New IsobariK speaker?

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-05-18 19:53

Thanks for the detailed info.

I assume the silver 2K pod won't be available in black this time either... which is a pity as I suspect the speaker will look best in black ash. Visually the proportions seem all wrong to me, but if it sounds really good, I will probably try to like it anyway.

My guess is that within a year or so, we'll see the 242 being replaced. Or perhaps the 350 first?

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2011-05-18 20:22

lejonklou wrote:Thanks for the detailed info.

I assume the silver 2K pod won't be available in black this time either... which is a pity as I suspect the speaker will look best in black ash. Visually the proportions seem all wrong to me, but if it sounds really good, I will probably try to like it anyway.

My guess is that within a year or so, we'll see the 242 being replaced. Or perhaps the 350 first?

Certainly no mention of a black pod option in the lit so it seems unlikely, unfortunately. It is hard for me to say how it will look in person as the photos make it look like it is almost square but the dimensions shows it to be over 4" deeper than it is wide. It will be a bit deeper than a 242 and a more than a bit wider. I have learned from car magazines that what something looks like in the flesh and what it looks like in photos can be two very different things so I will wait to see them before making any comments on looks.

It is interesting to speculate where the rest of the speaker range will go from here and where the changes will happen first. I wouldn't be surprised if you were right. A 242 that goes down to 49Hz at twice the price of the MIso going to 28Hz doesn't seem like a sustainable position long term.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-05-19 08:30

I can understand replacing the 242s, but 350s have their own means of delivering good quality deep bass or do you guys suspect Isobarik would be even better? I guess Isobarik Klimax speakers could avoid a lot of complication (i.e. internal amp etc)

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2011-05-19 09:27

ThomasOK wrote:[A 242 that goes down to 49Hz at twice the price of the MIso going to 28Hz doesn't seem like a sustainable position long term.

The freq. specs says nothing about the performance. (quality, quantity and the lowest notes reproduced)
The current A242 version is according to me Linn's best speaker.
Never liked mkI, mkII was ok, mkIII (for me this is 242s produced 2010 summer or later) is great.
mkIII isn't official BUT something is better with speakers produced late 2010.

mkIII with the new base is now seriously good. If you can live with the limitation in dynamics and SLAM that is.

I have no doubt Majik Isobarik offer the SLAM and dynamics I always missed in 242 but for me the total performance is the important aspect.

Regarding Akurate and Klimax replacements , I doubt Linn R/D has the bandwidth to run many parallel speaker projects so don't expect something new anytime soon.
And...I prefer if Linn focus on a Komri replacement speaker as all current Linn speakers have there own limitations.
What we need is a new reference speaker that makes you breathless like Bricks, Keltiks and Komri have in the past!!!

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2011-05-19 17:10

Overall I pretty much agree with all that. (OK, I won't go so far to say the 242 is Linn's best speaker myself as I haven't heard the Klimax 350.)

Certainly the frequency response specs tell you nothing about the quality of bass and since they give no + or - dB range they are really virtually worthless. Nonetheless they do give some indication of how low the speaker goes and it is obvious the 242 is not a bass monster. Also one would hope that the Isobarik loading has been applied well enough to provide bass of a pretty high quality.

All of this is really conjecture until we actually hear these things and I certainly don't expect the MIso to overall outperform the 242. Still if they do manage to embarrass the the 242 in the bass, in virtually any manner, it will not help 242 sales.

I would be rather surprised if Linn weren't currently involved in the design of a Komri replacement. This has been rumored for some time and only makes sense. If the work is typical of Linn engineering they will have started with a clean sheet and are trying various drivers, loading systems, cabinet designs, etc. in effort to make the best speaker possible with current technology. There have been comments on the Linn forum that an Isobarik/Servo bass system has been experimented with so obviously research is being carried out. Since Linn tend to design their statement product (Isobarik, Keltik, Komri, KK, Solo, KDS, etc.) and then trickle down the technology they develop, it wouldn't be surprising if a 242 replacement didn't appear until after the Komri replacement.

While I am posting I need to add some new information that has come to light and make a correction to something I posted above. It turns out that the midrange driver on the MIso is NOT ported as I thought it was from the photo. It is in its own sealed sub-enclosure. Also the Aktiv crossover cards for it are all completely different from the M109 and M140 cards. It turns out that the wider front baffle and the differences in driver loading and reflections it caused, plus the sealed midrange, required a reworking of the crossover to achieve proper performance. Linn says the tonal balance and imaging were wrong without the crossover changes. It has also been stated that the plinth is not metal. Linn feel that it is less necessary as the downward-facing Isobarik woofers cause less cabinet wobble. However, they do say that research is ongoing so a metal plinth could come about in the future if it is found to provide a significant benefit.

j22928 · Post by **j22928** » 2011-06-20 23:53

Has anyone in the US heard the MIsos?

k_numigl · Post by **k_numigl** » 2011-08-27 09:06

lejonklou wrote: Visually the proportions seem all wrong to me, but if it sounds really good, I will probably try to like it anyway.

I went to a dealer last week, and unfortunately, it does look as described.
As I personally feel the 3k array to be such a great improvement over the
2k that I don't want to miss it, I'm not tempted.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-08-27 10:30

I've still not heard the Misos myself, but according to about a dozen quite experienced enthusiasts that I've spoken to, they are a disappointment.

Interestingly, nobody seems to like the bass, which is funny since it's the main feature of the Misos.

rock&roll · Post by **rock&roll** » 2011-08-27 22:48

It might be a setup issue, but I've heard MIsos both in our room and clients rooms. I have pair with Aktiv Bass and second Fully Aktiv. IMHO new Isobariks are marvelous. I've tried them with Majik and Akurate electronics. For me, they sound a bit like Majik 109 but will bass that is way better than those from Majik 140. It's a bit different in a feeling, and sounds more like two perfectly setup subwoofer under a monitor speakers, but I cannot find a thing not to like. They remind me of things that Keltik could do but with a little more fun when listening to music.

MIsos are not that hard to tune into a room, mostly because of unusual woofer placement, but still 2K Array and mid-woofer need some refined positioning and toe-in to sound great.

I haven't heard them passive only, so maybe from this comes any negative feedback. IMHO MIsos is a step in a good direction any many older Linnies that was put off by sometimes too dry presentation or not so good lowest bass can finaly have speaker in mid-price that makes real replacement for Espek and Keltik.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-08-28 21:47

Thanks for the report, R&R!

Guess I've got to listen to them myself.

hcl · Post by **hcl** » 2011-08-29 15:57

rock&roll wrote:It might be a setup issue, but I've heard MIsos both in our room and clients rooms. I have pair with Aktiv Bass and second Fully Aktiv. IMHO new Isobariks are marvelous. I've tried them with Majik and Akurate electronics. For me, they sound a bit like Majik 109 but will bass that is way better than those from Majik 140. It's a bit different in a feeling, and sounds more like two perfectly setup subwoofer under a monitor speakers, but I cannot find a thing not to like. They remind me of things that Keltik could do but with a little more fun when listening to music.

MIsos are not that hard to tune into a room, mostly because of unusual woofer placement, but still 2K Array and mid-woofer need some refined positioning and toe-in to sound great.

I haven't heard them passive only, so maybe from this comes any negative feedback. IMHO MIsos is a step in a good direction any many older Linnies that was put off by sometimes too dry presentation or not so good lowest bass can finaly have speaker in mid-price that makes real replacement for Espek and Keltik.

Interesting! It seems there are opinions both ways with alot more positive reports for MIsos driven partly or fully active.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-08-29 21:18

As Linn these days first develop their speakers with an aktiv filter, and later make a passive filter to suit the design, it seems likely they can sometimes end up with passive filters that are difficult to tune.

rock&roll · Post by **rock&roll** » 2011-08-29 23:38

hcl wrote:Interesting! It seems there are opinions both ways with alot more positive reports for MIsos driven partly or fully active.

Today I organized two demos of partialy Aktiv MIsos. Both customers liked them very much. For what? In just one word - musicality. :) MIsos can play classic, jazz and heavy rock with ease.

If anyone can, I would also advise to listen to quite new product from Linn - Sekrit IW10 inwall speakers. They don't have 2K Array, but sound very, very interesting. They are by far the best custom installation speakers I have ever heard.

hcl · Post by **hcl** » 2011-09-01 06:53

lejonklou wrote:As Linn these days first develop their speakers with an aktiv filter, and later make a passive filter to suit the design, it seems likely they can sometimes end up with passive filters that are difficult to tune.

Seems likely. Have you any ide for how long they have been having this approach? With a speaker with such a low cross over frequency, between the bottom driver and the upp bass/mid, as the Misos probably have, this approach is likely to require an exceptional passive filter.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-09-01 23:10

hcl wrote:Have you any ide for how long they have been having this approach?

No, I don't know for how long. Only that the current loudspeaker team claim they use that approach. Probably logical if you're aiming for a good aktiv speaker, but if you aim to make the best possible passive speaker I'm not sure whether it's the best approach.

hcl · Post by **hcl** » 2011-09-02 19:33

lejonklou wrote:
hcl wrote:Have you any ide for how long they have been having this approach?
No, I don't know for how long. Only that the current loudspeaker team claim they use that approach. Probably logical if you're aiming for a good aktiv speaker, but if you aim to make the best possible passive speaker I'm not sure whether it's the best approach.

Probably true.

If and when the compromise is rather obvious, such is apparent with the Misos I think it would be fair to market the speaker as an active or partly active speaker with the option of being driven fully passive. It seems this is what is happeing at many dealers anyway. I think this is not a big problem as long as people listen to the products and makes well informed choises.

I have to go and have a listen to the partly active Misos at my delaers. I am told they are performing rather good. As a former owner of the original Isobarik I have a soft spot for the naim :-)

anthony · Post by **anthony** » 2011-09-03 23:51

lejonklou wrote:
hcl wrote:Have you any ide for how long they have been having this approach?
No, I don't know for how long. Only that the current loudspeaker team claim they use that approach. Probably logical if you're aiming for a good aktiv speaker, but if you aim to make the best possible passive speaker I'm not sure whether it's the best approach.

I have heard Miso passive sounding very good.

As I prefer solos and 350P to 350A, designed aktivly initially, I would therefore defend Linns passive crossovers!
Same applies for 242 Akurate aktiv vs solos passive.

rock&roll · Post by **rock&roll** » 2011-09-04 11:20

hcl,

Aktiv Bass MIsos are large step from passive. This is the reason, that most retailers have demo MIsos partially Aktiv. As Majik DS-I and Majik-I can accommodate Aktiv cards it's a lot easier to upgrade simply by adding Majik 2100 or Majik 6100.

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2011-09-08 18:12

I am thinking of changing my amps next year to 2250's. Would they be a lot better than c2100 / majik 2100? And do you think they'd be a good choice for active Ninka until I could afford M'ISOS? Cheers.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-09-08 22:36

Ozzzy189 wrote:I am thinking of changing my amps next year to 2250's. Would they be a lot better than c2100 / majik 2100?

No, I think the 2100 is better. 2250 is more powerful and can sound impressive, but it's less musical than the 2100.

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2011-09-09 07:35

Interesting, that's a bit of a tricky one, comparing the two!

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-09-09 10:16

Ozzzy189 wrote:Interesting, that's a bit of a tricky one, comparing the two!

You should be able to get a 2nd hand 4200 for well under £2k, although it will probably be out of warranty. Mine was £1,600 (without Dynamik) and just over 5 years old. A good match for Ninkas and, looking forward, a neat option for Miso's (i.e. aktiv bass). Might be worth saving up for...

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2011-09-09 10:46

There's a 4200 for sale on this forum (http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1011). Non dynamik, but the price may be negotiable around that.

Nothing to do with me beyond the fact that I sold my old ADS to the guy who's selling the 4200.

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2011-09-09 14:38

Cheers, but I really need an exotik first!

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2011-09-09 14:41

For future reference, would a 4200 be enough to run ninkas bi activ? Would it be worth adding a 2200 later on? Or maybe stick with a 4200 until the ninkas have to go and then I'd know for sure how many channels i'd need.