Recommended network components

[Defender]

yes they are both blue Blue Jeans Cables Cat6a with what I would call only minimal differences in the measurements - sorry I brought the topic up - as I can now see how this was misleading. The measurements tell nothing about the musical performance. You need to test them to qualify them.

I am not sure if its the JBL 308 or the Amplifi‘s … maybe its both which works like a microscope with respect to musical differences.

[Spannko]

There are so many variables involved in different networks, I think it’s always going to be the case of finding what works best for you in your network.

Another factor to consider. In the Amplifi network which Amplifi is your source IPad device connected to? My iPad can see both Amplifis but I reckon it sounds better connected to the one nearest the system. Look in Devices in the Amplifi app to check.

Also what about setting a fixed IP for the source iPad?

If the second Amplifi is next to the HiFi, will the iPad automatically connect to it? Similarly, if the iPad is closer to the router Amplifi, then will it connect to that instead? Since you’re hearing a sound difference, this may be something to be aware of and could be an explanation for some of the differences people are hearing?

[matthias]

Who does walk around with the iPad in the hand during serious listening?

[macrotech2]

There are so many variables involved in different networks, I think it’s always going to be the case of finding what works best for you in your network.

Another factor to consider. In the Amplifi network which Amplifi is your source IPad device connected to? My iPad can see both Amplifis but I reckon it sounds better connected to the one nearest the system. Look in Devices in the Amplifi app to check.

Also what about setting a fixed IP for the source iPad?

If the second Amplifi is next to the HiFi, will the iPad automatically connect to it? Similarly, if the iPad is closer to the router Amplifi, then will it connect to that instead? Since you’re hearing a sound difference, this may be something to be aware of and could be an explanation for some of the differences people are hearing?

Yes it should connect to the stronger signal. What happened was I turned the system Amplifi off so the iPad auto connected to the router Amplifi. When system Amplifi was turned back on I had to disconnect then reconnect WiFi on the iPad. Definitely worth people checking in Devices on the Amplifi app and seeing if the system connection sounds better for them.

[matthias]

Maybe worth considering too is that the iPad is receiving from Spotify and is sending to Källa.
So for receiving from Spotify the best might be connecting to the Amplifi nearest to the modem and for sending the best might be connecting to the Amplifi nearest to Källa. Not sure if this can be arranged in settings.

[tokenbrit]

There are so many variables involved in different networks, I think it’s always going to be the case of finding what works best for you in your network.

Another factor to consider. In the Amplifi network which Amplifi is your source IPad device connected to? My iPad can see both Amplifis but I reckon it sounds better connected to the one nearest the system. Look in Devices in the Amplifi app to check.

Also what about setting a fixed IP for the source iPad?

If the second Amplifi is next to the HiFi, will the iPad automatically connect to it? Similarly, if the iPad is closer to the router Amplifi, then will it connect to that instead? Since you’re hearing a sound difference, this may be something to be aware of and could be an explanation for some of the differences people are hearing?

Yes it should connect to the stronger signal. What happened was I turned the system Amplifi off so the iPad auto connected to the router Amplifi. When system Amplifi was turned back on I had to disconnect then reconnect WiFi on the iPad. Definitely worth people checking in Devices on the Amplifi app and seeing if the system connection sounds better for them.

Is there a way to specify preferred Mesh/access point by MAC address, on the iPad? I don't see a way but may just not be seeing it, and it probably misses the benefit of a mesh wifi... I set a fixed IP on my iPad, WAP, & 108T just because, but haven't listened to fixed vs DHCP.

[tokenbrit]

For those with a home router between Amplifi(s) and modem/Internet, have you tried putting the hifi subnet/1st Amplifi in a DMZ if possible in settings on the home router?

[macrotech2]

If the second Amplifi is next to the HiFi, will the iPad automatically connect to it? Similarly, if the iPad is closer to the router Amplifi, then will it connect to that instead? Since you’re hearing a sound difference, this may be something to be aware of and could be an explanation for some of the differences people are hearing?

Yes it should connect to the stronger signal. What happened was I turned the system Amplifi off so the iPad auto connected to the router Amplifi. When system Amplifi was turned back on I had to disconnect then reconnect WiFi on the iPad. Definitely worth people checking in Devices on the Amplifi app and seeing if the system connection sounds better for them.

Is there a way to specify preferred Mesh/access point by MAC address, on the iPad? I don't see a way but may just not be seeing it, and it probably misses the benefit of a mesh wifi... I set a fixed IP on my iPad, WAP, & 108T just because, but haven't listened to fixed vs DHCP.

Not that I’ve seen. I just disconnected and reconnected iPad WiFi, then checked Devices in the Amplifi app.

[Spannko]

I think it’s possible to give each mesh access point a unique name so they can be accessed individually via the iPads WiFi settings.

https://help.amplifi.com/hc/en-us/arti ... 0010201854

[Spannko]

For those with a home router between Amplifi(s) and modem/Internet, have you tried putting the hifi subnet/1st Amplifi in a DMZ if possible in settings on the home router?

Yes, but I couldn’t get it to work.

[David Neel]

Spannko has very kindly sent me his pair of Amplifi HDs for experimentation.

My existing network is very simple: I have a Huawei 4G router which provides wifi for the flat, and a single wired connection for the hifi. It is powered separately from everything else. This router is wired to a GS108T v2, powered as per Fredrik's recommendations, which in turn is connected to Källa. All connections are 8.5ft BJC.

Huawei 4g router >> GS108T v2 >> Källa.

My first experiment was to introduce an Amplifi, powered next to the router, between the router and GS108T. This was wired with another 8.5ft BJC. Result: marginal sonic improvement, noticeable musicality loss. Note that the ipad was still connected to the router, not the Amplifi.

Huawei 4g router >> Amplifi HD >> GS108T v2 >> Källa.

Second experiment was to replace the GS108T with an Amplifi, this time powered from the GS108T power strip. Ipad still connected to the router wifi. Just NO! I quickly reinstated the GS108T.

Huawei 4g router >> Amplifi HD >> Källa.

Third experiment: remove Amplifi, but move the 4G router to the GS108T power strip. YES! I had tried this before, with Hakai, and found no discernable difference.

Tomorrow I hope to reconfigure the Amplifi so that the ipad goes via that rather than the router, to see whether it is an improvement. If so, more experimentation beckons!

[tokenbrit]

For those with a home router between Amplifi(s) and modem/Internet, have you tried putting the hifi subnet/1st Amplifi in a DMZ if possible in settings on the home router?

Yes, but I couldn’t get it to work.

Curious: my home router recognises the (static, 'WAN') IP of the hifi router & pre-populated the field in settings so I could just enable/disable the DMZ for that host... works either way :/

[tokenbrit]

Spannko has very kindly sent me his pair of Amplifi HDs for experimentation.

My existing network is very simple: I have a Huawei 4G router which provides wifi for the flat, and a single wired connection for the hifi. It is powered separately from everything else. This router is wired to a GS108T v2, powered as per Fredrik's recommendations, which in turn is connected to Källa. All connections are 8.5ft BJC.

Huawei 4g router >> GS108T v2 >> Källa.

My first experiment was to introduce an Amplifi, powered next to the router, between the router and GS108T. This was wired with another 8.5ft BJC. Result: marginal sonic improvement, noticeable musicality loss. Note that the ipad was still connected to the router, not the Amplifi.

Huawei 4g router >> Amplifi HD >> GS108T v2 >> Källa.

Second experiment was to replace the GS108T with an Amplifi, this time powered from the GS108T power strip. Ipad still connected to the router wifi. Just NO! I quickly reinstated the GS108T.

Huawei 4g router >> Amplifi HD >> Källa.

Third experiment: remove Amplifi, but move the 4G router to the GS108T power strip. YES! I had tried this before, with Hakai, and found no discernable difference.

Tomorrow I hope to reconfigure the Amplifi so that the ipad goes via that rather than the router, to see whether it is an improvement. If so, more experimentation beckons!

Good to understand the systematic approach - thanks for sharing.
Did you configure one or two subnets with Huawei & Amplifi? All Ethernet connections from router(s) through to Kalla so far, with the iPad on wifi, of course, but working your way stepwise towards to Fredrik's recommended mesh setup, if I follow correctly?
Looking forward to your findings & thoughts with 2 Amplifi HDs... curious how you'll configure the 2 routers, and whether you'll need/find the DMZ settings on the Huawei to help the sonics &/or music.

[David Neel]

Good to understand the systematic approach - thanks for sharing.
Did you configure one or two subnets with Huawei & Amplifi? All Ethernet connections from router(s) through to Kalla so far, with the iPad on wifi, of course, but working your way stepwise towards to Fredrik's recommended mesh setup, if I follow correctly?
Looking forward to your findings & thoughts with 2 Amplifi HDs... curious how you'll configure the 2 routers, and whether you'll need/find the DMZ settings on the Huawei to help the sonics &/or music.

I've not yet configured any subnets. I've not yet been able to access the Amplifi setup, and I don't (yet?) understand subnets. Thinking through last night's experiments, if I've got the best results with the router on the GS108T power strip, logic suggests that anything inserted between the two will also sound best powered from that strip. So the two Amplifis will be side-by-side, so I'm struggling to understand how they could sound better than a single unit? And why would even one sound better than none? Only one way to find out!

[macrotech2]

Amplifi by default creates its own subnet.

[David Neel]

Amplifi by default creates its own subnet.

Thanks!

[tokenbrit]

... Thinking through last night's experiments, if I've got the best results with the router on the GS108T power strip, logic suggests that anything inserted between the two will also sound best powered from that strip. So the two Amplifis will be side-by-side, so I'm struggling to understand how they could sound better than a single unit? And why would even one sound better than none? Only one way to find out!

Your Huawei 4g setup may be different* - I understood the benefit to come from WiFi between Amplifi HDs so not sharing an electrical/ground via Ethernet with the router. As such only the 2nd Amplifi needs to be plugged in with the 108T... Fredrik did post an image for clarification.

* because it's already receiving wireless Internet, just plugging it in with your 108T** may be all you need.

** you likely wouldn't have noticed the benefit with Hakai because of its own PS ground (loop) issues...

[Defender]

maybe in your system it doesnt because yours is pretty straightforward
in mine the is:
1 cable from modem/router to wall connector
2 inwall cat6 cable about 5-6meter
3 cable from wall connector to the GS108

so a lot of variables possible which are reduced by air transfer

[u252agz]

Spannko has very kindly sent me his pair of Amplifi HDs for experimentation.

My existing network is very simple: I have a Huawei 4G router which provides wifi for the flat, and a single wired connection for the hifi. It is powered separately from everything else. This router is wired to a GS108T v2, powered as per Fredrik's recommendations, which in turn is connected to Källa. All connections are 8.5ft BJC.

Huawei 4g router >> GS108T v2 >> Källa.

My first experiment was to introduce an Amplifi, powered next to the router, between the router and GS108T. This was wired with another 8.5ft BJC. Result: marginal sonic improvement, noticeable musicality loss. Note that the ipad was still connected to the router, not the Amplifi.

Huawei 4g router >> Amplifi HD >> GS108T v2 >> Källa.

Second experiment was to replace the GS108T with an Amplifi, this time powered from the GS108T power strip. Ipad still connected to the router wifi. Just NO! I quickly reinstated the GS108T.

Huawei 4g router >> Amplifi HD >> Källa.

Third experiment: remove Amplifi, but move the 4G router to the GS108T power strip. YES! I had tried this before, with Hakai, and found no discernable difference.

Tomorrow I hope to reconfigure the Amplifi so that the ipad goes via that rather than the router, to see whether it is an improvement. If so, more experimentation beckons!

Your existing set up sounds quite good - I assume the Router and GS108T are powered from the same power strip, and that this power strip shares the same wall socket as the strip for the HIfi .

Interesting to see if the Amplifis improve on this.


Mine is not so good, as the first bit is like yours - Router to GS108T; but then I have a non BJC Cat 5e to the wall ethernet socket and then a very very long 'in the wall cat5' to the wall socket in the Hi Fi room. And then a non BJC cat 5 to Kalla!

I am waiting for the last two BJC 6a Cables to arrive so that I can WiFI from the first Mesh unit( linked to the router) to the second Mesh in the HiFi room and then use BJC 6as to a GS108T and then Kalla in the Hi Fi room .ie much more like Fredriks set up.

[beck]

When I read about the performance differences I always think that maybe it is not so much the used configuration but more the change in vibration patterns that we are listening to and that it gives different musical outcome.
At least I think it could be part of what we experience! :-)

[tokenbrit]

When I read about the performance differences I always think that maybe it is not so much the used configuration but more the change in vibration patterns that we are listening to and that it gives different musical outcome.
At least I think it could be part of what we experience! :-)

Including electrical "vibration patterns" in the power & signal feeds, potentially... ;)

[lejonklou]

I understood the benefit to come from WiFi between Amplifi HDs so not sharing an electrical/ground via Ethernet with the router.

No. I never said there is any benefit from separation with WiFi. Still it seems a lot of people have created a mental model around this. Please erase that model right now!

I did speculate about the reasons why my two Amplifi setup sounds so good, and I regret that. Better to share only solid findings and strong patterns.

What I have found is this:

* The setup I am using with two Amplifi sounds fantastic at my place. A handful of others have confirmed it works really great for them too - and they have been using both Källa, HAKAI and Linn DS.

* Powering the unit that feeds the switch with data from the same power strip as the switch appears to be very positive (so far no contrary experiences reported).

* Increasing the complexity of the local network in the chain from internet to Källa is rarely a good thing. Every unit adds a “signature”. Keep this in mind when experimenting and if presented with many possible solutions, try the simplest ones first.

[tokenbrit]

I understood the benefit to come from WiFi between Amplifi HDs so not sharing an electrical/ground via Ethernet with the router.

No. I never said there is any benefit from separation with WiFi. Still it seems a lot of people have created a mental model around this. Please erase that model right now!

... Better to share only solid findings and strong patterns.

Apologies - I stand corrected... (should I consider myself grounded? :)

[Defender]

I also speculated about the grounding be the issue but the BJ are having no metal at the plug and to my knowledge the pins at the ethernet ports are only signal so there is a separation from ground as soon as you use a ethernet cable without screen at the plug - microconnect is different in this case compared to BJ

[matthias]

I also speculated about the grounding be the issue but the BJ are having no metal at the plug and to my knowledge the pins at the ethernet ports are only signal so there is a separation from ground as soon as you use a ethernet cable without screen at the plug - microconnect is different in this case compared to BJ

Yes, it makes sense to use only unshielded (UTP) ethernet cables with plastic plugs at both ends.