the way industry is going. But we desperately need much higher resolution recordings.

Or:
Listen to A, then B, can you now hear the tune of each instrument more precisely, can you follow the tune of a single instrument if I instantly stop the music.

Or:
Often earlier recordings of bands are more enjoyable than later ones even though they are quite often a poorer recording. Why, because when a band gets together they do it for fun and the love of playing and you hear this in their music. As the band matures, often this joy passes and commercialism sets in.

And this in relation to the thread:
Please listen via A/B in our dealers, but, please, please, make sure you get a home dem. Only then will you be truly sure as you put on track after track because the upgrade is so good you can't stop playing music with a grin as big as the Clyde all over your face. I insist all my dealers deliver the LP12 and CD12 to your home and set it up for you.

And lastly, some smartass tried to catch Ivor out by saying.

Well Mr Tiefenbrunn, how often do you listen to your system? Asked sarcastically.

To which Ivor smugly replied: oh I rarely listen to the system. Hah said the dumbass!
Ivor's retort was priceless, " But I listen to music very night!

[Charlie1]

Thanks for sharing that Flat. That's very kind of you to take the time. I love the analogy about picking a wife. He's right, you'd know straight away which to pick, although you might not be able to explain why.

CD12 was a very nice creation, both to look at and listen to. I recall Tony had two at one point, just in case there was a problem with the better sounding one. And then the KDS came along.

I've never thought the timing of digital music is better then vinyl but it could be I'm thinking of it in a slightly difference sense.

[beck]

To moog_man: Yes, early model LK100

[The FlatEarther]

You're very welcome. It's a real shame that Ivor retired.

[tokenbrit]

And this in relation to the thread:
Please listen via A/B in our dealers, but, please, please, make sure you get a home dem. Only then will you be truly sure as you put on track after track because the upgrade is so good you can't stop playing music with a grin as big as the Clyde all over your face. I insist all my dealers deliver the LP12 and CD12 to your home and set it up for you.

Not easy to do that in the States (unless I move to MI ;) Maybe that's part of the reason why Linn didn't do so well in the US...

[Charlie1]

It was never the same since Charlie Brennan left ..His demo's were legendary

Your hero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U59w0vBdLnw

I think he talks a lot of sense.

[macrotech2]

It was never the same since Charlie Brennan left ..His demo's were legendary

Your hero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U59w0vBdLnw

I think he talks a lot of sense.

Lots of interesting interviews there, including one with Gilad. More Series 5 to come apparently.

[beck]

Here is an example of what my system sounds like using Linn Black interconnect and no preamp recorded with my ipad.
Link removed!

[beck]

Lejonklou wrote:

"That said, if you analyse their characters in detail, not all the good things that Linn Blacks do are preserved in the Silvers. While most things are better in Silvers, there is an integrity of tone... Or perhaps it can be seen as a simplification of harmony, that... I'm sorry, I can't describe this. But my hope is that an even better interconnect can be made. So far, however, all my attempts in this department have failed!"


Carefully reading this again about Linn black and silver interconnects I realise that we hear the same thing but choose differently. I choose the "simple" sound because in my system listening to vinyl it enables me to listen the same way as when playing live or conducting.

I'm a bit slow but getting there! :-)

[beck]

I have recorded "Blackbird" by The Beatles from the mono recordings released a while ago using Linn silver and Linn black interconnects between my Linto and my LK100 to give you all insight into my decision using Linn black as my preferred interconnect.
It all comes down to me chasing a sound where the notes being played can "melt" together the same way as when listening to a live performance.

Listening below you can make up your own mind about what performance you like the most.

Links removed!

[Charlie1]

I find 1151 more of a single piece, like it's all more integrated together, although I could say it's more mashed up too.

I find with 1152 I want to listen to the music for longer. I can hear (and maybe even feel) some emotion in Paul's voice. The bass guitar struck me as particularly tuneful whereas nothing really struck me in 1151.

When I try to simultaneously follow the two guitars and Paul then it seems easier on 1152.

Based on this test, which I don't personally trust myself with, I'd go with 1152 as being more enjoyable.

They both sound surprisingly good considering I'm using a laptop and it was a recording of a recording.

Good fun, thanks! :)

[lejonklou]

I find it simply amazing that it's so easy to make comparisons with clips like these. Even telling two interconnects apart is almost as easy as when standing in the room. Sometimes it's even easier, as you can adjust the volume to your liking, stop, start and repeat as many times as you wish.

We have been using recorded clips extensively when tuning 3677. On filters, positions, torques and stands. Even when tuning the JBL subwoofer 4645C the clips have proven very easy to use - despite the fact that you can hardly hear any sounds from the subwoofer in the clips, because the microphone doesn't go that low. But there is still a strong sense of harmony in the clip when the subwoofer is tuned perfectly. When it's not, the little bass you can actually hear feels distracting and wrong.

1152 is clearly better. Not only does the emotion come through more convincingly, the instruments also sound more in tune. With 1151 the guitar needs tuning, Paul sings worse and the song is kind of flat.

Thank you beck!