Must say, I did a big comparison last night between Tidal, which was my default for a long time and really never bothered to change anything, with Apple Music and Spotify, and was swept of my chair by a very simple conclusion, Tidal is musically as boring as it can get.... was quite shocked actually

Even my wife, who is a real sceptic in these topics "she doesn't hear these things she keep repeating", in a full blind comparison, all the time Tidal was at the bottom of the pack... Apple Music was also very good, but real "foot tapping action' became a thing on itself with Spotify (off course with all correct settings as written in this topic), never expected this......

Later my wife switched between the 3 services so I could test blind, and again you could easily pick out Spotify as the best and Tidal as the worst.... great effort! :)

Mitmu wrote: ↑2023-03-31 12:39 Later my wife switched between the 3 services so I could test blind, and again you could easily pick out Spotify as the best and Tidal as the worst.... great effort! :)

Thanks for sharing, would be interesting how Qobuz rank in this competition.

matthias wrote: ↑2023-04-02 11:24

Mitmu wrote: ↑2023-03-31 12:39 Later my wife switched between the 3 services so I could test blind, and again you could easily pick out Spotify as the best and Tidal as the worst.... great effort! :)

Thanks for sharing, would be interesting how Qobuz rank in this competition.

Indeed would be interesting, but no account unfortunately

Mitmu wrote: ↑2023-04-03 07:49

matthias wrote: ↑2023-04-02 11:24

Mitmu wrote: ↑2023-03-31 12:39 Later my wife switched between the 3 services so I could test blind, and again you could easily pick out Spotify as the best and Tidal as the worst.... great effort! :)

Thanks for sharing, would be interesting how Qobuz rank in this competition.

Indeed would be interesting, but no account unfortunately

If you go to the website you can sign up for a 30 day free trial. Or PM me and I can give you a code for a 60 day free trial, although I don't know if it will work outside the US.

Seems there is a small glitch in the set-up when a Macbook is used where Spotify is streaming to Kalla and when I change a song on my Iphone, which knows the song is played via my Macbook, the volume setting of the Iphone is used....... since I noticed a very clear lowering in volume when I did this, and then changed the volume on my Iphone and BANG.... there was the volume again, luckily not too loud to blow up my speakers but still might be a bit dangerous.....

Anyone else has experienced this? Or is there something wrong in my settings? I do have both deviced set-up correctly as stated in this topc..

Thanks!

This sounds very odd, Mitmu.

There is no information of volume sent with Protokoll, it’s always the full signal. So the question is where the volume is actually lowered.

Can you continually raise and lower the volume with your iPhone when MacBook is playing Spotify to Källa?

Ok, here it becomes obvious that I don’t have a MacBook.

The computer version of Spotify has a digital volume control. The Spotify apps for iPhone, iPad or Apple TV don't.

On MacBook the Spotify volume should be set to max, as all it can do is lower the volume (and degrade the signal).

lejonklou wrote: ↑2023-06-07 15:41 This sounds very odd, Mitmu.

There is no information of volume sent with Protokoll, it’s always the full signal. So the question is where the volume is actually lowered.

Can you continually raise and lower the volume with your iPhone when MacBook is playing Spotify to Källa?

Hi Frederik, yes I can keep controlling the volume from my phone, quite strange...

lejonklou wrote: ↑2023-06-07 16:21 Ok, here it becomes obvious that I don’t have a MacBook.

The computer version of Spotify has a digital volume control. The Spotify apps for iPhone, iPad or Apple TV don't.

On MacBook the Spotify volume should be set to max, as all it can do is lower the volume (and degrade the signal).

Seems like it, only it seems the iPhone's volume control overrules the macbook setting and can control Kalla's volume apperantly, I haven't found a way to change this so far, since on the macbook I cannot set a fixed volume..

Mitmu wrote: ↑2023-06-08 17:39 Seems like it, only it seems the iPhone's volume control overrules the macbook setting and can control Kalla's volume apperantly, I haven't found a way to change this so far, since on the macbook I cannot set a fixed volume..

Källa doesn’t have a volume. Spotify for computers has a volume lowering feature. This should be set to max.

When using another Apple device as a “Spotify remote”, it will also control the volume of the Spotify that is playing on the computer. This is confusing and I would regard it as a bug rather than a feature. I hope that Spotify removes it in a future version.

Mitmu wrote: ↑2023-06-08 17:39 Seems like it, only it seems the iPhone's volume control overrules the macbook setting and can control Kalla's volume apperantly, I haven't found a way to change this so far, since on the macbook I cannot set a fixed volume..

IIUC, the volume can not be higher than max on the macbook anyway, even when the iphone volume control is set to max.
Is this correct?

matthias wrote: ↑2023-06-09 05:39

Mitmu wrote: ↑2023-06-08 17:39 Seems like it, only it seems the iPhone's volume control overrules the macbook setting and can control Kalla's volume apperantly, I haven't found a way to change this so far, since on the macbook I cannot set a fixed volume..

IIUC, the volume can not be higher than max on the macbook anyway, even when the iphone volume control is set to max.
Is this correct?

It can never be higher than max. It is a volume reducer. Putting it on maximum setting means unmodified signal.

--

The reason why some computer media apps have digital volume controls that are independent from the system volume control is that a computer can play audio from multiple apps at the same time (it has a mixer device). When you do that, it can be a benefit to be able to fine tune each individual apps volume setting.

Since iPhone or iPad does not allow more than one app playing audio at once, there is no point to add a separate volume control there. Volume is controlled by the system.

A simple overview:

1[macOS/iOS/iPadOS tvOS] -> 2[(OPTIONAL) APP VOLUME CONTROL] -> 3[SYSTEM VOLUME CONTROL]

In the above scenario, step 3 (system volume) is only available if the output device supports changing volume (like the built-in speakers, HDMI devices, headphones). Källa is a fixed volume output device, so changing the system volume has no effect at all.

Since the built-in volume control in Spotify is placed within the app and changes the music signal, this will have an effect on the volume output of Källa. It happens within the app itself and the volume change works like any digital volume - it adds silence to the music signal that lowers the output. This will have a negative impact on the performance and for this reason any built-in volume controls in apps should always be set to maximum setting (untouched signal).

Step 2 is very common in desktop media apps but iOS/iPadOS or tvOS never have them because the audio architecture is very different from a computer. Playing music from an iPad or iPhone ensures that there are no volume controls messing with the audio signal.

"The bug" that Fredrik mentioned is that when the Spotify Desktop app is playing music to Källa from a Mac and you open Spotify on your iPhone or iPad it goes into "remote control mode". The volume buttons on the side of the iPhone/iPad will then be hi-jacked by Spotify and modify the digital volume control inside the Spotify app on the Mac which does have an effect on the output volume to Källa. This makes it pretty confusing and I agree that it is a very strange decision. It would have made more sense if it instead controlled the system volume control on the Mac (step 3) that is not affecting the volume output of fixed volume units like Källa.

How to avoid this

There are several ways to avoid this and ensure that Källa is getting the full music signal, unaffected by digital volume controls.

a) Use iPhone or iPad to stream the music to Källa instead of the Mac (since it does not have a digital volume, you are set)

or

b) Use the Mac and Spotify Desktop client but make sure the internal volume inside Spotify is set to maximum setting and avoid using Spotify on the iPhone or iPad as a remote control

or

c) Use the Mac and Spotify Desktop client but make sure the internal volume inside Spotify is set to maximum setting and avoid changing the volume on iPhones or iPads that are used to remote control Spotify on the Mac

Good luck!

Thanks jajo, lucid explanation!

I previously haven’t noticed any significant differences when updating the Spotify app, but today was different.

My iPad mini 6 was at a version from some time in April (sorry I didn’t check the version number) and was just updated to 8.8.43.

Wow! Better!

lejonklou wrote: ↑2023-06-13 21:34 I previously haven’t noticed any significant differences when updating the Spotify app, but today was different.

My iPad mini 6 was at a version from some time in April (sorry I didn’t check the version number) and was just updated to 8.8.43.

Wow! Better!

Might be helpful to set your iPad to auto updates for apps.

https://community.spotify.com/t5/FAQs/H ... -p/4737901

lejonklou wrote: ↑2023-06-13 21:34 I previously haven’t noticed any significant differences when updating the Spotify app, but today was different.

My iPad mini 6 was at a version from some time in April (sorry I didn’t check the version number) and was just updated to 8.8.43.

Wow! Better!

Despite being set to auto update my phone was still on 8.8.42, so I did a quick before/after.

Wow is right!

That was a pleasant surprise! Wow indeed!

markiteight wrote: ↑2023-06-13 22:18

lejonklou wrote: ↑2023-06-13 21:34 I previously haven’t noticed any significant differences when updating the Spotify app, but today was different.

My iPad mini 6 was at a version from some time in April (sorry I didn’t check the version number) and was just updated to 8.8.43.

Wow! Better!

Despite being set to auto update my phone was still on 8.8.42, so I did a quick before/after.

Wow is right!

The update just came out just 1 day ago so might not have reached most devices yet.

Just updated from .42 to 8.8.43; already being offered 8.8.44 - just a 'psa' to be aware of what version you're on/updating to as .44 may supercede .43 in available updates soon if they don't need to be applied sequentially...

I've turned *off* auto updates after getting .43 to listen to the recommended version without concern that the version will change on me.

Wow, indeed! In several ways. I hadn't noticed any musical change in the system recently so I went and checked the software on my iPad (which I thought had automatic updates as it has updated Spotify in the past and when it does the music always stops).

As a little preamble I should mention that I have the Källa playing most of the time in the living room. Part of this is for Lily when I am not here but I also just leave it on while I am doing things about the house. I haven't reconnected the LP12 since the Axpona show in April as the SINGularities got really dirty and I need to clean them up. I just got a spray bottle from Fredrik today (along with some Entities and a couple upgrade kits for Giella ∏) so I can clean them up. Also some of my Silver cables got mixed together at the show so I don't know which is my best pair and have to do cable testing again.

Back to Spotify. I had just told my iPhone 8+ to update earlier in the day so I knew the update was out there. I checked and it indeed had 8.8.43.436. So I decided to grab the iPad Mini 6 and go up front to see what the fuss what about. I picked a Chet Baker tune and it sounded good but it didn't seem special. So I checked the iPad and found that it was on 8.8.38.??? (I didn't write down the complete number.) So I played the same track using the iPhone - WOW, that was a lot more musical. I went into the iPad App store and told it to update Spotify and reopened it. Now it was sounding a lot better than it had but somehow the iPhone was still a little more musical. That didn't seem right so I checked About Spotify on the iPad and found that it had only upgraded it to 8.8.42.432. I listened to the iPhone again and it was indeed still better. I had to go through a lot of hassle since Spotify thought it was upgraded but after searching for Spotify on the app store and telling it to open it finally updated again. This time it became 8.8.43.436 just as the iPhone had. I listened to it again and WOW again, it was even more musical that the iPhone (as it should be) and by a significant amount. It was so good I just had to keep listening for a while and I keep noticing how musical it is today as different tracks play.

To me this is a quite substantial musical upgrade and really elevates the Källa to a level I'm not sure I would have thought possible. It also indicates to me that the version of the Spotify software is musically more important than the device used, especially considering how far down the list the my iPhone 8+ is compared to the iPad Mini 6. This is really cool!

Hrmmmm...something ain't right.

After reading tokenbrit's post this morning I confirmed my phone was still on *.43 before following his lead and turning off auto update. I then headed off to the gym, looking forward to a nice long session with Spotify's newfound musical prowess.

That didn't happen.

More detail, more accuracy, sharper dynamics, instruments sounded more like themselves, blah blah blah...but the sense of musicians playing together was almost completely gone. Granted, I was using a different pair of headphones (AirPods Pro2) than I was yesterday (AirPods Max), and Pro2 are not as musical as Max, but they're close! I go back and forth between the two often enough that I'm used to the difference and what I heard today was worse. Much worse. It was so bad I ended my workout early so I could put the headphones away. This is not good.

After returning home I tried the Max's again and they were better, but only by the difference I'm used to hearing between the two pairs of headphones. The magik I heard yesterday after updating to *.43 is gone.

Had anyone else experienced a night-and-day loss of tune? Has anyone tried *.44 yet? I'm puzzled about why I'm experiencing such a profound loss of music when seemingly nothing has changed! But before I cast any conclusions in concrete I'm going to walk away for a bit and try again at another time.

I’ve just upgraded the iPad to *.4, having missed the *.3 upgrade. Although I’m going by memory, it sounds ok, and possibly an improvement. I’ve been listening through a new version of my diy speaker, which unfortunately sounds a bit crap at the moment, but I’m sure the change to *.4 has upgraded the performance from “unlistenable” to “listenable”

My iPhone is still on *.2, so I’ll compare iPad 11” pro with *.4 to iPhone 11 with 0.2 when I get a chance. Previously, the iPhone has sounded noticeably better than the iPad, but I’ve a feeling that the difference could be quite a bit closer with these different firmware’s. Listening to iPad/*.4/diy speaker as I type this is quite enjoyable, which isn’t something I’ve been able to say with iPad/*.2 and the latest version of my speaker!

markiteight wrote: ↑2023-06-14 22:51 Had anyone else experienced a night-and-day loss of tune? Has anyone tried *.44 yet? I'm puzzled about why I'm experiencing such a profound loss of music when seemingly nothing has changed! But before I cast any conclusions in concrete I'm going to walk away for a bit and try again at another time.

My iPhone 11 was on 8.8.42 and I just upgraded to 8.8.43.436. Quite a bit better!

For some reason Canvas was now ON in Settings-Playback. Quite a bit better when I switched it off. I’d say about the same improvement as from 42 to 43.

Just a word of warning to check your settings after you do an upgrade. While the settings all stayed the same on my iPad, the upgrade to 8.8.43 on my iPhone changed a number of settings back to the less musical defaults. In my case a number of settings were changed.

Under Settings, within Playback the following were turned back on!
Automix
Enable Audio Normalization
Play Feedback Sounds and
Canvas

I just reset them but haven’t listened to the system yet. Probably won’t tonight as we had a short but big thunderstorm and lost power. I barely got the system unplugged before the power came back on. Since more storms are expected over the next 5 hours it will stay unplugged for now.

Simon was by earlier when the system was playing from the iPad and noticed the system was sounding unusually good for streaming.

I forgot to mention that the settings were the first thing I checked after the great disappointment, and everything was as it should be. However I also checked settings prior to updating to *.43 and found Canvas turned on, so I turned it back off before comparing .42 to .43.

The good news is the music is back! Another quick check of the settings show that nothing's changed, but today everything has sounded really, really good. Bizarre.

Did someone brave compare .44 to .43?
BTW, I have the impression that on macOS the version 1.2.13 is better as well.