Källa As A Streamer

[FairPlayMotty]

Källa is an exciting and potentially revolutionary audio product.

I thought I'd start a thread that's not about Apple TV, AE or Apple Corporate Governance.

I'd like to know if any of the workarounds has been tested for Källa using a NAS.

[teatime]

I would expect any device that can access files on a NAS and output sound via AirPlay to work for this usecase. Maybe Apple doesn't want your phone to be able to do it, but surely a regular macbook or similar device would?

[FairPlayMotty]

I know it can be done. The key question for me is, how musical is Källa using a NAS workaround?

[matthias]

I know it can be done. The key question for me is, how musical is Källa using a NAS workaround?

Källa will even in a NAS environment be musical, but for me its clear that it is not designed for a NAS.
As Fredrik mentioned music from Spotify sounds better than the same from a NAS. BTW, also with a Taiko Extreme is music from the best streaming services better than from a NAS. In my view is a NAS a thing of the past.......the future is streaming.

Matt

[FairPlayMotty]

Källa will even in a NAS environment be musical, but for me its clear that it is not designed for a NAS.
As Fredrik mentioned music from Spotify sounds better than the same from a NAS. BTW, also with a Taiko Extreme is music from the best streaming services better than from a NAS. In my view is a NAS a thing of the past.......the future is streaming.

Matt,

Is the assumption that the NAS HW and/or noise detracts more than a streaming service does?

[tokenbrit]

I know it can be done. The key question for me is, how musical is Källa using a NAS workaround?

Källa will even in a NAS environment be musical, but for me its clear that it is not designed for a NAS.
As Fredrik mentioned music from Spotify sounds better than the same from a NAS. BTW, also with a Taiko Extreme is music from the best streaming services better than from a NAS. In my view is a NAS a thing of the past.......the future is streaming.

Matt

If the future is streaming, and my CDs are a thing of the past, then my future might well be vinyl. I'm already frustrated that a lot of 70s & 80s albums are only available streamed as digital remasters...

[matthias]

If the future is streaming, and my CDs are a thing of the past, then my future might well be vinyl. I'm already frustrated that a lot of 70s & 80s albums are only available streamed as digital remasters...

Physical transports for analog or digital are en vogue like streaming is.

Matt

[FairPlayMotty]

I'm in the same boat as Tokenbrit. For my favourite musical performers I have a variety of digital masters which I have thoroughly tested on my NAS. I very much doubt that ANY streaming service has gone to that level of detail.

Streaming is obviously the future. If anyone with kids doesn't know that they're not paying attention.

I'm puzzled as to why a streaming service via lossy would sound more musical than my minimal software NAS. My assumption would have been I had a more direct signal path than a streaming service.

[matthias]

Is the assumption that the NAS HW and/or noise detracts more than a streaming service does?

I think with playing from a NAS is more network activity involved than with streaming but there might be other reasons.

Matt

[tokenbrit]

I'm in the same boat as Tokenbrit. For my favourite musical performers I have a variety of digital masters which I have thoroughly tested on my NAS. I very much doubt that ANY streaming service has gone to that level of detail.

Streaming is obviously the future. If anyone with kids doesn't know that they're not paying attention.

I'm puzzled as to why a streaming service via lossy would sound more musical than my minimal software NAS. My assumption would have been I had a more direct signal path than a streaming service.

My guess would be because the streaming service is a digital file copy and is/can be closer to the master*, even if streamed in a lossy format, rather than written to a CD, with musical quality of rips dependent on the transport, format, transfer, storage, etc...

* or musically removed through remastering

[matthias]

I'm puzzled as to why a streaming service via lossy would sound more musical than my minimal software NAS. My assumption would have been I had a more direct signal path than a streaming service.

It is not easy to understand.......sometimes with streaming you get the impression to be with the musicians in one room.

Matt

[FairPlayMotty]

My guess would be because the streaming service is a digital file copy and is/can be closer to the master*, even if streamed in a lossy format, rather than written to a CD, with musical quality of rips dependent on the transport, format, transfer, storage, etc...

* or musically removed through remastering

I've tested that with a few landmark albums for me. Say, Rickie Lee Jones debut. There's only one digital master that replicates (or betters) the vinyl. The hardware and software issues are surely the same at the streaming company end as in our situation. Has anyone blind tested like for like masters? In the past few days I've heard streaming 2021 "remasters" that are ( to my ears) significantly worse than the original flac files.

[teatime]

Streaming is obviously the future.

Yes, this is hard to argue against. Personally, I play vinyl or stream. My thousands of ripped CDs on the NAS almost never get a spin these days.

But the downside to streaming only is obvious. Music that used to be available on your service disappears (several high profile artists have on occasion had their content removed from various streaming services, and no doubt large swaths of lesser known content come and go as the controlling agreements end or change) or is altered in a way that you do not agree with (Tidal/MQA being the obvious example).

[FairPlayMotty]

Yes, this is hard to argue against. Personally, I play vinyl or stream. My thousands of ripped CDs on the NAS almost never get a spin these days.

But the downside to streaming only is obvious. Music that used to be available on your service disappears (several high profile artists have on occasion had their content removed from various streaming services, and no doubt large swaths of lesser known content come and go as the controlling agreements end or change) or is altered in a way that you do not agree with (Tidal/MQA being the obvious example).

I agree. For my favourite artists my NAS had several masters of the same artist (e.g. Steely Dan, Joni Mitchell, Nick Drake, Bob Dylan, Van Morrison etc,) - I don't buy for a second that streaming companies do such detailed comparisons. And I do know that I like many artists whose CDs are extremely rare. I guess that having invested the time and money in "maximising" my NAS I don't trust a streaming service to have covered my needs as well as my humble efforts have.

[tokenbrit]

... The hardware and software issues are surely the same at the streaming company end as in our situation... In the past few days I've heard streaming 2021 "remasters" that are ( to my ears) significantly worse than the original flac files.

I could be wrong but thought I read that the streaming companies get file copies straight from the music publishers. If true then that'd remove some of the hardware and software issues, maybe with (re)formatting too, but can introduce the digital watermarking, of course.
Same experience here with remastered, unfortunately

[FairPlayMotty]

... The hardware and software issues are surely the same at the streaming company end as in our situation... In the past few days I've heard streaming 2021 "remasters" that are ( to my ears) significantly worse than the original flac files.

I could be wrong but thought I read that the streaming companies get file copies straight from the music publishers. If true then that'd remove some of the hardware and software issues, maybe with (re)formatting too, but can introduce the digital watermarking, of course.
Same experience here with remastered, unfortunately

Some of the "original master" claims are false - for example Stevie Wonder keeps the original master tapes at his home despite various record companies claiming that they source their masters from the original masters. The music publishers had no idea what were the original masters for Dylan's master works shortly after the recording sessions, why would a streaming service know now? We've been through this game with HDTracks and it didn't end well with them (for the artists I know well).

[tokenbrit]

Some of the "original master" claims are false - for example Stevie Wonder keeps the original master tapes at his home despite various record companies claiming that they source their masters from the original masters. The music publishers had no idea what were the original masters for Dylan's master works shortly after the recording sessions, why would a streaming service know now?

I don't doubt it. Even if a streaming service is good now I'm not sure I'd trust that to always be the case as evidenced by Tidal & MQA. That's why playing music from my NAS would be a must, for me, more musically than my current solution.

[FairPlayMotty]

Some of the "original master" claims are false - for example Stevie Wonder keeps the original master tapes at his home despite various record companies claiming that they source their masters from the original masters. The music publishers had no idea what were the original masters for Dylan's master works shortly after the recording sessions, why would a streaming service know now?

I don't doubt it. Even if a streaming service is good now I'm not sure I'd trust that to always be the case as evidenced by Tidal & MQA. That's why playing music from my NAS would be a must, for me, more musically than my current solution.

Same for me!

[Spannko]

I agree. For my favourite artists my NAS had several masters of the same artist (e.g. Steely Dan, Joni Mitchell, Nick Drake, Bob Dylan, Van Morrison etc,) - I don't buy for a second that streaming companies do such detailed comparisons. And I do know that I like many artists whose CDs are extremely rare. I guess that having invested the time and money in "maximising" my NAS I don't trust a streaming service to have covered my needs as well as my humble efforts have.

Qobuz stream multiple versions/masterings of the same album, where available. For example, the Replacements album Pleased to Meet Me is available as the original, the 2008 remaster or the 2020 remaster. Another example is the original Graceland mastering is available, along with the 25th anniversary remaster.

[donuk]

When you purchase a file from a streaming company, what do you get?
I have never heard a purchased Qobuz file sounding worse than a Qobuz streamed one?
Should it?

Donuk

[John]

I agree. For my favourite artists my NAS had several masters of the same artist (e.g. Steely Dan, Joni Mitchell, Nick Drake, Bob Dylan, Van Morrison etc,) - I don't buy for a second that streaming companies do such detailed comparisons. And I do know that I like many artists whose CDs are extremely rare. I guess that having invested the time and money in "maximising" my NAS I don't trust a streaming service to have covered my needs as well as my humble efforts have.

Qobuz stream multiple versions/masterings of the same album, where available. For example, the Replacements album Pleased to Meet Me is available as the original, the 2008 remaster or the 2020 remaster. Another example is the original Graceland mastering is available, along with the 25th anniversary remaster.

So does Spotify, they have the same multiple versions you mention.

[Spannko]

I agree. For my favourite artists my NAS had several masters of the same artist (e.g. Steely Dan, Joni Mitchell, Nick Drake, Bob Dylan, Van Morrison etc,) - I don't buy for a second that streaming companies do such detailed comparisons. And I do know that I like many artists whose CDs are extremely rare. I guess that having invested the time and money in "maximising" my NAS I don't trust a streaming service to have covered my needs as well as my humble efforts have.

Qobuz stream multiple versions/masterings of the same album, where available. For example, the Replacements album Pleased to Meet Me is available as the original, the 2008 remaster or the 2020 remaster. Another example is the original Graceland mastering is available, along with the 25th anniversary remaster.

So does Spotify, they have the same multiple versions you mention.

Thanks for letting us know. Hopefully, as time goes by, all of the originals and remasters will be made available.

[Defender]

you have probably heard about what happened yesterday to Facebook instagram whatsapp and many other providers of internet services.
I always liked to own music either in a physical format or at least own the digital file to have it available when I want and not depend on any other service. The issue yesterday is one example which supports that strategy.

What are the options with Källa to use music I own - even if its less musical - as a second option or plan B?

[jajo]

you have probably heard about what happened yesterday to Facebook instagram whatsapp and many other providers of internet services.
I always liked to own music either in a physical format or at least own the digital file to have it available when I want and not depend on any other service. The issue yesterday is one example which supports that strategy.

What are the options with Källa to use music I own - even if its less musical - as a second option or plan B?

There are many options. All you need is an iOS app that can connect to your NAS and play your FLAC files. You don't even need a Källa to test these scenarios as you can just experiment with these apps on your phone. If you hear your music through the iPhone builtin speakers it means that it can be sent to Källa.

https://apps.apple.com/se/app/mconnect- ... d503760460

This is an app that I have tried and it works great for playing FLAC/ALAC from basically anywhere (local files on your phone, NAS etc).

[Defender]

thank you jajo - how much performance hit do I have to expect? I know its a difficult question but maybe you have an idea