Recommended network components

[lejonklou]

I played around a bit with the network this weekend. Let's see what you think.

A) https://www.dropbox.com/s/ipo6h29fy4ayh ... M.mov?dl=0
B) https://www.dropbox.com/s/npw2hk6v5fsck ... M.mov?dl=0
C) https://www.dropbox.com/s/09nnr1qqsvsay ... M.mov?dl=0

I’m torn. I think all three does something right and looses something else.

A seems most rhythmical in the low bass, but it lacks some emotion in the performance.

B has a lot of emotion and I could choose it for that parameter, but there’s some rhythmical anomaly in the low bass, like it’s dragging.

C sounds most sharp and distinct, but looses the emotion. I enjoy it the least.

[beck]

Defender, you should try recording the same setup many times during a whole week to see if you get the same result all the time or it changes. :-)

the more I think about it the more I think that you might have a point.

which one of the two did you liked better?

I get a more emotional response when listening to purple than when listening to white.

Digital is so hard to get “right”. Just look at all the time I have used setting up my cd player. :-0

[Tendaberry]

I played around a bit with the network this weekend. Let's see what you think.

A) https://www.dropbox.com/s/ipo6h29fy4ayh ... M.mov?dl=0
B) https://www.dropbox.com/s/npw2hk6v5fsck ... M.mov?dl=0
C) https://www.dropbox.com/s/09nnr1qqsvsay ... M.mov?dl=0

A bit tricky: A has the best rhythm, there's something slightly off there in B. On the other hand, her voice grabs me more on B. C is a bit plodding.

[springwood64]

Didn't sound great initially, but seem to be improving

After a few days I couldn't leave the new cables in place. I reinstated the two old white cat6a BJC 2.5m. I was wrong when I earlier said the old cables were 5e.

I now have the new cables on non-musical duties and I'll retest them in a few weeks time, to hear if they have improved.

In the meantime I compared the two old cables between Hakai and GS108T and found one sounds notably better than the other. Both sound better than all three new black cat6a cables.

I also tested removing the GS108T from between the Hakai and the Amplifi HD, but this was a distinct step backwards.

[tokenbrit]

Does Kalla care about IPv6? My ISP doesn't support IPv6 so I just wondered if it could/should be disabled on my router(s)... (clearly it's an IPv4 address in Kalla settings)

(apols if this should be asked in some other thread; I thought it might be relevant to network component config, possibly)

[ThomasOK]

OK, so here's what is going on. I did a major reorganization of my network last weekend. Here are the beginning and end points:

WiFisetup2.jpeg

I had been having problems with the network in that neither the AirPort Extreme, nor the Eero 5 I bought to replace it had the range to cover the house. I also had a wireless repeater I bought to test an idea another dealer gave me (which didn't work) and used it to run my TV system. I found out later that the WiFi repeaters suck up to half the bandwidth to operate. Combine that with having two different WiFi networks and sign ins and it was a hassle to use plus the iPad would occasionally lose connection to the Källa (I leave it running during the day for Lily).

So when I read about the AmplifiHD improving the musical quality of the system I saw the opportunity to get better sound and make the network more compact and logical. The AmplifiHD having a 4 port switch built in allowed me to connect the computer and two printers as well as another cable to the main router/WiFi unit and remove the GS108 from the computer area. I then ran a cable to the TV area in the same room and used the GS108 over there to connect the TV, AppleTV and Majik DSM. You can see the beginning and endpoints of the network in the chart.

I should mention that there are BJC 8.5 foot cables connected to the Källa and the AmplifiHD in the front and a Microconnect of about the same length from the cable modem to the AmplifiHD in the office. A 10 meter cable that I think is an APC, but might be a Microconnect, was running from the office to the Hi-Fi and now has been rerouted to the GS108 for the TV system.

How this relates to the clips is this.
Clip A - the beginning system as shown in the top diagram (3 cables to GS108T v2: office GS108, Källa, AirPort Extreme)
Clip C - the ending setup as shown on the bottom of the diagram, basically the setup Fredrik and others use
Clip B - similar to the ending setup but with a wired connection to the GS108T v2 from the main AmplifiHD and the front AmplifiHD not connected

Interestingly most seem to prefer clip B with a wired connection running from the AmplifiHD router in the office to the GS108T v2 by the Hi-Fi. In room my feeling was that the clip C setup was more musical but there are a few minutes between the two. I just went back and listened to the three clips again and I still like C the best. I understand the comment that C might have gone too far as it definitely clarifies the instruments and voice to me, allowing more nuances to be heard, but I don't find that to be a bad thing. I did several comparisons using from about .47 to the end to compare the drums and lead vocals where I find the texture of the hands on drums and the subtleties of her vocal inflections clearer on C. I also listened to the part before that, starting around .33 using the tune method as strictly as possible on the accordion and backing vocals. I did find B quite enjoyable and C again more textured but I still felt C was more tuneful. I don't really get the idea that A has better rhythm as to me B and C are better on getting me to move and the drumming, but that's just how I hear it.

The comments make me consider going back to try wired vs. wireless again but that does complicate things. For one thing the 10 meter cable is just about 1 meter too short to make it from the logical place for the office AmplifiHD and the Hi-Fi GS108Tv2. (So, yes, it was positioned in a different position for the wired clip - another variable!). Secondly, that cable is now running to the TV system, although I was going to replace it with a shorter cable anyway. Third is that there aren't enough ports on the AmplifiHD for the Mac, 2 printers and cables to the TV system and the front. So if wired was best I'd probably need another switch and a longer BJC cable, although the MacPro has two net ports so I might be able to hook one printer to the second MacPro port. Right now I'm going to let everything sit and burn in for a while. I'll also stick the three new BJC cables I received yesterday into the TV system to let them burn in before I try cable swaps to find the ranking of the 5 I have. One last thing is that after the three clips I also set the Källa with a fixed IP address (easy to find the right info on the AmplifiHD) which gave a definite further improvement. I did not make a clip of that.

Overall I am quite liking the AmplifiHD setup. They were quite easy to setup and the system is now unified. It also has been very solid so far. The only real difficulty was going through and putting the new WiFi settings in my Tesla (simple), garage door opener (hassle, but at least I'm tall enough not to need the recommended ladder to do it) and thermostat (which gave me fits, thanks Google). But that is all done now and everything is running smoothly.

[ThomasOK]

Nice track: Loreena Mckennitt?

Yes. It is part of "The Mummer's Dance" from her album The Visit which came out in 1991.

As a side note, when I searched for "The Mummer's Dance" to make sure I had the right title I found an official music video for it from Loreena. It appears to be a live, or possibly remixed, version. Personally I find it more Hi-Fi and less musical than the original, but that could be just me.

[matthias]

Yes. It is part of "The Mummer's Dance" from her album The Visit which came out in 1991.

I found it only on the album "The Book of Secrets" from 1997 and on two Live albums

[tpetsch]

again a comparison of blue jeans cables - same length

white
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b0ephz14q9sxb ... 0.mov?dl=0

purple
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2shmfui88auq ... 3.mov?dl=0

all I can say is rather order more than the number of blue jeans cables you need to have some chances - there is noticable variation

which do you enjoy more white or purple?

For me I enjoy the White.

Saying that, I did prefer the overall tone of the Purple but it was a bit of an overall mess. But the White holds it all together musically and is more in tune.

[ThomasOK]

Yes. It is part of "The Mummer's Dance" from her album The Visit which came out in 1991.

I found it only on the album "The Book of Secrets" from 1997 and on two Live albums

You're right. It is "The Book of Secrets", not "The Visit" (although that is my other favorite of hers).

[lejonklou]

OK, so here's what is going on. I did a major reorganization of my network last weekend. Here are the beginning and end points:

Interesting stuff, Thomas!

A question: Can the North American power adapter for the Amplifi be plugged in two ways? If so, did you try both ways? I found that in particular the one near Källa, powered after the switch, made quite a difference.

[ThomasOK]

OK, so here's what is going on. I did a major reorganization of my network last weekend. Here are the beginning and end points:

Interesting stuff, Thomas!

A question: Can the North American power adapter for the Amplifi be plugged in two ways? If so, did you try both ways? I found that in particular the one near Källa, powered after the switch, made quite a difference.

Good thinking. It can be and of course I forgot to try it both ways. I meant to ask if it made a difference and forgot to do so.
Something else to try.

[lejonklou]

Does Kalla care about IPv6? My ISP doesn't support IPv6 so I just wondered if it could/should be disabled on my router(s)... (clearly it's an IPv4 address in Kalla settings)

(apols if this should be asked in some other thread; I thought it might be relevant to network component config, possibly)

Källa is compatible with both IPv4 and IPv6.

It’s very rare to have IPv6 addresses on your local network, but if you insist on using one, Källa will accept it through DHCP (Settings: Auto).

We recommend setting a fixed IP address on Källa’s web interface, because it improves musical performance. Currently the format for fixed IP addresses are IPv4.

[lejonklou]

Good thinking. It can be and of course I forgot to try it both ways. I meant to ask if it made a difference and forgot to do so.
Something else to try.

Cool. If the other way is better, just maybe that might solve my feeling of being torn.

[tokenbrit]

Does Kalla care about IPv6? My ISP doesn't support IPv6 so I just wondered if it could/should be disabled on my router(s)... (clearly it's an IPv4 address in Kalla settings)

(apols if this should be asked in some other thread; I thought it might be relevant to network component config, possibly)

Källa is compatible with both IPv4 and IPv6.

It’s very rare to have IPv6 addresses on your local network, but if you insist on using one, Källa will accept it through DHCP (Settings: Auto).

We recommend setting a fixed IP address on Källa’s web interface, because it improves musical performance. Currently the format for fixed IP addresses are IPv4.

Thank you Fredrik. I don't use IPv6 addresses, and the 108Tv2 doesn't appear to support them... Since my ISP doesn't seem to support it and, much more importantly, Kalla benefits from the fixed IP(v4) address I disabled it on my router. That didn't seem to make a difference, unsurprisingly given my ISP, but turning off the Application Layer Gateways on my router did appear to help. The only one that might be in play between Kalla & Spotify is the RTSP-ALG, as this is for the Real-Time Streaming Protocol... I figure taking load off the router might help/can't hurt, and having as little as possible affecting the streaming is worth trying.

[Defender]

today I switched my Amplifi HD in bridge mode. Reason was that my girlfriend/partner complained about dropouts in MS Teams while presenting - which I understand is annoying and she stated it started with me changing the network. O.k. so lets see how it works in bridge mode.

1. much more devices show up at the first Amplifi HD (which is close to the router)
2. I can not manage fixed IP addresses through the Amplifi HD anymore but now can through the FritzBox
3. I still have two WiFi‘s but now under one subnet

I might make a recording tonight after my Linn DS recovered from power cycling.
I hope its o.k. to post the recordings here even though the source is a Linn DS but I assume outcome or differences if any between bridge mode and non bridge mode would be the same for Källa.

[tokenbrit]

today I switched my Amplifi HD in bridge mode. Reason was that my girlfriend/partner complained about dropouts in MS Teams while presenting - which I understand is annoying and she stated it started with me changing the network. O.k. so lets see how it works in bridge mode...

I'm iterested in your results - we have a similar situation here which was why I started looking at router load, and what I could turn off... Expectation was that separate subnets would isolate networks, and should help, but we noticed something with Teams too... no other issues so I'm thinking Teams is a steaming pile :!

[Defender]

today I switched my Amplifi HD in bridge mode. Reason was that my girlfriend/partner complained about dropouts in MS Teams while presenting - which I understand is annoying and she stated it started with me changing the network. O.k. so lets see how it works in bridge mode...

I'm iterested in your results - we have a similar situation here which was why I started looking at router load, and what I could turn off... Expectation was that separate subnets would isolate networks, and should help, but we noticed something with Teams too... no other issues so I'm thinking Teams is a steaming pile :!

if you have two routers trying to manage addresses in the network that seems to create conflicts - I thought when the address is given no conflict should further occur but maybe because of dynamic addresses that thought was wrong.

so thank you Matthias for pointing the bridge mode out (lets see I hope there is no decrease in musicality)

[tokenbrit]

if you have two routers trying to manage addresses in the network that seems to create conflicts - I thought when the address is given no conflict should further occur but maybe because of dynamic addresses that thought was wrong.

I don't think it is wrong. Separate address space and netmasks should avoid conflicts and it's only Teams that is misbehaving... More important tho' is domestic & musical harmony, so whatever network setup achieves that is best ;)

[matthias]

so thank you Matthias for pointing the bridge mode out (lets see I hope there is no decrease in musicality)

Welcome Defender,
I think you are quite right that two routers create conflicts.......
Maybe the best way is to have a pure modem and then use the Amplifi as full router like Fredrik does.
In Germany it is often impossible to place the ISP router in Bridge mode, so the second best solution might be to place the Amplifi in Bridge mode. My gut feeling is that there is no decrease in musicality in comparison to a two router config,.
I am curious about your findings.

[tokenbrit]

I think you are quite right that two routers create conflicts....... My gut feeling is that there is no decrease in musicality in comparison to a two router config,.

Care to share what testing you've done to come to those statements?

Routers don't create conflicts; router configurations might tho'. Businesses run multiple routers without conflict... Home routers are typically simplified devices with limited configurability that might help manage business software's (multicast) network traffic, such as is generated by Teams.

It would be nice to determine whether work from home network traffic affects musical performance, or vice versa. If it does, then QoS or available config settings might help, but then it's a question of priorities and compromises... or listening outside of work hours.

[springwood64]

I configured my Amplifi in bridge mode from the outset, purely to keep the router functions (especially address assignment, as I have configured a lot of addresses) in one place: the existing modem/router.

I work from home and use Teams all the time with no problems since adding the Amplifi mesh.

I did not do any comparisons, so I don't know if this is more or less musical than bridge mode off in my setup.

[Defender]

here is the comparison between non bridge mode and bridge mode:

Purple:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2shmfui88auq ... 3.mov?dl=0

Rain:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jl3kr09hrokrd ... 3.mov?dl=0

… for Matthias (but not only for him) - what do you think?

[springwood64]

here is the comparison between non bridge mode and bridge mode:

Purple:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2shmfui88auq ... 3.mov?dl=0

Rain:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jl3kr09hrokrd ... 3.mov?dl=0

… for Matthias (but not only for him) - what do you think?

Purple sounds like it's slower. I prefer rain.

[matthias]

I think Rain is bridge mode, anyway I like Purple a bit more.
Maybe my hearing is impaired because of post-COVID?