General Discussion about Källa

[Rudeman]

streamer with the only option of streaming from spotify

Not the only option but Källa is optimized for playback from streaming services.
I like that but YMMV.
At least David Need found that music from a NAS is not far behind.

Matt

You right, i meant streaming services, not only spotify.

[matthias]

Källa is not optimized for Spotify.

Thanks for clarification, but probably the most used streaming service in development of Källa(?)

Matt

[sunbeamgls]

Most people in "audiophile circles" do not regard Spotify as high quality in comparison to other streaming services and most probably will not appreciate a streamer which is optimized for the replay of Spotify.
And people who typically listen to Spotify with their smartphones can not afford or do not buy a Källa for other reasons.
All "audiophiles" of the world together are "niche" in comparison to all people who listen to Spotify.

Matt

We keep waiting for the promised uncompressed version... its been about 2 years in the waiting room so far.

[matthias]

We keep waiting for the promised uncompressed version... its been about 2 years in the waiting room so far.

Yes, I am waiting as well. With every new version of my Spotify MacOS app I am looking for the "hifi" setting.
I really hope that Spotify Hifi will be at least as musical as the lossy Spotify.

Matt

[David Neel]

At least David Neel found that music from a NAS is not far behind.
Matt

This deserves a clarification. The day that Spannko and Charlie1 visited, we tried all sorts of combinations of KDS/2, Källa, Spotify and LSNAS, and I reported the LSNAS being not as far behind as I'd been led to expect. Once Källa burned in a bit, that gap widened.

Before Källa departed for pastures new, a final visitor heard the system. I played Love Will Tear Us Apart, from the album Ragged Kingdom by June Tabor and Oysterband. First on LP12, he commented that it was beautiful, but where had the anger in the words gone? With Spotify and Källa, he said, ah, I get it, it's melancholy. From LSNAS it was just lifeless.

OOPS!!! CORRECTION: We didn't play that track from LSNAS. I was thinking of the Tord Gustavsen track, Eg Veit I Himmerik Ei Borg. That was where Spotify trounced LSNAS.

[matthias]

Thank you David

Matt

[Arjen]

At least David Neel found that music from a NAS is not far behind.
Matt

This deserves a clarification. The day that Spannko and Charlie1 visited, we tried all sorts of combinations of KDS/2, Källa, Spotify and LSNAS, and I reported the LSNAS being not as far behind as I'd been led to expect. Once Källa burned in a bit, that gap widened.

Before Källa departed for pastures new, a final visitor heard the system. I played Love Will Tear Us Apart, from the album Ragged Kingdom by June Tabor and Oysterband. First on LP12, he commented that it was beautiful, but where had the anger in the words gone? With Spotify and Källa, he said, ah, I get it, it's melancholy. From LSNAS it was just lifeless.

Three musketeers (plus one). Good job you!

[Defender]

David - as the LSNAS has not changed it probably means the Källa has improved since or do you have a different explanation. And you now actually say the LP12 couldnt reveal as much emotion as the Källa does? I want to make sure that I am not reading something into your statement.

[Defender]

Is it also possible that those who find an existing digital product musically engaging could find it a backwards step for exactly the same reasons those who have stuck with analogue find it a breakthrough?
This question is a bit devil's advocate, as I think this is unlikely, but its a scenario that might be possible.

FYI I've now heard Kalla, I'll write up something soonish, but I'll get to it after writing about the UK Audio Show which is pretty lengthy.

I tried to wrap my head around what you say I and I think I understand what you mean - my take on that is that if that is the case that it is because of different preferences. If both preferences (the one which make ones who like digital and the ones which like analogue) are met with a new product than it is unlikely it is a backward step.
I am interested and looking forward to your accessment.
It might also make the accessment more subjective if you know you hear a digital source or an analogue source.
I like to look at it like comparing black boxes - in the end it doesnt matter if in the black box is a digital source or an analogue source - what is more musical is better in the end.

[matthias]

From LSNAS it was just lifeless.

Could it be that a NAS is like a coffin for music?

Matt

[matthias]

I like to look at it like comparing black boxes - in the end it doesnt matter if in the black box is a digital source or an analogue source - what is more musical is better in the end.

When the black box (with grey letters) for 6k offers a better musicality than the black box for 20k....... then it does matter a lot (at least for me)

Matt

[Discodave]

I like to look at it like comparing black boxes - in the end it doesnt matter if in the black box is a digital source or an analogue source - what is more musical is better in the end.

When the black box (with grey letters) for 6k offers a better musicality than the black box for 20k....... then it does matter a lot (at least for me)

Matt

100%

[lejonklou]

Källa is not optimized for Spotify.

Thanks for clarification, but probably the most used streaming service in development of Källa(?)

In the final year, yes.

In the beginning it was all NAS replay. Tried Tidal but never felt that it was particularly involving. Then Google Music unexpectedly turned out to be quite good. Spotify was the worst of the bunch back then. Quboz was perhaps the best but at the time I didn't try it. NAS replay was the only source that felt good enough.

Then Spotify improved, a lot. Suddenly it was the most musical streaming service, despite not being lossless. Tried Quboz which is also good. Apple entered the scene, not great at first but seemed to improve after a while. Haven't listened to Tidal for a very long time, perhaps they've improved?

[jajo]

I think the discussion about analogue vs digital in terms of preference is rather confusing. Isn't the goal just to reach the highest level of musical understanding regardless of technology used? Do people have such a strong bias towards a specific technology that the technology itself affects the musical understanding? I would be surprised if any music lover would disagree about which equipment gives the best enjoyment regardless of their preference in vinyl vs flac vs Spotify etc.

I get that it is possible to dislike pops and noise from a vinyl setup and that digital can sound "clinical" to the point where it almost become lifeless. But isn't that just poorly performing equipment? I think that when a source performs at the top level, you stop thinking about the characteristics of analogue vs digital and just enjoy the music. I don't think it needs to be more complicated than that.

Källa does give more of a "perfectly setup LP12"-feeling than a "Klimax DS"-feeling. But I don't think it has anything to do with sound character. I think the reason is the musical performance which was previously impossible to reach without a well-tuned LP12.

I've been playing digital in my own system for the last ten years (mainly for convenience) and owned the very best digital streamers. In my basement I have over 2000 vinyl records. Many times during my time with digital only, I've had this gut feeling that I should probably get an LP12 again. Something was missing. With Källa, I no longer feel this way. It is like digital has taken that critical step to ease my restless mind.

[macrotech2]

Have I missed any theories for why NAS replay isn’t as good as streaming services? Does it depend on how the NAS delivers the stream? Wav or flac, always padded to 24 bit or natural bit lengths as MinimServer allows? Is there some inherent difference in the stream from a NAS compared to steaming services?

Very interested to hear suggestions as should be getting my hands on the beast soon.

[matthias]

Haven't listened to Tidal for a very long time, perhaps they've improved?

I dislike Tidal because of their affiliation with MQA and do not want to support it.

Matt

[matthias]

It is like digital has taken that critical step to ease my restless mind.

Agree completely with your post jajo.

Matt

[Arjen]

But isn’t that with every streamer device you are always dependent on the quality of the streaming services source which you do not have control over and can be changed for good or bad, unlike with analogue that to a some extent you can choose source and devices yourself?

[matthias]

But isn’t that with every streamer device you are always dependent on the quality of the streaming services source which you do not have control over and can be changed for good or bad, unlike with analogue that to a some extent you can choose source and devices yourself?

How do you control the quality of your LPs? You are dependent on quality you get. It is very similar to streaming services.
Like a ranking of the best LP versions there is a ranking of the best streaming services. You can change the services every month for the better one (if you want).

Matt

[Arjen]

The recording is not in our control. Thats true. the pressing neither. But once you have your vinyl, you can handle and treat it in your own way, clean it if needed. What a streaming service gives you is out of that control, as I understand from the words of Fredrik. In the beginning was spotify bad to Kalla, in the end the best in his remarks. And if the one streamer matches good or bad with different streaming services performance can alter over the years, dependent on theirs and not yours. Am I wrong or right?

[matthias]

The recording is not in our control. Thats true. the pressing neither. But once you have your vinyl, you can handle and treat it in your own way, clean it if needed. What a streaming service gives you is out of that control, as I understand from the words of Fredrik. In the beginning was spotify bad to Kalla, in the end the best in his remarks.

I understand your point.
You never have perfect control, neither in analogue nor in digital. But my impression is with streaming services (Spotify) that they improve over time. When you have bought your LP you have a certain fixed quality. When the streaming service gets more musical you get a better quality without changing the hardware. That is an advantage in my view.

Matt

[Arjen]

The recording is not in our control. Thats true. the pressing neither. But once you have your vinyl, you can handle and treat it in your own way, clean it if needed. What a streaming service gives you is out of that control, as I understand from the words of Fredrik. In the beginning was spotify bad to Kalla, in the end the best in his remarks.

I understand your point.
You never have perfect control, neither in analogue nor in digital. But my impression is with streaming services (Spotify) that they improve over time. When you have bought your LP you have a certain fixed quality. When the streaming service gets more musical you get a better quality without changing the hardware. That is an advantage in my view.

Matt

An advantage if the service is more musical and the match with the streamer stays the same. But is it that the likes of Spotify has the Master as source or just like a vinyl record a derived source? If that so than the streaming service is a mediator as your turntable is. And if I understand this forum and philosophies of the likes of Linn and Naim, as a user you can have control of your upgrading, unlike the streaming services.

[matthias]

If that so than the streaming service is a mediator as your turntable is.

No, the analogy is:

Album from streaming service including the app in the CP = LP
Källa = LP12

Matt

[tokenbrit]

At least David Neel found that music from a NAS is not far behind.
Matt

This deserves a clarification. The day that Spannko and Charlie1 visited, we tried all sorts of combinations of KDS/2, Källa, Spotify and LSNAS, and I reported the LSNAS being not as far behind as I'd been led to expect. Once Källa burned in a bit, that gap widened.

Before Källa departed for pastures new, a final visitor heard the system. I played Love Will Tear Us Apart, from the album Ragged Kingdom by June Tabor and Oysterband. First on LP12, he commented that it was beautiful, but where had the anger in the words gone? With Spotify and Källa, he said, ah, I get it, it's melancholy. From LSNAS it was just lifeless.

Did you compare LSNAS w/ KDS vs Kalla? I'd be interested to know if Kalla got more from your LSNAS than the KDS, even if it wasn't as musical as with Spotify...

[matthias]

It would be very interesting to know how Källa performs on the new BORD from Harmonihyllan:

bord-lp12-800.png