Network Issues (was: Källa loses IP addresses)

[tokenbrit]

.. I will have to take a deep breath and psyche myself up for adjusting the router...

Has anyone heard from u252agz? Hopefully the 'radio silence' is because he's busy enjoying his Kallas, and not because he's locked himself out of the Internet... o_0

[matthias]

.. I will have to take a deep breath and psyche myself up for adjusting the router...

Has anyone heard from u252agz? Hopefully the 'radio silence' is because he's busy enjoying his Kallas, and not because he's locked himself out of the Internet... o_0

Maybe to start a rescue attempt?

[tokenbrit]

I was really more motivated by this :D

If I get this sorted - everyone gets a beer from me!

[u252agz]

Still in the rabbit hole - but mercifully no collateral damage - yet.

Changing names didn’t work - but did remind me that it is only the Kalla with firmware v19 which allows this and not the standard v16!

Changing the IP addresses to ‘ out of the range of my other devices (. I used .250 and .251) did not work.

What is really irritating us that the Virgin router ‘connected devices’ often misses devices that are clearly connected and available. And to rub salt into the wounds- The DHCP page sometimes shows devices that are not on the ‘connected devices’ page and vice Versa.

Not easy to set the DHCP range in the settings - can’t find this option - it allows one to ‘reserve Ip adressss’ though - by selecting the device it populates the MAC address and IP address and then one presses the ‘add reserve rule’ icon.

In two minds whether to do this - although none of my Kallas is showing on the ‘attached devices ‘ even though Spotify sees and plays them - Aaargh!

I’ve tried switching the two Netgear switches for now - let’s see how long the two Kallas stay available. Working for the last 8 hours.

The only good thing about this is that I have conquered my fears of going into all these devices and my pulse rate remains rock steady.

So I’m not giving up anytime soon.

[tokenbrit]

Still in the rabbit hole - but mercifully no collateral damage - yet.

Changing names didn’t work - but did remind me that it is only the Kalla with firmware v19 which allows this and not the standard v16!

Changing the IP addresses to ‘ out of the range of my other devices (. I used .250 and .251) did not work.

What is really irritating us that the Virgin router ‘connected devices’ often misses devices that are clearly connected and available. And to rub salt into the wounds- The DHCP page sometimes shows devices that are not on the ‘connected devices’ page and vice Versa.

Not easy to set the DHCP range in the settings - can’t find this option - it allows one to ‘reserve Ip adressss’ though - by selecting the device it populates the MAC address and IP address and then one presses the ‘add reserve rule’ icon.

In two minds whether to do this - although none of my Kallas is showing on the ‘attached devices ‘ even though Spotify sees and plays them - Aaargh!

I’ve tried switching the two Netgear switches for now - let’s see how long the two Kallas stay available. Working for the last 8 hours.

The only good thing about this is that I have conquered my fears of going into all these devices and my pulse rate remains rock steady.

So I’m not giving up anytime soon.

Good news for the most part, except for the Virgin router... The important thing about rabbit holes is being able to find your way back out, on your own or with the help of friends.

That the Virgin router is inconsistent about reporting attached devices is not a good sign. If there isn't an option to restrict the range of addresses given out by DHCP, so that your static IPs on each Kalla are outside the range, then the next best thing is to reserve the same IP addresses on the router as you have set on each Kalla. This is easier & less prone to error if you can time it when the Virgin router shows them as connected, as it will populate the correct MAC addresses for you. Importantly it should prevent the DHCP service from giving those IPs to any other devices...

Odd that switching the 108 & 308 should help, but good if it does. Keep us updated, definitely don't give up, and keep asking for help as needed :)

[u252agz]

Thanks for the advice and support-really appreciated - I would never dare to any of this tinkering without it.

Although I am in the rabbit hole , as yet I’m not going continuing to go down it and. always see a way out.

I’ll do as you suggest and reserve the addresses for the Kallas as soon as they pop up on the DHCP page of the router.

I can at least get in there in my sleep now and marvel at how this little box actually keeps my devices connected - even though it does not always admit to it.

The good thing, I suppose is that I always have the Kallas available - but want to get rid of having to in plug and re plug the network switch when one #017 drops off the network.

[matthias]

Not easy to set the DHCP range in the settings - can’t find this option -

With a Vodafone Station it is like:
Settings > LAN > IPv4 > DHCP Server Parameters > Address Pool Start IP, Address Pool End IP

[tokenbrit]

Which "Virgin router" do you have - is it the Hub 5? There are quite a few Virgin forum posts about the Hub 5 being poor as a router, with similar DHCP vagaries as you describe, but decent as a modem. You might want to consider investing in a new home router, and leave your Virgin one to modem duties only, if possible.

[springwood64]

A reliable app for finding out what is connected to your network is Network Analyzer (free version). On android it is https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... zerlite.an

This actually scans your network (choose the LAN scan option) and will usually see connected devices. It will report name, MAC address, IP address and the main services on each device.

[springwood64]

Which "Virgin router" do you have - is it the Hub 5? There are quite a few Virgin forum posts about the Hub 5 being poor as a router, with similar DHCP vagaries as you describe, but decent as a modem. You might want to consider investing in a new home router, and leave your Virgin one to modem duties only, if possible.

The Ubiquity Amplifi HD is the best router I've used. I have a mix of TP-Link and Netgear routers as well. The Ubiquity seems very easy to set up and live with, and has a very good admin app. We use Ubiquity Amplifi devices at work too, as it's the preferred gear for my Operations guys.

[u252agz]

Which "Virgin router" do you have - is it the Hub 5? There are quite a few Virgin forum posts about the Hub 5 being poor as a router, with similar DHCP vagaries as you describe, but decent as a modem. You might want to consider investing in a new home router, and leave your Virgin one to modem duties only, if possible.

I have Virgin Hub 3,0. If i get a new router do I keep the Virgin Hub 3.0 and let it provide the internet access to the 'new router' ? Please don't despair of my ignorance around networks and routers - Im doing my best!

At the moment my 6 BT Mesh units provide wifi for most of the house but i need the wifi from Virgin for the Sky Q boxes which are not compatible with BT!

After a period of calm, this talk of a new router is beginning to make my pulse quicken and I am feeling the beginnings of a cold sweat developing.

On a different note,after a 24hr period of hope and tranquility, Kalla ±020 ( now linked to the GS 108T ) dropped off the network - so I am wondering if it is the 108T and my BT mesh units which don't click. The previous switch causing a problem was also a 108T, before it packed up altogether.

So I have switched the new 108T with the 9relatively new) 108 switch, which is Cat 5 linked to the Virgin router and my 3 sneakys ( with Cat5) - lets see how the Kallas ( and snakes) get on with this version of musical chairs.

Still waiting for the DHCP settings to recognise my Kallas so i can click and reserve the IP addresses,

[u252agz]

Which "Virgin router" do you have - is it the Hub 5? There are quite a few Virgin forum posts about the Hub 5 being poor as a router, with similar DHCP vagaries as you describe, but decent as a modem. You might want to consider investing in a new home router, and leave your Virgin one to modem duties only, if possible.

The Ubiquity Amplifi HD is the best router I've used. I have a mix of TP-Link and Netgear routers as well. The Ubiquity seems very easy to set up and live with, and has a very good admin app. We use Ubiquity Amplifi devices at work too, as it's the preferred gear for my Operations guys.

Thanks - I did look into Ubiquity when it was still available but was not confident it would cover the whole house - at the moment I require 6 BT mesh units to do this.

If I really can't sort out the issue - i will look into Ubiquity again - is it available in Europe?

I will also try the Network analyser if there is a version for apple.

[tokenbrit]

I have Virgin Hub 3,0. If i get a new router do I keep the Virgin Hub 3.0 and let it provide the internet access to the 'new router' ? Please don't despair of my ignorance around networks and routers - Im doing my best!

At the moment my 6 BT Mesh units provide wifi for most of the house but i need the wifi from Virgin for the Sky Q boxes which are not compatible with BT!

After a period of calm, this talk of a new router is beginning to make my pulse quicken and I am feeling the beginnings of a cold sweat developing.

On a different note,after a 24hr period of hope and tranquility, Kalla ±020 ( now linked to the GS 108T ) dropped off the network - so I am wondering if it is the 108T and my BT mesh units which don't click. The previous switch causing a problem was also a 108T, before it packed up altogether.

So I have switched the new 108T with the 9relatively new) 108 switch, which is Cat 5 linked to the Virgin router and my 3 sneakys ( with Cat5) - lets see how the Kallas ( and snakes) get on with this version of musical chairs.

Still waiting for the DHCP settings to recognise my Kallas so i can click and reserve the IP addresses,

IF you were to get a new router, yes you'd keep the Hub 3 as long as you could put it in modem mode, but then you'd lose the wifi for your Sky Q bxs, unless the Q bxs are compatible with the new router... Maybe it's deliberate on the part of Sky, BT & Virgin to mess with each other :?

Yes, I did worry that a new router might cause a panic attack - that's why it was only a suggestion :)

Curious that a second 108T would go the same way as the first... There's no obvious reason other than age, but it's still suspicious. If the 108 behaves, maybe a second 308T is worth it, instead of a router, as long as that doesn't raise heart rate or blood pressure except through the musical experience ;)

[u252agz]

Yes - I was thinking along the same lines.

If the 108 keeps Kalla #020 on the network and the 308T and #017 hit it off - then a second 308T might be the best option for now. It did work without issues for months with #020.

I know my physician ( if I had one) would definitely prescribe this for me on both mental and physical health grounds.

The issue with changing routers is the compatibility with the Sky boxes - this has the potential to cause serious marital and family discord.
I can’t even bear to think of the fall out and the words ‘ and all because you could not be bothered to unplug and re plug that little black box’ ringing in my ears.

Is there a ranking of the current Netgear switches according to model?

[u252agz]

So far so good - 308T keeping its connection with Kalla #017 and 108 with Kallla #020.

And the 108T v3 working fine with the cat 5 cables to my sneakys.

Lets hope this is the end of my network issues.

Thanks for all the advice and help - its been very helpful to understand how the routers work and I am now very happy to go into all the settings and check everything from time to time.

Its just a shame the Virgin Hub 3.0 is so limited in its functionality and also a little flaky with its ability to list all the devices on the network. An even bigger shame it does not seem to want to reserve any of the IP addresses when it eventually decides to list it on the DHCP page.

Still everything working well, sounding even better, and no members of the family complaining about my ( lack of) IT skills .

[springwood64]

Its just a shame the Virgin Hub 3.0 is so limited in its functionality and also a little flaky with its ability to list all the devices on the network. An even bigger shame it does not seem to want to reserve any of the IP addresses when it eventually decides to list it on the DHCP page.

Still everything working well, sounding even better, and no members of the family complaining about my ( lack of) IT skills .

Great to hear that it is all working better now.

Most of the routers I have used are unable to reliably list all the currently connected devices, though the Ubiquity seems better than the others I have used, so I suspect it is doing something differently.

I dont know for sure, but I guess that the reason most routers don't always list all the connected devices is that they only know a device is connected when it contacts the router, either for an address request (when the device first connects) or for a DNS request (to get the IP address corresponding to a web URL).

The scanning app is different - it systematically goes through all the possible addresses and tries to connect to standard services (such as HTTP/HTTPS) on each address, thus it will normally always discover all connected devices.

[u252agz]

Final update (hopefully) on my network issues

Everything is working well and after a three days of being away, all my streamers are still on the system.

The new 108T v3 seems fine connected by Cat 5 to my router and the Sneaky DS units.

So the problem has been two successive Netgear 108T v3 units which did could not keep the connection with my network via the Mesh unit and needed repeatedly rebooting.

So either I have been unlucky with these two faulty 108T v3 units or there is a problem with all 108T V3 units when used with BT mesh units in the way that I use them ( recommended set up for Kalla).


I have had this problem before- replacing a faulty device with a new one, only to find the new one being defective as well. It last happened with a component of our heating system and caused no end of diagnostic problems and head scratching until a third device sorted the issue.

[tokenbrit]

Final update (hopefully) on my network issues

Everything is working well and after a three days of being away, all my streamers are still on the system.

The new 108T v3 seems fine connected by Cat 5 to my router and the Sneaky DS units.

So the problem has been two successive Netgear 108T v3 units which did could not keep the connection with my network via the Mesh unit and needed repeatedly rebooting.

So either I have been unlucky with these two faulty 108T v3 units or there is a problem with all 108T V3 units when used with BT mesh units in the way that I use them ( recommended set up for Kalla).


I have had this problem before- replacing a faulty device with a new one, only to find the new one being defective as well. It last happened with a component of our heating system and caused no end of diagnostic problems and head scratching until a third device sorted the issue.

Odd that two 108Ts should misbehave like that - maybe a firmware problem? - but great that you got it sorted.

[u252agz]

Thanks - these minor network issues are like a small stone in ones shoes -they create an inconvenience far greater than the actual discomfort.

It was not a big deal to reboot the switch - but knowing that I should not have to be doing this was getting to be more and more infuriating.

I suppose we all take for granted now just how well these systems work nowadays and getting more and more intolerant to glitches.

It’s so good to have the help available on the forum - I know very few people ( either socially or at work) who even know what a network is, let alone DHCP protocols.