Recommended network components

[lejonklou]

When you say "the wall socket next to [your HiFi power strip]", do you mean another duplex outlet/socket, or do you mean where the "digital power strip" is plugged in? Putting it another way: if you're only powering the switch, do you still need the digital power strip, or can the switch be plugged into the double socket with the HiFi power strip? I'd be surprised if it were worse plugged in place of the digital power strip, but stranger things have happened...

I'm saying that powering the switch from the first outlet of a separate power strip (the "digital strip") is better than plugging the switch directly into the wall.

Looking at it from angle of the mains power, there should preferably be a certain distance between the HiFi and the network switch.

[tokenbrit]

.. powering the switch from the first outlet of a separate power strip (the "digital strip") is better than plugging the switch directly into the wall.

Looking at it from angle of the mains power, there should preferably be a certain distance between the HiFi and the network switch.

Thanks for all the work to come up with these recommendations and for the clarification. It looks like I'm going to need another power strip... :/

[David Neel]

.. powering the switch from the first outlet of a separate power strip (the "digital strip") is better than plugging the switch directly into the wall.

Looking at it from angle of the mains power, there should preferably be a certain distance between the HiFi and the network switch.

Thanks for all the work to come up with these recommendations and for the clarification. It looks like I'm going to need another power strip... :/

+1

Thank you, Fredrik. I'm going to need another strip too...
Would it be okay to put the LSNAS onto this strip? And a table lamp?

[lejonklou]

Thank you, Fredrik. I'm going to need another strip too...
Would it be okay to put the LSNAS onto this strip? And a table lamp?

That's what I used to have until recently. It sounded great.

[springwood64]

I have a dedicated fused ring for my hifi. My router and network components are downstairs on a different shared ring main off the main fuseboard.

I previously had the Hakai, Axis, Kinki, Boazu all connected to their own individual dedicated mains powered wall sockets.

The Hakai ethernet port is connected by 1.2m of BJC to a LAN wall socket that connects over about 5m of Cat5e to a Netgear GS108T downstairs, powered off a different ring main. The Netgear GS108T is connected via 2.5m of BJC to the ISP modem/router and wifi. Hakai is on port 8 of the G108T and the router on port 7. All other ports are disabled.

I changed the power connection of the hifi components to the arrangement shown in Frederik's guide. All components are now connected to a cheap basic 4-way mains extender (no light or switches), plugged into a single mains socket:

1. Hakai
2. Axis
3. Kinki
4. Boazu

This brought a surprising and pleasant improvement.

I then moved the Netgear GS108T upstairs and plugged it into another 4-way mains extender off the second socket of the same mains point as the hifi. Hakai was connected via 2.5m BJC to port 8, and the wall LAN socket connected to port 7.

Despite switching the orientation of the cable connecting Hakai and GS108T this immediately sounded noticeably and considerably worse than connecting the GS108T downstairs.

I have reverted to the arrangement of the Netgear GS108T downstairs and musical harmony has been restored.

[lejonklou]

Thank you Pete!

Optimising the network appears to require trial and error, but with the help of reports like yours, patterns can emerge that will cut that trial and error down to a minimum.

[ThomasOK]

My network setup is a little different (it appears pretty much like everybody). But I thought I'd see if there was any input on it here as I can't quite connect things up as recommended.

My cable modem is in the office/TV room/guest bedroom along with a 2008 MacPro, a couple printers, etc. The network goes from the cable modem to an Eero Pro Wireless unit/router that handles the IP addresses. Problem one is that it only has two RJ45 ports, one connects to the cable modem and the other to the rest of the network so I can't connect it directly to the switch in the living room for the Källa. Problem two is that even though the Eero was touted as strong enough to handle the whole house, it doesn't reach reliably to the front of the house any better than my older Airport Extreme did.

So the network is configured thus:
Cable modem to Eero Pro via good cable (good cable means one of the better Microconnects or a BJC)
Eero Pro to Netgear GS108 (not T) via good cable
GS108 to MacPro, laser printer, photo printer/scanner and also with a 10 meter Microconnect cable to the Living Room.
Living Room has the 10 meter cable connected to a GS108T.
GS108T connects to the Källa and also to my older Airport Extreme to give reliable WiFi.
So I have one extra thing connected to the Källa GS108T, the Airport Extreme WAP (with other functions disabled).

Considering this I wondered if there were any suggestions. One thought was that I could connect the 10M cable from the computer room GS108 to the Airport Extreme In port use one of it's Out ports to the LR GS108T. This would get me back to just two units connected to the Källa GS108T but still give me reliable WiFi. Another question is whether there is any information on WAPs and if there are some that make for more musical perfromance with Källa. If there is a WAP that is particularly good I'd get one for the LR part of the network.

Lastly, prompted by a comment by springboard64 above, is it advisable/more musical to turn off unused ports on the GS108T? I haven't done this. Thanks for any ideas.

[Defender]

I have played with switching of unused ports in the 108T and also changing the cable length adjustment because it only has to drive 2,5m cables and not 10 or 100m my thought was the higher the current/power to drive longer lengths the higher the side effects or reflections from the other end of the cable.
At that time I thought it was better but I was not reliable with tune dem and didnt had the Källa microscope for testing. This time I only tested Källa with standard company settings and I was happy.

[springwood64]

Lastly, prompted by a comment by springboard64 above, is it advisable/more musical to turn off unused ports on the GS108T? I haven't done this. Thanks for any ideas.

I could not hear a reliable difference as a result of disabling the ports, but left them disabled.

[springwood64]

@thomasok is it worth replacing the Eero? I'm using a TP-Link Archer C2100 which has 1 input and 4 outputs plus decent 2.4GHz and 5GHz WiFi.

My house is timber and the WiFi covers 2 floors up to 15m from the router. That way you could connect the GS108T direct to the guest room.

I also use a TP-Link Re220 range extender. This connects via WiFi over 2.4 or 5 and offers another 5GHz or 2.4GHz access points. No need to connect this via ethernet.

You can use an RE220 or similar to connect an ethernet port over WiFi. The Re220 has a single ethernet port and can connect to the rest of the network via Wifi

[tokenbrit]

To be confirmed over the next few weeks, but initial impression as follows: (not a wifi coverage issue; just cable management...)
Setup: TP-Link router on one side of the room opposite the hifi system, and a desktop computer + NASes connected by Ethernet.
In anticipation of connecting just a Källa to the 108T, avoiding a second 25' or longer cable across the floor to connect the 108 non-T and desktop NASes, I tried an Airport Express as a wifi client, and Ethernet connection for the streamer (wifi back to the TP-Link... (AE straight to streamer w/out 108T))
I then compared this against running the 2nd long Ethernet cable across the floor to the 108T, on to the streamer.
AE was plugged in to the same duplex outlet as the distribution block for the HiFi. The 108T (& 108) was plugged in to the next duplex socket on the same circuit.
So a few changes at the same time - WiFi/Ethernet; without/with 108T; changed electrical outlet - but Ethernet with 108T instantly felt more musically comfortable; the AE just felt agitated in comparison. I'll be making Ethernet & dedicated 108T the heart of the streaming network - just need to optimize MicroConnect vs BJC, and location & orientation of the PS. (will try disabling ports to see if that helps too)

[ThomasOK]

Thanks for the ideas, Pete. It would certainly be possible to replace the Eero. Indeed since the performance in the front of the house is no better than with the Apple unit it replaced I'm not too thrilled with it. I could even just put the Apple unit back there again although my new iPad Mini is giving me a message that the Airport Extreme is not secure but the Eero is?

Anyway, that was in part why I was asking if any particular WiFi routers had been found to be more musical than others. So far it doesn't appear anybody has tried testing a bunch of those for musical merit. I'll keep the TP-Link C2100 in mind. I have one of their extenders elsewhere to connect some stuff I didn't want to hassle with running wires to and it seems to work fine.

[tokenbrit]

Thanks for the ideas, Pete. It would certainly be possible to replace the Eero. Indeed since the performance in the front of the house is no better than with the Apple unit it replaced I'm not too thrilled with it. I could even just put the Apple unit back there again although my new iPad Mini is giving me a message that the Airport Extreme is not secure but the Eero is?

Anyway, that was in part why I was asking if any particular WiFi routers had been found to be more musical than others. So far it doesn't appear anybody has tried testing a bunch of those for musical merit. I'll keep the TP-Link C2100 in mind. I have one of their extenders elsewhere to connect some stuff I didn't want to hassle with running wires to and it seems to work fine.

The iPad mini has a MAC address setting for connecting to WiFi networks that appears to be meant for maintaining privacy when connecting to different public networks, but can result in reporting a network as insecure if you have it set to off...

Another TP-Link user here - might be able to provide comparison clips here (against Airport Express) in the near future, but don't know if they'll tell you how it will all sound in yours :?

[David Neel]

It was a very long time ago since I compared powering the router and the switch from the same power strip. I have forgotten if there's an advantage to it. Does anyone want to share their experience with this?

I'm using a Huawei/EE 4G (sim card) router. I had the GS108T psu plugged directly into the wall socket adjacent to the one powering the hifi. I then followed Fredrik's advice to use a power strip, and to the additional sockets I added the LSNAS, a table lamp, and this router. It was okay, but some of the magic had gone, so I removed all except the GS108T and the LSNAS, and the magic returned. Added the table lamp, still good. So the router now has a very long extension strip to a faraway wall socket.

[lejonklou]

Time for an update.

As I've caught a cold (a regular, old-fashioned cold) for the first time in several years, I've been limited to doing some simple and non-exhaustive work. So I sat down on the living room floor and listened through a small pile of items I had gathered there in November. Alternative switch, power supplies for the switches, network cables and from where to power the switch.

Switches: Once again the Netgear GS-108T came out as the best. Compared it with GS-108v4 that someone recommended. Cleaner, stiffer, not bad but lacking flow.

Power supply: Once again Model AD810000 that came supplied with the GS-108T came out as the best. Various other Netgear and AcBel models were tried.

Network cables: I recently ordered a new white Blue Jeans CAT6a in length 8.5 feet and this is the best ethernet cable I have ever heard in my system! Better than my old and best Microconnect. I don't know if the Blue Jeans cables vary in performance, between specimen or over time, but I have never heard one sounding so good before. Perhaps they've improved something in their production. The previous ones I listened to are more than 4 years old.

Where to power the switch: As mentioned, I have an old and good 4-way strip from Clas Ohlson with a very short 0.6 m (2 feet) power cord. The switch sits in the first outlet of this strip and then there's nothing else.
The wall outlets are double, so there's one free above the outlet that powers the HiFi (through two daisy-chained 5-way strips). Then I have more double outlets in the room and they are all fed from the same wires in the wall, coming from the same fuse in the central fusebox. As it so happens, an outlet that is 6 m of wall cable away from the HiFi's outlet is perfectly possible to reach with my 4-way strip. So I could either power the strip with the switch from the outlet above the HiFi outlet, or from an outlet 6 m away.

The outlet above the HiFi outlet was the best. The difference was rather small between these two, but still something was lost when moving the switch 6 m away. The sound felt as if cleaned up, slightly separated, but there was a little less rhythmic tension in the music.

As I have mentioned before; removing the 4-way strip with its 0.6 m of cable and powering the switch directly from the wall outlet above the HiFi outlet is worse. And this difference is a lot bigger than moving it away by 6 m!

This may all seem rather mysterious and difficult to comprehend, but it confirms the same pattern that I have repeatedly found over more than ten years, using many different streamers: The switch (and if applicable, NAS) should be powered from a separate strip, connected to an outlet of its own, but close to the outlet powering the HiFi.

[tokenbrit]

Hope you feel better soon, and definitely in time for Christmas, Fredrik.

Thanks for confirming the recommendations. Just one question: since you've advised that Källa and the cable back to the router should be all that's plugged into the 108T, those of us with a NAS will have that & a 2nd switch to power - I know you said your NAS is misbehaving, so in principle if not in practice, should/would these be ok powered from the same strip as the 108T, or better on their own strip from a nearby outlet on the same circuit?

[lejonklou]

Thanks tokenbrit!

If you have a NAS, it's best powered off the same power strip as the switch. The order is switch first, NAS second.

I also think you should connect the NAS to the same switch as Källa. No need for a second switch.

This assumes the NAS is located close to Källa, switch and HiFi. It it's elsewhere and/or streaming services are prioritized, there might be more optimal arrangements.

[Azazello]

Switches: Once again the Netgear GS-108T came out as the best. Compared it with GS-108v4 that someone recommended. Cleaner, stiffer, not bad but lacking flow.

What version of 108T are you using? The currently available one seems to be called Netgear Pro GS108Tv3

[lejonklou]

What version of 108T are you using? The currently available one seems to be called Netgear Pro GS108Tv3

I have a GS-108Tv2. Haven't tried v3 yet.

My guess is that they're very similar.

[tokenbrit]

Thanks tokenbrit!

If you have a NAS, it's best powered off the same power strip as the switch. The order is switch first, NAS second.

I also think you should connect the NAS to the same switch as Källa. No need for a second switch.

This assumes the NAS is located close to Källa, switch and HiFi. It it's elsewhere and/or streaming services are prioritized, there might be more optimal arrangements.

Much appreciated - thanks Fredrik. For a while at least I plan to balance streaming & NAS, but will likely prioritise streaming at some point in the future... good to know the recommended initial setup for this (& that streaming might get a slight boost if/when I demote the NAS)

Another question: is there consensus on port order on the 108T - should Kalla be in 8 and cable back to the router in 7, or vice-versa?

[ThomasOK]

On the Källa page on the main Lejonklou website is a document "Recommended Setup for Källa". It shows port 8 for Källa and port 7 for Router with WiFi. It doesn't show the recommended cables but considering the latest postings I think it is safe to say 8.5 foot (or longer if needed) BJC CAT6a is the current recommendation.

[tokenbrit]

On the Källa page on the main Lejonklou website is a document "Recommended Setup for Källa". It shows port 8 for Källa and port 7 for Router with WiFi. It doesn't show the recommended cables but considering the latest postings I think it is safe to say 8.5 foot (or longer if needed) BJC CAT6a is the current recommendation.

Thanks Thomas, I hadn't noticed but it does indeed - I appreciate the subtle & helpful RTFM* :)


* relish the fine(st) music ;)

[David Neel]

The first time I heard RTFM, I asked what it meant. I was told: "please read the manual...." I was puzzled for a few seconds.

[lejonklou]

On the Källa page on the main Lejonklou website is a document "Recommended Setup for Källa". It shows port 8 for Källa and port 7 for Router with WiFi. It doesn't show the recommended cables but considering the latest postings I think it is safe to say 8.5 foot (or longer if needed) BJC CAT6a is the current recommendation.

Yes it seems that the higher the port number, the better the port sounds, on the GS-108T. It's been tested on a couple of units, so possibly originating from something in its design. But I can't guarantee it's not a coincidence and actually random. Anyway the differences are small.

[u252agz]

I am finding these networks quite confusing.

I have my router connected to both the GS 108T switch and the BT Mesh Wi Fi unit with 3m Cat 5 cables, all three units using the same power strip.

Kalla is connected to the switch with a long Cat 5 cable ( 5-7.5m), and shares its power strip with the HI Fi units.

Is this OK.

BTW Kalla sounds great but I am now wondering if it could be even better.