General Discussion about Källa

[Mitmu]

Does anyone have experience if there is any noticable impact of a network Powerline adaptor being connected to the house mains power network on the performance of de Kalla? (or other components?)

I don’t have any recent experience, but remember from way back that a customer used an Ethernet-over-mains connection (which I think is what you’re referring to) and those really did a bad job on his Linn HiFi components. Everything just sounded worse when they were connected anywhere near the system. Perhaps such units are better today, but I sure would evaluate them by ear before deciding on them as a permanent solution.

I don't think this was me, but I was using Ethernet over mains with a Klimax DS, then a Vitus RD-101 before the magnificence of Källa arrived. The Ethernet over mains worked with Källa, until my wife plugged her laptop into the ethernet over mains plug upstairs, which caused Källa and other devices to disappear from Airplay. We confirmed this several times. So, avoid if you can.

I'm now using the Ubiquiti wireless route which works a treat and sounds better.

The ethernet over mains is just meant to connect my solar panels monitoring hub to the internet since the wifi signal does not reach to the space where the hub is installed, not to connect the Kalla to internet, that is connected via a TP Link Mesh system to a GS108T to the Kalla. But I was wondering if this would have any 'noise' consequence on my mains network that could be negative for the music...

[Sopper]

I just wanted to share some crazy experience I had…

When Marco returned my SM’s, I spend quite some hours to get everything set up in my Norstone Khalm.
Decided to get it cleaned and manage all the cables properly, so I started from scratch again with an empty cabinet

Today, I remembered something i had changed in comparison with before
(I was not happy with my sound, but didn’t dare to say this (I just bought a 6k streamer))
To get the cables more out of sight, I’ve put my power strip charging all my amplifiers and the KÄLLA to another socket behind the cabinet instead of the sidewall where it has always been.
This socket behind the cabinet, now I remember, was not there before. I asked the electrician to get it there as extra, when we redid our living room 4 years ago, but never have used it since. I also remember that this power outlet came from other wires, connected to the kitchen next room. (Old house where wiring is not like modern standards)
He did it this way, because otherwise we had to break down a lot of walls and ceiling in the room.

This afternoon I switched the power strip to his old position, the side wall… and all the magic is back.
It had never sounded as good as it does now…

It’s just crazy to experience what a different power outlet can do to musicality

[lejonklou]

Well done noticing the quality drop and figuring out the reason, Sopper!

[Mitmu]

Kalla 059 has landed in my living room after I picked her up at Marco this morning, thanks for the opportunity to demo at home and the service Marco!:)

From the first minute I listened to the demo unit three weeks ago, I really love it, so musical! This is the first time in 15 years I have no Linn equipment in my system!

Can't wait for the Superkikkin to be delivered to complete my set-up, in the meantime I can borrow Marco his Kikkin, so enough music will flow the next couple of weeks!

(so hurry up Frederik with the Superkikkin haha ;) )

[ThomasOK]

Kalla 059 has landed in my living room after I picked her up at Marco this morning, thanks for the opportunity to demo at home and the service Marco!:)

From the first minute I listened to the demo unit three weeks ago, I really love it, so musical! This is the first time in 15 years I have no Linn equipment in my system!

Can't wait for the Superkikkin to be delivered to complete my set-up, in the meantime I can borrow Marco his Kikkin, so enough music will flow the next couple of weeks!

(so hurry up Frederik with the Superkikkin haha ;) )

Congratulations on the Källa! I'm sure the Superkikkin will take your system to an even higher level. Hopefully not too much longer but you can't blame Fredrik, his case manufacturer has been holding up the production line.

[Mitmu]

Kalla 059 has landed in my living room after I picked her up at Marco this morning, thanks for the opportunity to demo at home and the service Marco!:)

From the first minute I listened to the demo unit three weeks ago, I really love it, so musical! This is the first time in 15 years I have no Linn equipment in my system!

Can't wait for the Superkikkin to be delivered to complete my set-up, in the meantime I can borrow Marco his Kikkin, so enough music will flow the next couple of weeks!

(so hurry up Frederik with the Superkikkin haha ;) )

Congratulations on the Källa! I'm sure the Superkikkin will take your system to an even higher level. Hopefully not too much longer but you can't blame Fredrik, his case manufacturer has been holding up the production line.

Thanks! It is a wonderful piece!

Superkikkin will indeed take it even further, I got patience and a lot of traveling coming up so no rush :)

[ekay2012]

I had a bit of a panic this morning. Turned on some music with my iPad mini 6 and there was a significant crackle. Thought it was a bad speaker at first but then realized it was coming from both speakers. Restarted Källa, start up tone was normal but crackle was still there with music. Unplugged a couple things one at a time without success. Tried playing music from my iPhone and the crackle was gone. Quit the Spotify app on my iPad without success but after a restart things are back to normal. First time that has happened to me. Now back to enjoying some music :)

[lejonklou]

Huh! That’s a new one to me. Happy to hear a restart of the app was all that was needed.

[tokenbrit]

Thanks for sharing ekay. Good to know, and glad a restart fixed things. Something to watch/listen for...

I've had occasional glitches with AirPlay from iPad Mini to Apple TV only playing audio, not video, or not finding the Apple TV despite both thinking they're connected - a wifi dis/re-connect of the Mini usually fixes that... It does seem a restart of the iPad Mini once in a while can help.

Do you have a sense of how long it had been since your Mini had been restarted, or is it 'always on'?

[ekay2012]

My best guess would be about two weeks ago.

[tokenbrit]

Yep, mine usually goes a similar amount of time between restarts... sometimes longer; rarely less than 2 weeks. Unusual to run into problems, but thanks again for making us aware, and reporting that it was an easy fix.

[matthias]

From another forum:

"Video from Darko shows that if your app supports AirPlay 2 and the streamer or speaker you are sending your data to supports AirPlay 2 then that CD quality 16/44.1 lossless file you thought you were listening to is actually being compressed to AAC 256 lossy before it is sent….

Apparently Tidal App supports AirPlay 2. Qobuz, mercifully for me, supports the original AirPlay and therefore the endpoint does receive the lossless 16/44.1 file. All comes down to the fact the original AirPlay sends a continuous stream of data, AirPlay 2 sends a short burst every 10 seconds (so needs to compress the file) Less dropouts but lower quality."

If this is true I really hope Källa supports only the original AirPlay and not AirPlay 2.
Maybe Fredrik can comment on this.

[tokenbrit]

From another forum:

"Video from Darko shows that if your app supports AirPlay 2 and the streamer or speaker you are sending your data to supports AirPlay 2 then that CD quality 16/44.1 lossless file you thought you were listening to is actually being compressed to AAC 256 lossy before it is sent….

Apparently Tidal App supports AirPlay 2. Qobuz, mercifully for me, supports the original AirPlay and therefore the endpoint does receive the lossless 16/44.1 file. All comes down to the fact the original AirPlay sends a continuous stream of data, AirPlay 2 sends a short burst every 10 seconds (so needs to compress the file) Less dropouts but lower quality."

If this is true I really hope Källa supports only the original AirPlay and not AirPlay 2.
Maybe Fredrik can comment on this.

Presumably interpreted from the video associated with this article - https://darko.audio/2023/10/apple-airpl ... aster-egg/

The important sentence within that being: "AirPlay 2’s lossy transmission only affects Apple Music’s and Tidal’s iOS/iPadOS apps" - no mention of Spotify, thankfully.

Does your concern & enquiry mean you're closer to trying/buying a Kalla, Matt? :)

[matthias]

Presumably interpreted from the video associated with this article - https://darko.audio/2023/10/apple-airpl ... aster-egg/

The much more interesting article is this one:

https://darko.audio/2023/10/apple-airpl ... its-lossy/

All is good if Källa is a AirPlay 1 device.

[Lego]

Presumably interpreted from the video associated with this article - https://darko.audio/2023/10/apple-airpl ... aster-egg/

The much more interesting article is this one:

https://darko.audio/2023/10/apple-airpl ... its-lossy/

All is good if Källa is a AirPlay 1 device.

Why is this good Matt?

I thought Kalla was a Protokol device.

[Spannko]

I thought Kalla was a Protokol device.

Källa does not use Airplay™! Källa's communication protocol is however compatible.

[tokenbrit]

I thought Kalla was a Protokol device.

Källa does not use Airplay™! Källa's communication protocol is however compatible.

Thannko Spannko :) I thought about a comment to that effect in response to Matt, but couldn't immediately find the quote, and the article limiting it to just a couple of apps, not including Spotify, seemed a good alternative... Also, if Kalla were affected, it wouldn't get the positive reviews ;)

[jajo]

From another forum:

"Video from Darko shows that if your app supports AirPlay 2 and the streamer or speaker you are sending your data to supports AirPlay 2 then that CD quality 16/44.1 lossless file you thought you were listening to is actually being compressed to AAC 256 lossy before it is sent….

Apparently Tidal App supports AirPlay 2. Qobuz, mercifully for me, supports the original AirPlay and therefore the endpoint does receive the lossless 16/44.1 file. All comes down to the fact the original AirPlay sends a continuous stream of data, AirPlay 2 sends a short burst every 10 seconds (so needs to compress the file) Less dropouts but lower quality."

If this is true I really hope Källa supports only the original AirPlay and not AirPlay 2.
Maybe Fredrik can comment on this.

No need to worry. The Källa backend is programmed carefully to use the most musical methods to transfer the data from the control point to the decoder framework. Airplay 1 and 2 refer to different sets of methods and handshakes between the client and server to enable different features. Källa is optimised only for the most musical combination of options and transfer methods and cannot be labeled as ”Airplay 1” or ”Airplay 2”.

[matthias]

From another forum:

"Video from Darko shows that if your app supports AirPlay 2 and the streamer or speaker you are sending your data to supports AirPlay 2 then that CD quality 16/44.1 lossless file you thought you were listening to is actually being compressed to AAC 256 lossy before it is sent….

Apparently Tidal App supports AirPlay 2. Qobuz, mercifully for me, supports the original AirPlay and therefore the endpoint does receive the lossless 16/44.1 file. All comes down to the fact the original AirPlay sends a continuous stream of data, AirPlay 2 sends a short burst every 10 seconds (so needs to compress the file) Less dropouts but lower quality."

If this is true I really hope Källa supports only the original AirPlay and not AirPlay 2.
Maybe Fredrik can comment on this.

No need to worry. The Källa backend is programmed carefully to use the most musical methods to transfer the data from the control point to the decoder framework. Airplay 1 and 2 refer to different sets of methods and handshakes between the client and server to enable different features. Källa is optimised only for the most musical combination of options and transfer methods and cannot be labeled as ”Airplay 1” or ”Airplay 2”.

Thanks jajo,
so with Källa there is never the above mentioned compression from 16/44.1 to AAC256?

[Lego]

From another forum:

"Video from Darko shows that if your app supports AirPlay 2 and the streamer or speaker you are sending your data to supports AirPlay 2 then that CD quality 16/44.1 lossless file you thought you were listening to is actually being compressed to AAC 256 lossy before it is sent….

Apparently Tidal App supports AirPlay 2. Qobuz, mercifully for me, supports the original AirPlay and therefore the endpoint does receive the lossless 16/44.1 file. All comes down to the fact the original AirPlay sends a continuous stream of data, AirPlay 2 sends a short burst every 10 seconds (so needs to compress the file) Less dropouts but lower quality."

If this is true I really hope Källa supports only the original AirPlay and not AirPlay 2.
Maybe Fredrik can comment on this.

That's very interesting Matt ,I did briefly see that video .What forum are you quoting from?

[matthias]

What forum are you quoting from?

Audirvana community forum

[jajo]

From another forum:

"Video from Darko shows that if your app supports AirPlay 2 and the streamer or speaker you are sending your data to supports AirPlay 2 then that CD quality 16/44.1 lossless file you thought you were listening to is actually being compressed to AAC 256 lossy before it is sent….

Apparently Tidal App supports AirPlay 2. Qobuz, mercifully for me, supports the original AirPlay and therefore the endpoint does receive the lossless 16/44.1 file. All comes down to the fact the original AirPlay sends a continuous stream of data, AirPlay 2 sends a short burst every 10 seconds (so needs to compress the file) Less dropouts but lower quality."

If this is true I really hope Källa supports only the original AirPlay and not AirPlay 2.
Maybe Fredrik can comment on this.

No need to worry. The Källa backend is programmed carefully to use the most musical methods to transfer the data from the control point to the decoder framework. Airplay 1 and 2 refer to different sets of methods and handshakes between the client and server to enable different features. Källa is optimised only for the most musical combination of options and transfer methods and cannot be labeled as ”Airplay 1” or ”Airplay 2”.

Thanks jajo,
so with Källa there is never the above mentioned compression from 16/44.1 to AAC256?

I don’t mean to sound rude in any way, but the question is really quite irrelevant when we are discussing the best way to transfer the music signal from the control point to the decoder framework.

A signal source like Källa is a very complex system where many parameters will affect the end result. The bitrate of the audio stream is important, but not in the sense that most audiophiles think (that higher is always better). Bitrate/format is just one small part of a critical chain of events where every step must be selected based on the end result - which is the enjoyment you get when listening to music.

[TMV]

Does source first work differently in the digital domain? Comparing to analog, the source file should be more important than the streamer, but since Källa sounds great with Spotify this might not be completely true? Maybe the source file AND the server together is the source?

[Lego]

Does source first work differently in the digital domain? Comparing to analog, the source file should be more important than the streamer, but since Källa sounds great with Spotify this might not be completely true? Maybe the source file AND the server together is the source?

Spotify sounded great BK

[lejonklou]

Does source first work differently in the digital domain? Comparing to analog, the source file should be more important than the streamer, but since Källa sounds great with Spotify this might not be completely true? Maybe the source file AND the server together is the source?

I guess what Lego means is that Spotify sounds great with other streamers than Källa.

When you play streaming audio (and video) material, you are getting a source file delivered in a stream of packets over the internet. Both the quality of the source file and exactly how it's delivered matters to how musical the end result will be.