Installation/acoustics
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Installation/acoustics
Here, you write that when you do installations you improve room acoustics. Can you tell us something about how you do that, or is that a "business secret"?
Hi Broccoli and welcome to the forum!
I would say that 95% of the work I do on installations is directly related to the system. From mains supply to speaker placement and everything in between. Most of the time, it sounds great after this is done. Often the room has been described as "difficult", but it has been the system that has underperformed.
Then there are the difficult cases... It can be bass notes exciting walls, windows, furniture etc and standing waves between parallel walls. This can usually be heard when playing music, but to find the exact locations I use test tones. Treatments can include stabilizing to change resonance frequency, filling cavities, relocating furniture if possible (not exactly invisble but sometimes effective). Other problems include excessive early reflections from walls, floor and ceiling. These can be damped with different methods, my favourite is bookshelves! Great sounding rooms often have a lot of books in them and this might be one of the reasons why ordinary livingrooms often sound a lot better than the demonstration rooms at hifi shops.
From time to time I get questions about how the ultimate room should look like, but I have problems answering that. Choosing the dimensions so that the standing waves become well distributed over the audible spectrum is a good approach. Using hard materials like concrete and stone often works well, wood sometimes works well and plaster walls are best avoided. But the thing is that rooms that are supposed to sound good, can sometimes be very boring. And rooms that appear to be a hopeless case can sometimes sound really terrific.
Two weeks ago I discussed this matter with Philip Hobbs (head of acoustic design at Linn - and a very nice guy by the way) and I asked him whether he had any recipe for the perfect room. He said he hadn't, but that he sometimes helps retailers improve their acoustics in the demonstration rooms. Lots of experience and a good amount of trial and error seems to do the trick.
I would say that 95% of the work I do on installations is directly related to the system. From mains supply to speaker placement and everything in between. Most of the time, it sounds great after this is done. Often the room has been described as "difficult", but it has been the system that has underperformed.
Then there are the difficult cases... It can be bass notes exciting walls, windows, furniture etc and standing waves between parallel walls. This can usually be heard when playing music, but to find the exact locations I use test tones. Treatments can include stabilizing to change resonance frequency, filling cavities, relocating furniture if possible (not exactly invisble but sometimes effective). Other problems include excessive early reflections from walls, floor and ceiling. These can be damped with different methods, my favourite is bookshelves! Great sounding rooms often have a lot of books in them and this might be one of the reasons why ordinary livingrooms often sound a lot better than the demonstration rooms at hifi shops.
From time to time I get questions about how the ultimate room should look like, but I have problems answering that. Choosing the dimensions so that the standing waves become well distributed over the audible spectrum is a good approach. Using hard materials like concrete and stone often works well, wood sometimes works well and plaster walls are best avoided. But the thing is that rooms that are supposed to sound good, can sometimes be very boring. And rooms that appear to be a hopeless case can sometimes sound really terrific.
Two weeks ago I discussed this matter with Philip Hobbs (head of acoustic design at Linn - and a very nice guy by the way) and I asked him whether he had any recipe for the perfect room. He said he hadn't, but that he sometimes helps retailers improve their acoustics in the demonstration rooms. Lots of experience and a good amount of trial and error seems to do the trick.
Thank you for the welcoming and for yor reply!
Interesting points, and too bad there is no easy way to know how to make your room acoustically better. Maybe I should move the books I have in the kitchen into the living room though...
I think my room may be pretty bad, very "boomy" with both plaster and concrete walls. I have a feeling my system could do better (simple LP12, Classik, Keilidh), although my dealer (Anders at Tonläget) has been here to install my stuff. Or maybe it's just the fact that your never satisfied with your equipment...
Interesting points, and too bad there is no easy way to know how to make your room acoustically better. Maybe I should move the books I have in the kitchen into the living room though...
I think my room may be pretty bad, very "boomy" with both plaster and concrete walls. I have a feeling my system could do better (simple LP12, Classik, Keilidh), although my dealer (Anders at Tonläget) has been here to install my stuff. Or maybe it's just the fact that your never satisfied with your equipment...
Maybe an upgrade on the LP12 would give your system a tighter sound? I also had some problems with boomy bass in my previous apartment, but after a number of upgrades the problems got less annoying. It is very likely though that your problem can only be fixed by acoustics. Try moving your set to a different wall, or move some more furniture to the room.Broccoli wrote:I think my room may be pretty bad, very "boomy" with both plaster and concrete walls. I have a feeling my system could do better (simple LP12, Classik, Keilidh), although my dealer (Anders at Tonläget) has been here to install my stuff. Or maybe it's just the fact that your never satisfied with your equipment...
I have split experience from sound damping equipment (such as acoustic plates for wall/ceiling), sometimes they not only remove boomy sound, but music aswell.
My best tip: Try upgrading your LP12 or start over with the stereo against a new wall.
/ jajo
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Music Lover
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Not really, better equipment reduce room-related issues YES but you should not have a boomy bass.Broccoli wrote:Or maybe it's just the fact that your never satisfied with your equipment...
Is the issue really BAD or just "I like to get it perfect"?
What did the dealer said re this?
And...
Is the boomy sound apparent on all bass frequencies?
Normally it's on just one/few and just on very high volume.
It's all about musical understanding!
Simple ways to treat room acoustics
I recently discovered, thanks to a friend, a very nice product to improve room acoustics. I would advise to browse the information on this website www.realtraps.com.
I had been very skeptical but after trying a few panels in my living room, it changed my listening experience in a very dramatic way. Just two panels helped with the base and opened up the sound. The system got so much more tuneful. If you can, I urge you to try these.
FYI: I have a full LP 12 (well before the keel and EKOS II), Kontrol preamp, akurate Ativ with 4 2250 amps.
I had been very skeptical but after trying a few panels in my living room, it changed my listening experience in a very dramatic way. Just two panels helped with the base and opened up the sound. The system got so much more tuneful. If you can, I urge you to try these.
FYI: I have a full LP 12 (well before the keel and EKOS II), Kontrol preamp, akurate Ativ with 4 2250 amps.
It turns out that I'm going to move to a new apartment in June, so I won't bother experimenting with placement before that. But then I'll definitely provide you with a drawing and ask for advice for where to put my system. Fortunately, the new apartment is without plaster walls, though it is smaller and asymmetric (which I've heard is actually a bad thing) due to a bedstead recess ("sovalkov" in Swedish).
My dealer didn't say anything special about the boominess or my room, though he did say that it probably would have been better with the speakers on the opposite wall, but that would not have been ideal for furnishing reasons. And now I'm moving anyway!
It's just like that, only a few frequencies at high volume. It's not really the boominess that is the problem (since I rarely play loud anyway), just the general sound quality that I'm not really pleased with.Music Lover wrote: Is the issue really BAD or just "I like to get it perfect"?
What did the dealer said re this?
And...
Is the boomy sound apparent on all bass frequencies?
Normally it's on just one/few and just on very high volume.
My dealer didn't say anything special about the boominess or my room, though he did say that it probably would have been better with the speakers on the opposite wall, but that would not have been ideal for furnishing reasons. And now I'm moving anyway!
Hello again,
Now I've moved, and the sound is a lot better! No plaster walls, only concrete and wood.
As promised, here's a drawing of my new apartment:
Click to make it bigger!
The squares with the "S" inside are of course the speakers.
I can't think of any other realistic place to put the speakers but wall 1, can you?
Now I've moved, and the sound is a lot better! No plaster walls, only concrete and wood.
As promised, here's a drawing of my new apartment:
Click to make it bigger!
The squares with the "S" inside are of course the speakers.
I can't think of any other realistic place to put the speakers but wall 1, can you?