General Discussion about Källa

A source of endless thrills

Moderator: Staff

Post Reply
Azazello
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 630
Joined: 2007-01-30 21:59
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Azazello »

cortina wrote: 2021-10-11 16:20 Of course, user friendliness is an important aspect (not having heard that many complaining except perhaps those having never built a PC back in the days. But I would guess those not knowing someone who has should be even fewer.)
Haven’t followered the Hakai section lately but severe sound degradation is new to me.

Nevertheless, my main fascination is how every new streamer, version or whatever always gets a verdict like ”Now streaming finally sounds like analogue (except only those old records recorded before digital).”
But when the next thing arrives, it always sounds like the superseded products were never even close..
(Somewhat exaggerated..)

Perhaps the nature of hi-fi reviewing on forums.
Agree. IMHO it's partially due to the fact that it's impossible to quantify "musicality". You can compare two units reliably, but that's it. And if something is "almost as good" as some LP12 you never know how many other devices you can fit into that space in the future. Then there is the complication of certain recordings being different on Vinyl and digital. And then you have the third layer in variations between units and the fact that LP12 can sound bad if not set up correctly, which is super difficult, so it's hard to judge what you hear on an event, and that everything sounds better during the night. It's a bit of a mess, and only time will tell if Källa will be the new reference or not.

But I trust Fredrik enough to throw my money on him when he expresses himself the way he is at the moment!
Last edited by Azazello on 2021-10-11 17:44, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
springwood64
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 789
Joined: 2008-10-13 18:19
Location: UK

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by springwood64 »

cortina wrote: 2021-10-11 16:20 Haven’t followed the Hakai section lately but severe sound degradation is new to me.
I haven't experienced any degradation, in fact one source seems to have mysteriously become more enjoyable.

However, the sound quality of different sources on Hakai can be very different. For example, Airplay (via shairport sync, from AppleTV) can sound pretty poor on mine
Pete

Linn Axis, Kinki, Källa (GS308T+Amplifi HD x 2 + BJC), Boazu, Espeks
Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1266
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Defender »

@Cortina: I hear what you are saying - the good thing is that all of the dealers of Lejonklou equipment let you try the device at home ... in your environment ... with enough time to evaluate. Thats what I would recommend for all to do - too much money involved and at a certain level of your journey you have to take real care that you are not making a side step or actually making it worst.

I am probably an exception to the rule as I bought all my Lejonklou equipment so far without hearing it first and I am more happy compared to decisions I made in the past with having the ability to compare :).

This might give you an idea how much I trust the collective ears in this forum. But in the case of the Källa I am going to try first before I made my mind up - too big is the difference which I experience now between digital (Akurate DS/3) and my medium level LP12. So the Källa has to impress.
Last edited by Defender on 2021-10-11 21:53, edited 1 time in total.
tokenbrit
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2012-03-22 19:47
Location: New England

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by tokenbrit »

David Neel wrote: 2021-10-11 14:00 My Hakai is ... consistent and reliable, which is what I want for the small minority of my listening which is from digital files. It's just good enough that I sold my ADS/3. I concur with Spannko's assessment of it.
Considering:
- it beat your LP12 & the subsequent minute silence
- you "can envisage buying very little new vinyl..."
- that "Källa is in a different league altogether" [to ADS/3, Hakai, & KDS/1]

Despite:
- 'the small minority of your listening [to] digital'

Are either of you considering ordering a Källa? Just curious :)
Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2292
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: North East of The Black Country, UK

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Spannko »

Am I considering buying a Källa? The answer to that can only be a yes! Unfortunately, I can’t just plug a Källa into my system (being an Exakt only system) which means I have to sell everything and start again, but I’m working on a roadmap as we speak!
David Neel
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 975
Joined: 2008-02-08 23:17
Location: The Magical Forest

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by David Neel »

Great question! Like Spannko, the answer can only be yes.
I've since had further listening and made a minor change on the LP12 so that it is bit better than it was on Saturday. It still can't be as musical as Källa from Spotify, but it's better than Källa from the LSNAS. I'm not a fan of streaming services, I wanted a device to play from my own music collection which I control. But Källa is so good that I'm having to rethink my attitude towards streaming services.
I had money set aside for Källa, until I learned that it was focused on streaming services only. That money then got spent on a lovely afghan rug and a brake restoration for my 55 year old car. So it can't happen immediately, although I have cancelled my order for a Radikal/2 upgrade...
Last edited by David Neel on 2021-10-12 09:56, edited 1 time in total.
The search for knowledge is not nourished by certainty, but by a radical distrust in certainty
tokenbrit
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2012-03-22 19:47
Location: New England

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by tokenbrit »

Spannko wrote: 2021-10-11 22:46 .. The answer to that can only be a yes! .. I can’t just plug a Källa into my [Exakt-only] system .. I have to sell everything and start again, but I’m working on a roadmap as we speak!
David Neel wrote: 2021-10-11 22:52 .. Like Spannko, the answer can only be yes.
I had money set aside for Källa... That money then got spent... So it can't happen immediately, although I have cancelled my order for a Radikal/2 upgrade...
Wow. Thanks both. That speaks volumes :)
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Charlie1 »

How's it sounding now David? A bit better with more running time, or pretty much the same? I guess you don't have it much longer.

For anyone doing comparisons using Kalla (and Lejonklou amps), worth reiterating that the gear didn't like being power cycled when David needed to move components between sockets. It sometimes took 20 mins to return to where we were and get all the magic back. Just worth bearing in mind.
Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1266
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Defender »

yes Charlie I agree with that power cycling and in some cases changing connections (interconnects) as well as what position the devices get on a rack or if they are on equal inputs makes it sometimes difficult to make a fair comparison.
I even have a feeling that temperature differences in the room of about 1 degree makes a difference. That doesnt happen to be an issue for quick a-b tests but would make difference for recordings on one day or another.
David Neel
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 975
Joined: 2008-02-08 23:17
Location: The Magical Forest

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by David Neel »

Charlie1 wrote: 2021-10-12 12:00 How's it sounding now David? A bit better with more running time, or pretty much the same? I guess you don't have it much longer.
Difficult to hear any change over the last 24 hours. But the Entity is now fully warmed up again, so the LP12 sounds a bit better, although my ranking order hasn't changed.

And no, not much longer! It will be collected this evening... :(
The search for knowledge is not nourished by certainty, but by a radical distrust in certainty
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks Defender and David
sunbeamgls
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1087
Joined: 2012-04-04 15:19
Location: North Wales
Contact:

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by sunbeamgls »

ThomasOK wrote: 2021-10-06 18:03
Arjen wrote: 2021-10-05 22:36 Now that the Kalla is getting delivered and the first impressions at this forum shared, a question.
The charm of vinyl is its relative imperfection unlike the digital performance, does the Kalla bring back that vinyl like thrill? Or is it killing because of another performance quality?
Sorry, but I have never bought the theory that the charm of vinyl is its relative imperfection. Nor do I think the that pops and clicks are part of the charm as idiots in magazines like to claim when talking about records. The attraction of vinyl is that when well produced, well pressed and decently played back it has a musical naturalness, movement and engagement that has so far been missing from digital playback, at least to any where near the same degree. If Källa allows digitally stored files to provide a high degree of that musical naturalness, movement and engagement it will indeed be a breakthrough, even if it doesn't quite match the best albums on the best turntables.
I have to disagree that this would be a breakthrough. I don't have any issues at all with being musically engaged with my Akurate EDSM / Exaktbox Kat nor with KDS/3, nor KSH / Akurate Exaktbox Kat all of which have plenty of engagement. There are plenty of digital devices out there that don't do this, some of them many times more expensive than Linn.
KSH/0; KEBox/2; 3x Tundra Stereo 2.5; PMC fact.12. Blogger. Exakt Design. SO measuring.
sunbeamgls
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1087
Joined: 2012-04-04 15:19
Location: North Wales
Contact:

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by sunbeamgls »

David Neel wrote: 2021-10-08 11:00 20211008_105317.jpg
Is the change to grey lettering just for Kalla, or a change of direction for all new builds please Fredrik?
KSH/0; KEBox/2; 3x Tundra Stereo 2.5; PMC fact.12. Blogger. Exakt Design. SO measuring.
sunbeamgls
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1087
Joined: 2012-04-04 15:19
Location: North Wales
Contact:

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by sunbeamgls »

Spannko wrote: 2021-10-11 22:46 Am I considering buying a Källa? The answer to that can only be a yes! Unfortunately, I can’t just plug a Källa into my system (being an Exakt only system) which means I have to sell everything and start again, but I’m working on a roadmap as we speak!
Your Exakt system has an analogue input though.
KSH/0; KEBox/2; 3x Tundra Stereo 2.5; PMC fact.12. Blogger. Exakt Design. SO measuring.
User avatar
jajo
Active member
Active member
Posts: 213
Joined: 2007-01-19 15:08
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by jajo »

sunbeamgls wrote: 2021-10-12 15:44 Your Exakt system has an analogue input though.
Without going too much off-topic, but connecting a Källa to the analogue input of an Exakt system is going to be inferior and more expensive than abandoning Exakt.

Exakt primarily makes sense with an Exakt source, otherwise I would strongly advice against it.
sunbeamgls
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1087
Joined: 2012-04-04 15:19
Location: North Wales
Contact:

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by sunbeamgls »

jajo wrote: 2021-10-12 15:58
sunbeamgls wrote: 2021-10-12 15:44 Your Exakt system has an analogue input though.
Without going too much off-topic, but connecting a Källa to the analogue input of an Exakt system is going to be inferior and more expensive than abandoning Exakt.

Exakt primarily makes sense with an Exakt source, otherwise I would strongly advice against it.
Its not a given at all. There are still benefits with an analogue source, if one is of the opinion that there are benefits with Exakt, which spannko may recognise, having invested.

Personally, I'd be listening before deciding.
KSH/0; KEBox/2; 3x Tundra Stereo 2.5; PMC fact.12. Blogger. Exakt Design. SO measuring.
FairPlayMotty
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 769
Joined: 2018-08-28 11:10
Location: Scotland

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by FairPlayMotty »

jajo wrote: 2021-10-12 15:58
Without going too much off-topic, but connecting a Källa to the analogue input of an Exakt system is going to be inferior
Isn't a similar situation with a Källa being connected to JBL308P or JBL708P?
Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.
David Neel
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 975
Joined: 2008-02-08 23:17
Location: The Magical Forest

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by David Neel »

sunbeamgls wrote: 2021-10-12 15:44
Spannko wrote: 2021-10-11 22:46 Am I considering buying a Källa? The answer to that can only be a yes! Unfortunately, I can’t just plug a Källa into my system (being an Exakt only system) which means I have to sell everything and start again, but I’m working on a roadmap as we speak!
Your Exakt system has an analogue input though.
Does it?
The search for knowledge is not nourished by certainty, but by a radical distrust in certainty
User avatar
jajo
Active member
Active member
Posts: 213
Joined: 2007-01-19 15:08
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by jajo »

FairPlayMotty wrote: 2021-10-12 16:37
jajo wrote: 2021-10-12 15:58
Without going too much off-topic, but connecting a Källa to the analogue input of an Exakt system is going to be inferior
Isn't a similar situation with a Källa being connected to JBL308P or JBL708P?
Perhaps, with the difference that the JBLs are much more musical than any Exakt system I ever heard.
Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2292
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: North East of The Black Country, UK

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Spannko »

sunbeamgls wrote: 2021-10-12 15:24 I have to disagree that this would be a breakthrough.
May we have this noted in the records for future reference please!
Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2292
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: North East of The Black Country, UK

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Spannko »

David Neel wrote: 2021-10-12 16:48
sunbeamgls wrote: 2021-10-12 15:44
Spannko wrote: 2021-10-11 22:46 Am I considering buying a Källa? The answer to that can only be a yes! Unfortunately, I can’t just plug a Källa into my system (being an Exakt only system) which means I have to sell everything and start again, but I’m working on a roadmap as we speak!
Your Exakt system has an analogue input though.
Does it?
No. However, looking on Linn Docs I’ve discovered that I’ve got a KDS/2 (Exakt variant), not a KDS/1.
Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2292
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: North East of The Black Country, UK

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Spannko »

sunbeamgls wrote: 2021-10-12 16:34
jajo wrote: 2021-10-12 15:58
sunbeamgls wrote: 2021-10-12 15:44 Your Exakt system has an analogue input though.
Without going too much off-topic, but connecting a Källa to the analogue input of an Exakt system is going to be inferior and more expensive than abandoning Exakt.

Exakt primarily makes sense with an Exakt source, otherwise I would strongly advice against it.
Its not a given at all. There are still benefits with an analogue source, if one is of the opinion that there are benefits with Exakt, which spannko may recognise, having invested.

Personally, I'd be listening before deciding.
Plugging a Källa into an Exakt system makes no sense at all! I don’t believe Katalyst/Exakt has the finesse to allow the Källa’s output to be amplified without totally skrewing up what it does well. It’ll turn an unbelievably musical presentation into a wall of sound with reasonably tuneful and rhythmical sound effects thrown in for good measure.

Källa has introduced a paradigm shift. It’s re-written the rule book. Forget what you think you knew. It doesn’t apply any more!

Benefits with Exakt? Maybe, although that’s never been a consideration for me. After all, “Exakt” is nothing more than marketing speak for a digital crossover with dsp. It’ll have its disadvantages too.
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by lejonklou »

sunbeamgls wrote: 2021-10-12 15:25
David Neel wrote: 2021-10-08 11:00 20211008_105317.jpg
Is the change to grey lettering just for Kalla, or a change of direction for all new builds please Fredrik?
All new products/builds will have the grey logo.
anthony
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 786
Joined: 2007-02-04 22:39
Location: UK

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by anthony »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-10-12 20:22
sunbeamgls wrote: 2021-10-12 15:25
David Neel wrote: 2021-10-08 11:00 20211008_105317.jpg
Is the change to grey lettering just for Kalla, or a change of direction for all new builds please Fredrik?
All new products/builds will have the grey logo.
I remember Linn lk280 went from white to grey, the grey looked more subtle.
sunbeamgls
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1087
Joined: 2012-04-04 15:19
Location: North Wales
Contact:

Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by sunbeamgls »

Spannko wrote: 2021-10-12 17:04
David Neel wrote: 2021-10-12 16:48
sunbeamgls wrote: 2021-10-12 15:44

Your Exakt system has an analogue input though.
Does it?
No. However, looking on Linn Docs I’ve discovered that I’ve got a KDS/2 (Exakt variant), not a KDS/1.
Ah, I had assumed a DSM. My bad.
KSH/0; KEBox/2; 3x Tundra Stereo 2.5; PMC fact.12. Blogger. Exakt Design. SO measuring.
Post Reply