Ubiquity AmpliFi HD

[Whatsmynaim]

I've ordered 2 Amplifi HD and they should arrive in may ..if I'm lucky. I got a mail telling there's shortage of electronic components halting the production and that's the reason for it being out of stock everywhere.

Ok so. The fiber modem is in the same room as my stereo. What would the best setup in this case?

[Spannko]

Thanks for sharing.
Did you try to replace your existing router with ONE Amplifi HD, so that your ISP router works as modem only and feeds the Amplifi HD via a short ethernet cable?

That’s what Spannko has done isn’t it, apart from possibly the length of cable?

The network consists of: Virgin modem > long cat5e > Netgear BR200 router > long cat5e > GS108 > even longer cat5e! > Amplifi HD > 3m Meicord > GS108T > 3m Meicord > Källa, so it’s far too complex tbh.

When the second Amplifi HD arrives later today I’ll set up the following network: Virgin modem > 10m cat5e > Amplifi HD >>>>>> Amplifi HD > 3m Meicord > GS108 > 3m Meicord > Källa.

[lejonklou]

That’s what Spannko has done isn’t it, apart from possibly the length of cable?

Maybe, if this is the case the secret of the musicality of the HD is not the router function per se but a two router config separated by wifi.

Which is what I was wondering about as well. Any comments on this from your other experiments Fredrik/Jajo?

Will do some experiments later today after I've delivered a Boazu, five Gaio, one Slipsik and started on Källa 032.

In other words, late today.

[matthias]

The network consists of: Virgin modem > long cat5e > Netgear BR200 router > long cat5e > GS108 > even longer cat5e! > Amplifi HD > 3m Meicord > GS108T > 3m Meicord > Källa, so it’s far too complex tbh.

I would go directly from modem into Amplifi HD and ditch all other routers and switches between:

Modem > Amplifi HD > GS108T > Källa (with ethernet cables in between)

I suppose this will be much more musical.

[matthias]

When the second Amplifi HD arrives later today I’ll set up the following network: Virgin modem > 10m cat5e > Amplifi HD >>>>>> Amplifi HD > 3m Meicord > GS108 > 3m Meicord > Källa.

Why the long 10m cat5e between modem and Amplifi HD?

[Spannko]

The network consists of: Virgin modem > long cat5e > Netgear BR200 router > long cat5e > GS108 > even longer cat5e! > Amplifi HD > 3m Meicord > GS108T > 3m Meicord > Källa, so it’s far too complex tbh.

I would go directly from modem into Amplifi HD and ditch all other routers and switches between:

Modem > Amplifi HD > GS108T > Källa (with ethernet cables in between)

I suppose this will be much more musical.

I’m following Fredrik’s recommendation of using 2 Amplifi HD’s connected by WiFi/mesh which he felt was more musical than using a long cable between the modem and a single Amplifi HD. I think that for Fredrik and myself, this is the best solution given the distance between our modem’s and HiFi systems.

It would be helpful, for those who’s modem is within about 5m of their systems, to know whether the (simpler) network layout you suggest is an improvement on the current recommend layout. Unfortunately, I’m not able to test that.

[Spannko]

The network consists of: Virgin modem > long cat5e > Netgear BR200 router > long cat5e > GS108 > even longer cat5e! > Amplifi HD > 3m Meicord > GS108T > 3m Meicord > Källa, so it’s far too complex tbh.

I would go directly from modem into Amplifi HD and ditch all other routers and switches between:

Modem > Amplifi HD > GS108T > Källa (with ethernet cables in between)

I suppose this will be much more musical.

Assumption alert! 😉

[matthias]

Assumption alert! 😉

At least I would try it before using the Amplifi HD as an additional switch (which does not make any sense in my view)

[Spannko]

When the second Amplifi HD arrives later today I’ll set up the following network: Virgin modem > 10m cat5e > Amplifi HD >>>>>> Amplifi HD > 3m Meicord > GS108 > 3m Meicord > Källa.

Why the long 10m cat5e between modem and Amplifi HD?

Unfortunately, the modem is on the other side of the house to my HiFi system and WiFi doesn’t travel through the walls very efficiently, so although the first Amplifi HD is only about 4m from the modem, the distance through roof spaces, cupboards etc adds up to about 10m.

[matthias]

I would go directly from modem into Amplifi HD and ditch all other routers and switches between:

Modem > Amplifi HD > GS108T > Källa (with ethernet cables in between)

It would be helpful, for those who’s modem is within about 5m of their systems, to know whether the (simpler) network layout you suggest is an improvement on the current recommend layout.

+1

[Spannko]

Assumption alert! 😉

At least I would try it before using the Amplifi HD as an additional switch (which does not make any sense in my view)

As far as I’m aware, the first Amplifi HD is primarily being used as the whole system router. The second Amplifi HD is used as a WAP which passes the Ethernet signal to the GS108T. This is the arrangement Fredrik tested and found to be the best when the HiFi system is at a distance from the modem.

[matthias]

As far as I’m aware, the first Amplifi HD is primarily being used as the whole system router. The second Amplifi HD is used as a WAP which passes the Ethernet signal to the GS108T. This is the arrangement Fredrik tested and found to be the best when the HiFi system is at a distance from the modem.

Totally agree,
but this was not my point. My point of concern was the role of the HD in your first config, sorry.

[tokenbrit]

Assumption alert! 😉

At least I would try it before using the Amplifi HD as an additional switch (which does not make any sense in my view)

As far as I’m aware, the first Amplifi HD is primarily being used as the whole system router. The second Amplifi HD is used as a WAP which passes the Ethernet signal to the GS108T. This is the arrangement Fredrik tested and found to be the best when the HiFi system is at a distance from the modem.

Ed Zachary, Spannko :)

What's your setup Matt? Are you able to try any configuration of cable from single router vs wireless 2nd router as WAP to help add some empirical findings to those shared by Fredrik, and soon(?) by Spannko? I'm trying an Airport Express (A1392) as a WAP in place of a 5m BJC just to see if there's any connection ;) to Fredrik's findings - whether wireless separation helps; whether there's a threshold cable length; whether there's any musical improvement; whether it's general, not just the HD(s); whether it makes sense, or not. I'll report in a few days.

[matthias]

Modem > Amplifi HD > GS108T > Källa (with ethernet cables in between)

It would be helpful, for those who’s modem is within about 5m of their systems, to know whether the (simpler) network layout you suggest is an improvement on the current recommend layout.

Hi tokenbrit,

like Spannko mentioned I am also just curious about the musicality of these two configurations.

[markiteight]

OK, so I have compared the following two network setups:

A:

Amplifi-A.gif

B:

Amplifi-B.gif

A is much better than B.

While B sounds like a great digital music streamer, A delivers magical music that playfully grips me and won't let me switch it off.

[Spannko]

After much giggery pokery (mainly operator error!) I’ve managed to get the two Amplifi HD’s set up in router/mesh/WAP mode. In addition to the mesh, the router is serving a switch (with multiple outlets), a WAP and a computer, but it’s definitely better than using a long cable from the original router, as fredrik suggested.

When I get the chance (ie when I won’t get moaned at for disconnecting everyone’s access to the internet!) I’ll disconnect everything from the main Amplifi HD/router and see if it makes any difference. As it is, there’s definitely a sound upgrade, but I’m reserving judgement on the musicality upgrade until I’ve done some more listening.

[matthias]

Thank you Fredrik and Spannko,
so two HDs connected by wifi is the gold standard :-)

[fatjulio]

So if your fibre modem is close to your network gear, only one Amplifi HD is needed? Or is it that the wireless link between to Amplifi HD's gives the magic?

[lejonklou]

So if your fibre modem is close to your network gear, only one Amplifi HD is needed? Or is it that the wireless link between to Amplifi HD's gives the magic?

I don’t think the 5 m cable length in layout B is the main problem, because simply putting that cable on layout A doesn’t produce the same difference.

I don’t think the wireless link adds anything positive, simply because it’s not a pattern I recognize.

I think that the second Amplifi is powered next to the switch is important.

I think that the two Amplifi each have only one cable connected (the cables carry ground) is likely beneficial.

I’d like to stress that if you can rotate the mains adapter 180 degrees (at least on the European version you can), it’s essential to try both ways. One way is clearly better than the other and it’s easy to hear the difference.

EDIT: I mistakenly wrote 'router' instead of 'switch', now corrected!

[tokenbrit]

I don’t think the 5 m cable length in layout B is the main problem, because simply putting that cable on layout A doesn’t produce the same difference.

Is that with the 5m cable between the 2 HDs for an Ethernet connection rather than wireless? Or not because of the ground, as below?

I think that the second Amplifi is powered next to the [switch?] is important.

Could this be achieved without a second Amplifi HD if we have the Internet modem near our system to plug in a single HD next to the switch? Subject to not needing any cables other than to the switch(es)?

I think that the two Amplifi each have only one cable connected (the cables carry ground) is likely beneficial.

Does that mean that both Amplifi HDs need a single cable to a switch if additional Ethernet connections are needed; not just the HD for the system with the 108T?

[Defender]

@Tokenbrit:
as I read it Fredrik already gave the answers but hope he will clarify.

The first HD has the WAN Ethernet cable from the modem
The second HD has the Ethernet cable to the GS108
so both HDs are only having one ethernet cable attached which Fredrik „thinks“ is the key.

If you only use one HD you have one ethernet cable as WAN connection and the other to the GS108 so two ethernet cables attached.

The guy in the forum which matthias linked to said he even hears a difference when more devices than one are connected per wifi (to the HD) - I am not sure how true that is but that would speak for creating a dedicated WLAN with the HD‘s only for Källa

[matthias]

The guy in the forum which matthias linked to said he even hears a difference when more devices than one are connected per wifi (to the HD) - I am not sure how true that is but that would speak for creating a dedicated WLAN with the HD‘s only for Källa

I know this guy, like Fredrik he is hearing like a bat and he is the designer of one of the best servers on the market.
His recommended Amplfi HD config is slightly different as the recommended one by Fredrik:

Modem > Amplifi HD > Taiko Extreme server (all connected with cat5 or cat6 UTP ethernet cable)

So only one HD and no switch before the server, I don't know if he tested Fredrik's configuration with his server.

[tokenbrit]

@Tokenbrit:
as I read it Fredrik already gave the answers but hope he will clarify.

The first HD has the WAN Ethernet cable from the modem
The second HD has the Ethernet cable to the GS108
so both HDs are only having one ethernet cable attached which Fredrik „thinks“ is the key.

If you only use one HD you have one ethernet cable as WAN connection and the other to the GS108 so two ethernet cables attached.

The guy in the forum which matthias linked to said he even hears a difference when more devices than one are connected per wifi (to the HD) - I am not sure how true that is but that would speak for creating a dedicated WLAN with the HD‘s only for Källa

Thanks for sharing your clarification. That makes sense... I wasn't considering WAN v LAN when it came to 1 cable (v 2) and struggling a bit with the details relating to the 1st router that impact the 2nd...

[Defender]

yeah it certainly would make sense that less devices make for better music but we are in the digital world which would also question why we use the GS108 even though we wouldn’t need to.
I might test both configurations as soon as I have sourced two HD‘s but my system is still with a NAS which I than rather attach to the first HD at the modem side.

@Fredrik: is the side which should get the live wire for the HD power supply consistent in your system and which side is it?

[matthias]

A further question might be which of the four LAN ports of the HD is the most musical one.......