Network Issues (was: Källa loses IP addresses)

[Hermann]

I've noticed this three times so far. The streamer plays smoothly all the time. But every now and then I look at the Webpage, especially when it needs to be switched off like yesterday during a really great thunderstorm. I noticed that all 4 values had to be re-entered and IP configuration is set to DHCP. The streamer always gets a dedicated IP address outside the fixed IP range from the router and ofcource is addressed that way.

Why is this happening?

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[springwood64]

Are you sure that kallas IP address is not inside the range that the router uses for DHCP? It's possible that the address has been used by DHCP for another device while kalla is disconnected.

[lejonklou]

The only time this has happened to me is when the power has been out, and/or when I’ve restarted the digital parts (Källa, router and switch) and I’ve switched them all on at the same time.

Because then what happens is that Källa boots rather quickly and the switch later and the router last. Källa asks to be recognised by the router and gets no response (because switch and router are still starting up). Then Källa reverts to DHCP, which is after a while granted by the router, once it’s started up.

The result is that everything works, but the fixed IP setting of Källa is lost.

[Hermann]

IP address is definitely outside the range covered by DHCP springwood64. Even if the message comes, the web interface can be addressed via the dedicated IP address.

This is of course a plausible explanation Fredrik, thank you. The repeaters are also switched off and are obviously online later than Källa. The Netgear GS308T also takes a long time to boot. I'll keep an eye on the turn-on order next time.

[jajo]

This is a protection feature that will ensure that the connection to Källa web interface is not lost even if invalid network settings are entered. When Källa boots up, it makes an attempt to connect to the router using the ICMP protocol. If this connection fails, it assumes that the manual network settings are incorrect and reverts back to DHCP. If this feature did not exist and a user mistyped one of the network settings, it would be possible that they got locked out from using the web interface completely.

When Källa reverts back to DHCP, you will hear a special startup sound instead of the regular "I'm awake, all is fine" tune.

Källa will never revert back to DHCP during operation, only at boot. Make sure all your network equipment is up and running before powering on Källa.

[Hermann]

Thanks for the further background jajo. The day before yesterday I was able to check it because in the middle of the night a huge thunderstorm swept over us. It is too unsafe for me if the system remains switched on in these weather conditions.

[u252agz]

The following post and ensuing discussion was moved here from the Recommended network components thread.
-Moderator

Quick question regarding one of my Netgear GS 108T switches.

On my Kalla downnstairs - I keep losing the Kalla on the network overnight, and have to turn off and on again the GS 108T.

This was happening on my previous GS 108 T until it packed up completely. However this is a new unit and after a honeymoon period of two weeks or so the same thing is happening.

My upstairs Kalla has another GS 108 T and has never missed a beat.

Both mesh units have good connection although the downstairs unit occasionally says good as opposed to excellent connection.

Any ideas about what might be going on ?

[tokenbrit]

Quick question regarding one of my Netgear GS 108T switches.

On my Kalla downnstairs - I keep losing the Kalla on the network overnight, and have to turn off and on again the GS 108T.

This was happening on my previous GS 108 T until it packed up completely. However this is a new unit and after a honeymoon period of two weeks or so the same thing is happening.

My upstairs Kalla has another GS 108 T and has never missed a beat.

Both mesh units have good connection although the downstairs unit occasionally says good as opposed to excellent connection.

Any ideas about what might be going on ?

Do you have static IP addresses assigned to your 108Ts?

Depending on the features of your router, you could reserve specific IPs for each in the DHCP server settings. Alternatively, and my preference, you can set a static IP on each 108T - be sure to choose IPs outside the DHCP reserved address range...

If it's not something you're doing already, maybe try it & see if that helps. Otherwise, are both 108Ts on the same firmware and with same settings? Likewise, does each 108T connect to its mesh unit in the same way?

[springwood64]

That could be a network address conflict. Some other device could be obtaining Kalla's address.

I had similar behaviour with a logitech harmony - it would disappear from the network intermittently. I eventually discovered that one of the routers on my network was enabled as a DHCP server, in conflict with my gateway router, serving addresses from an overlapping range. I disabled this and my network issues ceased.

If you have multiple routers on the network, check that only one of them is a DHCP server.

[u252agz]

Thanks guys

I wish I understood a little bit more about networks - I’m always impressed with the knowledge base on the forum.

I only have one router but two wi fis , one provided by the virgin router and the other by my BT mesh units , which my Kallas connect to .
I’m not sure what the ‘DHCP reserved address range’ is - so not confident about choosing IPs outside this. How do I find out the reserved range.

I remembered my upstairs Switch is a GS308T by the way and not 108T - not sure if this explains anything.

[tokenbrit]

Thanks guys

I wish I understood a little bit more about networks - I’m always impressed with the knowledge base on the forum.

I only have one router but two wi fis , one provided by the virgin router and the other by my BT mesh units , which my Kallas connect to .
I’m not sure what the ‘DHCP reserved address range’ is - so not confident about choosing IPs outside this. How do I find out the reserved range.

I remembered my upstairs Switch is a GS308T by the way and not 108T - not sure if this explains anything.

As springwood64 said more clearly than me, it sounds like IP address conflict: (one of?) your BT mesh units, and your virgin router are both set as DHCP servers. Don't worry about reserved addresses at the mo - just log into your mesh units and make sure that they both have DHCP server disabled; only your Virgin router should have DHCP server enabled.

308 v 108 should make no difference.

[springwood64]

When a device such as Källa connects to a network it uses an IP address to identify itself on the network, and to send and receive the TCP/IP packets that form the base for most network communication.

A device can either use a preconfigured address (a 'static' address), or it can ask a DHCP server, which will offer the device an address from within a range of addresses that are reserved by that server for DHCP requests.

Typically your internet provider router is also a DHCP server, but most routers can also act as a DHCP server. This is usually a feature that you can configure in the administration interface of each router.

Conflicts can occur if a device is using a static address within the range of the DHCP server. If a device uses a static address, the DHCP server won't identify the address as in use, and if that address is within its range, it could be offered to another device that asks via DHCP.

Alternatively, if more than one router offers DHCP services, then more than one device asking for an address may be given the same address.

TCP/IP packets are only delivered to one address, so if two or more devices on the network have the same address, one of those devices will not receive packets and will appear unconnected.

[u252agz]

Thanks again ,

I’ve done some investigating - out of my comfort zone , but I pressed on.

My BT Mesh units do not function as routers and do not ascribe IP addresses to any devices. I logged into the units to confirm and checked with the technical dept.

However in the virgin Hub router I can see only one of the Kallas ( named Kalla with its static IP - the one connected to the GS308.)

Even though I can see the 108T switch on the network - I can’t see the unit which is named ‘Lejonklou’ ( with its own static IP address.

On Spotify I can see both , but only when the switch has been recently switched on - after a few hrs it drops off, leaving the one named Kalla!

Interestingly on the mesh interface both units have the same name - Lejonklou -Kalla even though the IP addresses are different.

Could it be a naming issue Ie the network seeing both units as the same device?

Grateful for any tips .

[tokenbrit]

Easy(?) to try:
Rename one Kalla see if the problem goes away
(they do have different reserved IPs, don't they?)

If that doesn't resolve it
Swap the switches see if the problem stays with the 108

[u252agz]

Good idea - I will try the renaming.

Now that I am getting over my irrational fears of going ' user menus' on these devices I should be able to do this without my breathing becoming too rapid and my palms sweating.

This is the second 108T I have tried downstairs. I cant remember if I have already tried to swap the two 308/108T but no harm in trying again.

I could also hook up one of my sneakys on to this 108T and see if it this is visible on the network.

I'm hoping Fredrik and his team might have some ideas whether the names of the two units can be a issue with the system.

Thanks for your input again.

[Sopper]

Name could not be an issue
They have unique MAC-address
But never hurts to rename one

[tokenbrit]

You could try changing the reserved IP on the disappearing Kalla... Try something ending between .200 & .250

[lejonklou]

Names can be an issue, if they’re identical.

[u252agz]

I’ll double check the names are as I had set them up :

017 was left as the original ‘ Lejonklou’ with a fixed IP address .200

020 was set up as ‘Kalla’ fixed IP address .222

I noted yesterday my router’s DHCP is giving out addresses right up to and beyond the ones above - yesterday one device had .236.

If I get this sorted - everyone gets a beer from me!

Now that TM3s have transformed my system , even the two minute delay in unplugging and re plugging the GS108T every evening I want to listen is testing my patience,

[Sopper]

Set fixed ip outside range or adjust the range of dhcp

[springwood64]

As Sopper says, I suggest that you set the DHCP range so you can configure the static addresses outside that range.

If static addresses are included in the range used for DHCP, there is definitely a risk that the router will assign one of the static addresses to another device.

In my network, I set my DHCP range to 100-253 (my router is 254).

All my music devices I configure with static addresses I have chosen from the range 30-39.

Another step I take to protect against addresses changing is I also tell the router to use 'reserved' addresses for my music devices. These are the same values for each device as the static address, and the router checks the device MAC address to look up the IP address.

For example my Hakai has a static address of .31, and the router also has a reserved address of .31 against the Hakai MAC address. This means that even should the Hakai lose its static configuration, the router will tell it to use .31

[u252agz]

Thanks again everyone.

I will have to take a deep breath and psyche myself up for adjusting the routers DHCP range ,

Going back into the Kallas and setting fixed IP addresses above 250, ( perhaps .300 and .333, ) so as not to clash, would be easier, as I can follow the ' instructions for beginners' that is available on the forum.

I am hoping that I don't have to fix IP addresses for the two Mesh units and netgear Switches as I would not where to start.

[springwood64]

Going back into the Kallas and setting fixed IP addresses above 250, ( perhaps .300 and .333, ) so as not to clash, would be easier, as I can follow the ' instructions for beginners' that is available on the forum.

Max address is 254, which may already be used by your router.

You only need 2, so how about 251 and 252?

[springwood64]

I am hoping that I don't have to fix IP addresses for the two Mesh units and netgear Switches as I would not where to start.

No, you don't have to do that.

[matthias]

In my network, I set my DHCP range to 100-253 (my router is 254).
All my music devices I configure with static addresses I have chosen from the range 30-39.

Another vote for such an arrangement, mine is very similar.
What works best for me is: "Using DHCP with manual address".