Re: General Discussion about Källa
Posted: 2021-10-13 16:03
https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/
It is possible that Källa has burned in. It is also possible that the more I listened to Källa the more I got what it was doing and was better able to forget the sound and focus on the music.Defender wrote: ↑2021-10-13 12:11 David - as the LSNAS has not changed it probably means the Källa has improved since or do you have a different explanation. And you now actually say the LP12 couldnt reveal as much emotion as the Källa does? I want to make sure that I am not reading something into your statement.
Yes, and yes!
Thanks for elaborating: the ! really got the point across ;) :DSpannko wrote: ↑2021-10-13 23:09Yes, and yes!
Of course.
That slogan was marketing nonsense, as we all know, and is irrelevant to any considered discussion about Exakt.
For Kalla as the source, yes. Or the full alternative. It would be interesting to compare the full end to end alternatives (using the same speakers), but that's a logistical challenge!
Marketing nonsense or not - it describes perfectly well how Exakt works and why it is a bad match with an external source like Källa or LP12.sunbeamgls wrote: ↑2021-10-14 09:55 That slogan was utter marketing nonsense, as we all know, and is irrelevant to any sensible discussion about Exakt.
Me neither, which is covered in my listening conclusions and in a follow up post. My enthusiasm for Exakt is as a digital end to end solution, as that's what I listen to. As a system to support an analogue source, well, that's not the way I use it. These 2 things should be separated, not amalgamated into a single conclusion, IMO.jajo wrote: ↑2021-10-14 11:37Marketing nonsense or not - it describes perfectly well how Exakt works and why it is a bad match with an external source like Källa or LP12.sunbeamgls wrote: ↑2021-10-14 09:55 That slogan was utter marketing nonsense, as we all know, and is irrelevant to any sensible discussion about Exakt.
Exakt is built on the belief that data can be transported "as 1s and 0s" without loss or degradation and therefor it makes sense to keep as big part as possible of the signal chain in the digital domain. From my testing I have learned that this is a false statement and that lots of care must be taken to test which parts of the signal chain that should be digital and analogue for maximum musical performance. It is really not simple in reality and Linn has simplified it too much unfortunately.
I am not interested in starting a war regarding Exakt - it is fine that we have different opinions about the performance of this solution. For me personally, it is a big step in the wrong direction and it simply does not perform good. It sounds nice/impressive with great clarity but lacks emotion/nerve/fluidness. From my experience with streaming technology, this is exactly what happens when the signal chain is not properly designed/tuned.
I guess this is all OT, sorry if this post belongs to another thread.
Like all systems, things need to be optimised, its why I mentioned the role of Melco / Minimserver - all part of the optimisation, amongst other things that have been done along the way. The same applies to Kalla - such as fixing IP address, choosing the right streaming service, choosing the best iOS device etc. No different to any other system.jajo wrote: ↑2021-10-14 11:37I am not interested in starting a war regarding Exakt - it is fine that we have different opinions about the performance of this solution. For me personally, it is a big step in the wrong direction and it simply does not perform good. It sounds nice/impressive with great clarity but lacks emotion/nerve/fluidness. From my experience with streaming technology, this is exactly what happens when the signal chain is not properly designed/tuned.sunbeamgls wrote: ↑2021-10-14 09:55 That slogan was utter marketing nonsense, as we all know, and is irrelevant to any sensible discussion about Exakt.
Exaktly :-)jajo wrote: ↑2021-10-14 11:37 Exakt is built on the belief that data can be transported "as 1s and 0s" without loss or degradation and therefor it makes sense to keep as big part as possible of the signal chain in the digital domain. From my testing I have learned that this is a false statement and that lots of care must be taken to test which parts of the signal chain that should be digital and analogue for maximum musical performance. It is really not simple in reality and Linn has simplified it too much unfortunately.
They are very fragile when it comes to transferring music and less fragile when it comes to transferring data.
This looks like an interesting topic to take further - perhaps into the Inside Hifi subforum?jajo wrote: ↑2021-10-14 15:41They are very fragile when it comes to transferring music and less fragile when it comes to transferring data.
Yes, music is data, but when the final step is music reproduction, as humans we can easily detect the effect of the signal transfer that is completely unrelated to the successful transfer of the actual data.
This fact is critical when designing digital products for music reproduction. We really don't know much about why, but as long as this is always in the back of the mind, it is perfectly possible to "work around it" by listening and evaluating every step on the way.
AoE (Exakt) is in my opinion a poor protocol for transferring emotions, musical understanding and mood. But a great protocol for transferring non-time-critical data (because the word clock is being sent via broadcast and not encoded with the data). AES3 is more compelling for music data transfer because of the "differential manchester encoding" that allows clock signal and data to be sent in the same stream.
Yes, that is correct. Data without timing cannot become music.springwood64 wrote: ↑2021-10-14 15:55 Is it accurate to say the music is data with timing, and while data is robust, timing is fragile?
I understand that AirPlay uses UDP to transport RTSP. But it doesn't use AES3 or differential Manchester encoding, does it? That applies at Layer 1 (physical) of the transport stack, well below the AirPlay protocol. Music timing is transported in the RTSP protocol. Or was your reference to AES3 not relevant to Källa?
Don’t the forum rules state that all posts should be written in English? 😂springwood64 wrote: ↑2021-10-14 16:30I understand that AirPlay uses UDP to transport RTSP. But it doesn't use AES3 or differential Manchester encoding, does it? That applies at Layer 1 (physical) of the transport stack, well below the AirPlay protocol. Music timing is transported in the RTSP protocol. Or was your reference to AES3 not relevant to Källa?